2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vandevska]

Alina Gorbachyova has broken her leg and is only back on the ice for a week or so.
Her trainer still plans to compete in Stages 4 and 5 of Russian Cup.

She posted a picture and story on her IG Stories, but these are gone now.

With a recently broken leg?!

I suppose, considering the previous surprisingly similar cases, that the only thing you need for people to start claiming your PCS has improved is to move from Eteri to Plushenko (or basically anywhere else).

And also the only thing you need for people to start claiming everything has regressed even in visibly improved areas.

What skaters are trash talking? You know this how you never see any skaters from TT ever say anything about anybody?

I didn't say anything about skaters. I was talking about coaches.

Okay.

Clearly shows how much you can't be bothered to actually discuss.

 

[Kittosuni]

I wholly agree with Backoutside's posts, but here's another thing I have to say about PCS - I find it astonishing that skaters usually have PCS scores across all categories so close to each other. Because in reality, most of these scores, save for IN and CO which seem to go hand in hand in some aspects, are completely independent from each other. How well you emote and convey feelings to the audience have nothing to do with the amount of transitions. One can excel in PE with next to no transitions, and they can do just as well with a program packed with transitions. For example, a lot of Eteri girls's programs deserve high scores in IN and PE because the skaters do extremely well with musical accents, building up speed for climaxes, and conveying emotion to audience members. They also deserve high scores in TR, but for a completely different reason. But their scores for SS and CO often fluctuate. Like last year, Alyona deserved high SS scores, but Anna and Sasha don't necessarily deserve high SS scores. Anna's CO last season should be pretty high (though I have to rant again about how Daniil made use of one out of like twenty musical accents in Firebird), but this season it should be lower. Not because she isn't doing well, because I actually really like her programs, but because 1. the choreography for Perfume and for Elegie are very similar and 2. because they literally changed the second half of the FS music but kept the same choreography. So, I don't understand why a skater must get all 9s in PCS or all 8s in PCS, or only low 9s and high 8s, because in reality, the spread should be much greater.

I have been told by a judge that in a perfect world the SS is the most important in Judging PCS because it affects every category.

You can have bazillion of transitions but if you have poor SS you will not be able to execute it in a great quality.

Poor skating skills can also limit your choice of movements thus affecting CO, PE, IN.

Stamina and physical fitness also plays a big role in executing SS which was evident during the backloading days of Russia.

A FALL should drag down the scoring for EVERY category in PCS because it just shows that you are not performing in an optimal manner.

But then again we don't live in a perfect world and more importantly at the end of the day figure skating is still a subjective sport even with the amount of criteria ISU lays down to make the sport "objective".

That is just the nature of the sport.

 

[plushyfan]

The only way Aleksandra would have retained the "Eteri bonus" and get higher due to her improvements, with a coach of no record like Plushkenko, is if she were already a dominant champion. If she had won the GP final and Euros and silver at nationals as Alena had done perhaps she would have. But instead she was third at all three.

Plushkenko should know the politics of skating but perhaps he does and simply is going after PR. Or maybe he doesn't and is just talking as he is due to ego

Due his ago? I like if the posters have no real argument take out the "ego" card. Boring. No, he did it for Sasha! He said Kamila was better in general just the gap was too big. He said in the interview all schools should be evaluated equally and realistically and will work on this. I agree with him. Don't you? Can you denie there is Eteri bonus?

 

[flanker]

And also the only thing you need for people to start claiming everything has regressed even in visibly improved areas.

Nope. I get that particular people consider Sasha's components have improved vastly and that the rival skaters don't deserve their score, because "experts" say that. Yes, I really get it. Fine. After reading that 456times my dog knows that. She just said to me it's too much admiration for one week already.

 

[Skatesocs]

Clearly shows how much you can't be bothered to actually discuss.

Absolutely. You should draw more conclusions based on little information, it's a good thing to do - absolutely forms a great discussion (you keep using that word... I don't think it means what you think it means) and you're perfectly capable of it.

(Haven't yet heard from you how bringing up someone's injury in 2020 isn't shutting down a discussion about 2019 worlds, but that's okay, I like getting responses that are at least halfway intelligent in general).

 

[Edwin]

With a recently broken leg?!

Yes, last week she posted in IG Story with her lying in a cast of sorts and a message of thanks to her supporters saying she will put her feet on the ice the next day.

There is fractures and fractures, a hairline crack is also fracture. Alina in her IG was a happy kid enjoying her quarantine training camp which allowed swimming in the lake even.

The timeline is a bit confusing, because here is Alina on holiday training camp in Sochi from a posting a week old:


Kids heal fast and well. But still, hoping for the best and no pushing, only common sense in her trainer, Sof'ya Fedchenko.

Her "Triumph" academy is also private, all costs on the parents and some sponsors.

They have done lots of live streams from training, and the regime is harsh and strict, this is a serious academy. But the girls like to work hard.


Alina is thirteen now, so I have started a results page in the section.

 

[Skatesocs]

Anyway, @Backoutside I think you should move the discussion to a new thread. I don't think I understood what you were saying or I didn't communicate my own point properly (hence... "okay" )and I think I'd rather discuss that on a new thread than here for obvious reasons. I'd ask CSG but he already discussed this with me a couple of times before.

 

[FelineFairy]

I have been told by a judge that in a perfect world the SS is the most important in Judging PCS because it affects every category.

You can have bazillion of transitions but if you have poor SS you will not be able to execute it in a great quality.

Poor skating skills can also limit your choice of movements thus affecting CO, PE, IN.

Stamina and physical fitness also plays a big role in executing SS which was evident during the backloading days of Russia.

A FALL should drag down the scoring for EVERY category in PCS because it just shows that you are not performing in an optimal manner.

But then again we don't live in a perfect world and more importantly at the end of the day figure skating is still a subjective sport even with the amount of criteria ISU lays down to make the sport "objective".

That is just the nature of the sport.

There was an unrivalled skater in the past, never ever beaten in compulsory figures, which I hope you agree reflects her perfect SS. Beatrix Schuba. At the same time her interpretation and performance were never even close to her skating skills. And Janet Lynn, competing with her at that time, was the total opposite. So I do think that skaters with excellent IN and PE can have poor SS, and vice versa. I really don't want to "judge" the brilliant Russian ladies of today, I love many of them but I can see how different their achievements in different components are. And I do agree with Backoutside's post.

 

[Skatesocs]

There was an unrivalled skater in the past, never ever beaten in compulsory figures, which I hope you agree reflects her perfect SS. Beatrix Schuba. At the same time her interpretation and performance were never even close to her skating skills. And Janet Lynn, competing with her at that time, was the total opposite. So I do think that skaters with excellent IN and PE can have poor SS, and vice versa. I really don't want to "judge" the brilliant Russian ladies of today, I love many of them but I can see how different their achievements in different components are. And I do agree with Backoutside's post.

I don't think Lynn is an example of poor SS. Figures just meant you were good at figures. I agree with your general point, but I don't think Lynn is the example you want.

 

[FelineFairy]

I don't think Lynn is an example of poor SS. Figures just meant you were good at figures. I agree with your general point, but I don't think Lynn is the example you want.

Oh, not poor but inferior to Schuba. I liked Lynn much, much more, but figures do show SS.

 

[plushyfan]

Sasha is definitely working hard on these aspects of her skating, but I think a lot of these changes come from her, not her coaching team.
There's a bit of maturity that came from being a year older and life changes.
There's also the packaging. Sasha's programs this season are more "serious" or more similar to other senior ladies, while in the last season, they were more different and unique, which is not always appreciated by the judges and it's sometimes seen as juniorish.

I definitely saw Sasha following the music more and being more expressive in the short program than the free, but I still find it strange that people say she was lowballed in PCS there when she had some noticeable mistakes and both Kamila and Daria were practically perfect. If Sasha had also been clean in the SP, we could then compare their scores more objectively.
Maybe in the next competition it will be possible.

of, course...They didn't work at all. Sasha lives with Eteri's work..I would like to see that Eteri fans would not have cataracts in their eyes. Sasha worked hard with her new coach team she became better in all aspect and you can't take it from her!

 

[Skatesocs]

Oh, not poor but inferior to Schuba. I liked Lynn much, much more, but figures do show SS.

Well I hope the discussion is moved (maybe I'll make the thread). I know some people on the website lived through the figures era, and they never visit this thread. In general, I'd say figures were a skill, which wasn't necessarily the kind of Skating Skill you needed to show in free programs.

 

[Orlov]

Also, re Sasha's PCS. If she was constantly getting 34s internationally with her former presentation skills, then it absolutely makes no sense for her to only get 34 here, since she improved a lot. The 34 itself makes sense yes, but if you are to say (and I'm not sure if anyone is saying this, but just in case) Kamila deserves 37 because she improved, then Sasha deserves 34 or higher because she improved too.

Sasha was given 35 PCS. 34.96 much closer to 35 than to the 34

 

[esteticlove]

of, course...They didn't work at all. Sasha lives with Eteri's work..I would like to see that Eteri fans would not have cataracts in their eyes. Sasha worked hard with her new coach team she became better in all aspect and you can't take it from her!

She didn't get better in all aspects, as you are trying to convince us. I am not saying this negatively, it is just naive to think that is possible to achieve this over the summer, especially with the even more limited ice time (because of the pandemic). Where we should actually praise Pluschy for succeeding is that they are on the way to stabilize her 3A. Also, that they are training on a 4Lo. Especially the latter could probably be his first own "achievement" on Sasha's improvement.

Everything else is very subjective, I don't think that Team Pluschenko suddenly made her more artistic or anything. Don't compare with her old programs from last season, but with her last Ex-Program from this year. You'll see that her artistic abilities were already showing there, that's why I started to think that it is more about Sasha wanting and willing to be artistic. Because otherwise she is capable of it. Here, I really am not implying that Pluschy didn't do anything and is all thanks to Eteri. Not at all. I am just trying to explain that this HUGE change is not evident, mainly because it hasn't been sooo long since tha change of coaches.

 

[plushyfan]

She didn't get better in all aspects, as you are trying to convince us. I am not saying this negatively, it is just naive to think that is possible to achieve this over the summer, especially with the even more limited ice time (because of the pandemic). Where we should actually praise Pluschy for succeeding is that they are on the way to stabilize her 3A. Also, that they are training on a 4Lo. Especially the latter could probably be his first own "achievement" on Sasha's improvement.

Everything else is very subjective, I don't think that Team Pluschenko suddenly made her more artistic or anything. Don't compare with her old programs from last season, but with her last Ex-Program from this year. You'll see that her artistic abilities were already showing there, that's why I started to think that it is more about Sasha wanting and willing to be artistic. Because otherwise she is capable of it. Here, I really am not implying that Pluschy didn't do anything and is all thanks to Eteri. Not at all. I am just trying to explain that this HUGE change is not evident, mainly because it hasn't been sooo long since tha change of coaches.

sure...Eteri gave her everything and Trusova didn't work anything during the 5 months at all.
She grew a lot, she became more feminine, the center of gravity shifted completely elsewhere.... They overcame this we can say Sasha overcome the puberty succesfully . They have changed the technique a bit, etc...All of those are Eteri's results! How ridiculous is this!

 

[Skatesocs]

sure...Eteri gave her everything and Trusova didn't work anything during the 5 months at all.
She grew a lot, she became more feminine, the center of gravity shifted completely elsewhere.... They overcame this we can say Sasha overcome the puberty succesfully . They have changed the technique a bit, etc...All of those are Eteri's results! How ridiculous is this!

? Are you sure you understood what they're saying? They clearly credited Plushenko.

 

[esteticlove]

sure...Eteri gave her everything and Trusova didn't work anything during the 5 months at all.
She grew a lot, she became more feminine, the center of gravity shifted completely elsewhere.... They overcame this we can say Sasha overcome the puberty succesfully . They have changed the technique a bit, etc...All of those are Eteri's results! How ridiculous is this!

Plushyfan, we have been fighting a lot during the past days, but in this particular discussion I was stating exactly the opposite to what you understood. I gave credit to Pluschenko for Sasha's 3A and 4Lo. It sounds as a small achievement, but I am sure this required countless hours of work. I still consider Evgeni a great choice for Sasha for her technical abilites. I see (positive) changes in her technique, but not in her artistry. And I also tried to explain that, in my opinion, the latter is not to be blamed on any (old or new) coaches.

 

[Edwin]

some plugging here, but it was often voiced, Valeriya Shulskaya's dresses were exquisite and winners in the department


Valeriya seems is sponsored by the Atelier Axel.

 

[Edwin]

Plushyfan, we have been fighting a lot during the past days, but in this particular discussion I was stating exactly the opposite to what you understood. I gave credit to Pluschenko for Sasha's 3A and 4Lo. It sounds as a small achievement, but I am sure this required countless hours of work. I still consider Evgeni a great choice for Sasha for her technical abilites. I see (positive) changes in her technique, but not in her artistry. And I also tried to explain that, in my opinion, the latter is not to be blamed on any (old or new) coaches.

And it was most likely Mikhailov who did all the work, skating after Aleksandra in the harness while she jumped, fell, jumped again, and again and again. Plyushchenko's titanium spine? Yet he unashamedly steals his staff's credit and their contracts are probably drawn up precisely like that.

 

[Tolstoj]

The only way Aleksandra would have retained the "Eteri bonus" and get higher due to her improvements, with a coach of no record like Plushkenko, is if she were already a dominant champion. If she had won the GP final and Euros and silver at nationals as Alena had done perhaps she would have. But instead she was third at all three.

Plushkenko should know the politics of skating but perhaps he does and simply is going after PR. Or maybe he doesn't and is just talking as he is due to ego

Well one thing is knowing the politics, the other is accepting them which i don't think anyone would accept since that hurts everyone but the main beneficiaries.

If Trusova won GPF or Euros, not much would have changed, I still remember when Pogorilaya won silver at GPF in 2016, and then few weeks after at Nationals she was fourth because Russia inflated Sotskova's scores due to CSKA bonus, which then led to Pogorilaya's meltdown constantly on the verge of losing her spot despite the international results, and Sotskova's trips to Euros, Worlds, and Olympics which have never been a huge success. What a plan!

So Plushenko is right to call out the nonsense whenever it happens, and it's not the only one who does this.

Then show the results at international competition, they all have a chance to win with a fair judging.