2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating | Page 534 | Golden Skate

2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

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A question regarding the Russian Cup ice, is there like something wrong with it? I feel like so many skaters are stumbling or making tiny mistakes in steps that don't usually happen? It happened to Anya, and Alyona (who has great SS, so that can't be the issue), I think I even noticed it in Petrosyan's program last stage.
 
From what I've seen, and I only watched her at her last cup event, Petrosyan is very expressive in her face (reminds me of Anna) and her movements are dramatic, (maybe similar to Daria). But I find she's skating on top of the music - she has great commitment to her movements but they look very rehearsed and sometimes I find her ahead/behind her music, even in the SP, without the awareness to react to it. While she has these big expressive movements, imo there are no changes in her posture or upper body that comes from feeling the musical changes (in both accents and phrasing); she's performing the theme/character but not the actual music. On the other hand, in all the performances I've seen from Akatieva: Ice Age, last season, and this year's Mulan, she's always been so responsive to the music in her body movements and the small details. She doesn't have the big facial expressions but I think she can work on that as I seen an improvement in her SP. Maybe Petrosyan will be able to showcase this with future programs that don't just depend on more dramatic movements, but I don't see it yet.

Regarding spins, I think Zhilina is the best currently. Petrosyan spins like Anna did in novice, very flexible and fast but also uncontrolled and a lot of travel. Anna has learned to control them (took a few season) and they're much more centred now, so I'm sure Petrosyan can as well. Akatieva spins like Alena did in juniors: not the most speed or flexibility, but still very good in both, and good control and centring.
I can see some of what you said in Petrosyan's programs, but just looking at their respective short programs this season, I think it's fairly obvious that Petrosyan's musicality, or ability to perform to the music is stronger than Akatieva's. Perhaps it's the fault of bad choreo (it might be actually, Petrosyan's choreo is surprisingly good), but you can clearly see that the way she skates in the step sequence carries a lot more power and passion than in the first half of the program, which aligns with how the music builds up dramatically as well. She also hits a good amount of musical accents in the skate, and her use of arms to build up the power in the second half of the step sequence is really nice too. In comparison, Akatieva's step sequence doesn't make use of musical accents nor the power of the music. Her arms are very graceful, but they lack any command of power, and this leads to her skating kind of looking way too soft in comparison to the loud music in the background. There are a lot of really nice parts of the SP (the hydroblade is really cool), but I just feel like just in the use of arms I can see a difference in the ability to interpret music. Of course, maybe this was the fault of the choreography, or perhaps one can argue that you should use graceful arms while the background is blasting jazz and powerful singing, but I just find that odd. Also in relation to how the program builds, both their programs are designed in a similar way - the beginning is less powerful but grows to a climax in the step sequence, but had I turned off the music, I wouldn't have been able to tell from Akatieva's step sequence that the music had reached a climax, but in Petrosyan's I can tell. But again, this is all my opinion, and I can understand that perhaps the SP isn't Akatieva's best program or it is the fault of the choreo or the difference in SS, or as I have said before, perhaps this is just an interpretative choice. Overall, I just find Petrosyan a little more musical. But I do see that Akatieva has a very natural personality and charm on ice, huge improvement from last season where I found her skating very boring. I can see how Petrosyan's movements do seem very rehearsed and sometimes she does miss accents, but overall, at least in this particular style, I think she handles it better than Akatieva, musicality wise. Both great skaters though!
 
Mishin strikes me as being old enough not to bother with politicking (and not exactly influential either). He usually shies away from controversial media, unlike one of his ex-students... His trademark non-strategic choreo/jump layouts just make me think he gives short shrift to gaming the scoring system, let alone trying to bend their rules. Plus he has stated in the past that he prefers coaching men.

Rukavicin might be more likely, since he has quite a few young teen/early adult ladies who are lovely skaters but have been ousted from the top by their prepubertal compatriots - Nugumanova, Gubanova, Talalaikina, Leonova (if she hasn't retired yet). No other major SPB ladies' coaches come to mind.
I changed my opinion on Mishin since he practically ruined the career of the beautiful Lozko due to politiking. She was Alina‘s teammate from Izhevsk and, at the time, the more promising and talanted one. So Mishin took Lozko and refused Alina. After some time, Lozko felt she was going nowhere, so she moved to Moscow and was admited in Eteri‘s group. Mishin pulled some strings and the Fed told her father they have to go back to St. Petersburg. So, Lozko went back only to find herself neglected and blacklisted by Mishin, so she had huge difficulties finding another coach. At the end, her career ended before it really begun, while her less impressive teammate from Izhevsk went on to conquer the world.

I think Mishin blames Moscow for scooping the most talanted skaters and is no stranger to politiking. And he definitely is interested in coaching ladies. Before reading an interview with Lozko, I thought he was this good old man, a genuinely nice farherly figure, but he is not. I am tired of Eteri being portrayed as ruthless monster and Mishin as a nice teddy bear, when the reality is quite different. One just needs to compare the careers of Lozko and Zagitova, same age, same rink, only Lozko was more advanced for her age. Can‘t stop thinking how lucky Alina was that Mishin refused to take her... So he has noone to blame, he has ample opportunities to develop talent. And I‘ve never heard the „vicious“ Eteri trying to riun the career of an ex student. Yes, she expesses disappointment and sometimes says more than she should, but pulling strings to get the skater back or to blacklist her with other coaches is a whole new level of wrong.

Liza T is a huge talent and there is no excuse for the mediocre layouts and programs she gets, and the costly lack of attention to details.. Sometimes I think Liza is too loyal for her own good. And if Mishin is such a great technician, how come his other lady skaters cannot jump?

Sorry for the rant, but I think that much of the perception for Mishin is built on PR, not facts.

Edit: I am adding the link to Alisa Lozko‘s interview, in case anyone missed it.
 
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Pretty sure this has already been mentioned but the lift on Daria Sadkova’s jumps is just amazing. It almost looks as if she’s getting pulled up by a rod for some of them! I was so (pleasantly) surprised when I saw the double axel for the first time. What would it take for her to get a JGP next year?
 
Pretty sure this has already been mentioned but the lift on Daria Sadkova’s jumps is just amazing. It almost looks as if she’s getting pulled up by a rod for some of them! I was so (pleasantly) surprised when I saw the double axel for the first time. What would it take for her to get a JGP next year?
I like her, but her legs must have grown 10 inches since last Russian Stage Cup, lol.
Coordination probs ahead. :-/
 
Pretty sure this has already been mentioned but the lift on Daria Sadkova’s jumps is just amazing. It almost looks as if she’s getting pulled up by a rod for some of them! I was so (pleasantly) surprised when I saw the double axel for the first time. What would it take for her to get a JGP next year?
We discussed this JGP situation with Vilord right here just a few pages ago (530-531). If I recall correctly Russia has 14 spots to JGP. So either 2 spots to 7 girls OR 2 spots to 6 girls + 1 spot to 2 girls (so 8 girls in total).

It's a long way to go and things might change, but at the moment there are 5 clear favorites: Akatyeva, Samodelkina, Zhilina, Berestovskaya and Petrosyan. Then there's Muravyova, Gorbachova and Osokina. And Zakharova, maybe Sofia Vazhnova...

And then there's the option of keeping Maya at juniors. So yeah, plenty of competition.
 
We discussed this JGP situation with Vilord right here just a few pages ago (530-531). If I recall correctly Russia has 14 spots to JGP. So either 2 spots to 7 girls OR 2 spots to 6 girls + 1 spot to 2 girls (so 8 girls in total).

It's a long way to go and things might change, but at the moment there are 5 clear favorites: Akatyeva, Samodelkina, Zhilina, Berestovskaya and Petrosyan. Then there's Muravyova, Gorbachova and Osokina. And Zakharova, maybe Sofia Vazhnova...

And then there's the option of keeping Maya at juniors. So yeah, plenty of competition.
15 spots, one more is for Krasnoyarsk:

So, we can see seven girls with two entries and one girl with one entry, or some other combination. For instance, JGP in Krasnoyarsk is taking place in the middle of the JGP series, so till that time we can see whole nine girls and then six of them with the best chance for the final can have the second entry. That's one of the possibilities.
 
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Liza T is a huge talent and there is no excuse for the mediocre layouts and programs she gets, and the costly lack of attention to details..
Perhaps they don't earn big points under IJS, but I've enjoyed every single one of Liza's programs. Just because a program doesn't have 524 transitions per second doesn't it make it mediocre. It may not win, but maybe that's a problem with the system.

And regarding the layout...I feel like a broken record here, but I'm pretty sure Liza and Mishin work together on the layout and do as much as they can with it. Maybe you wish she could do two triple axles and multiple quads per free skate, but hey that's actually really really hard to do. Why do you think Sasha T, Anna S, Kamila and now Sofia A are so unusual?!
 
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I changed my opinion on Mishin since he practically ruined the career of the beautiful Lozko due to politiking. She was Alina‘s teammate from Izhevsk and, at the time, the more promising and talanted one. So Mishin took Lozko and refused Alina. After some time, Lozko felt she was going nowhere, so she moved to Moscow and was admited in Eteri‘s group. Mishin pulled some strings and the Fed told her father they have to go back to St. Petersburg. So, Lozko went back only to find herself neglected and blacklisted by Mishin, so she had huge difficulties finding another coach. At the end, her career ended before it really begun, while her less impressive teammate from Izhevsk went on to conquer the world.

I think Mishin blames Moscow for scooping the most talanted skaters and is no stranger to politiking. And he definitely is interested in coaching ladies. Before reading an interview with Lozko, I thought he was this good old man, a genuinely nice farherly figure, but he is not. I am tired of Eteri being portrayed as ruthless monster and Mishin as a nice teddy bear, when the reality is quite different. One just needs to compare the careers of Lozko and Zagitova, same age, same rink, only Lozko was more advanced for her age. Can‘t stop thinking how lucky Alina was that Mishin refused to take her... So he has noone to blame, he has ample opportunities to develop talent. And I‘ve never heard the „vicious“ Eteri trying to riun the career of an ex student. Yes, she expesses disappointment and sometimes says more than she should, but pulling strings to get the skater back or to blacklist her with other coaches is a whole new level of wrong.

Liza T is a huge talent and there is no excuse for the mediocre layouts and programs she gets, and the costly lack of attention to details.. Sometimes I think Liza is too loyal for her own good. And if Mishin is such a great technician, how come his other lady skaters cannot jump?

Sorry for the rant, but I think that much of the perception for Mishin is built on PR, not facts.

Edit: I am adding the link to Alisa Lozko‘s interview, in case anyone missed it.
This just reminded me that Alina was born in the same year as Gubanova, Nugumanova, Fedichkina, and Lozko. And until 2016, while the others were very well known for their huge talent (Gubanova was jumping 3Lz-3Lo at age 12, Fedichkina was very well rounded, and Nugumanova and Lozko were amazing spinners and performers), Alina was unremarkable at best. The anticipation for that JGP season (with Tsurskaya included) was really the first wave of the many super talented Russian juniors in the same year. It's crazy that out of all of them, only Alina made it to senior Worlds or even GPF. In addition to hard work and talent, luck really plays a huge part in sports. Alina was very lucky to have been rejected by Mishin, accepted my Eteri, and subsequently reaccepted after being kicked out, she might've otherwise had a very different career.

Weren't Nugumanova, Fedichkina, and Lozko all coached by Mishin at some point? To be fair, I think Nugumanova and Lozko had jump issues that would've been difficult to fix, but Fedichkina was a pretty good jumper IIRC. But Alina's jumps in novice were also a mess.
 
Just because a program doesn't have 524 transitions per second doesn't it make it mediocre.
But her skating skills aren't that great either though.

And regarding the layout...I feel like a broken record here, but I'm pretty sure Liza and Mishin work together on the layout and do as much as they can with it. Maybe you wish she could do two triple axles and multiple quads per free skate, but hey that's actually really really hard to do.
Okay. But her layouts even in the 2014-15 season were sub-optimal. I never used to understand why they didn't make her do 3Lz+3T in her LP at least. She was still doing +2A sequences. Just the season before that Sotnikova already did do a harder 7 triple layout in the LP.
 
But her skating skills aren't that great either though.


Okay. But her layouts even in the 2014-15 season were sub-optimal. I never used to understand why they didn't make her do 3Lz+3T in her LP at least. She was still doing +2A sequences. Just the season before that Sotnikova already did do a harder 7 triple layout in the LP.
You mean the season where she won everything? She was the World Champion! How sub-optimal could they be in such a case?

As for the 3Lz-3T, maybe she couldn't do it? I've said this before, but do people really and truly believe that Mishin sits at home, thinks to himself "Hmmm, how can I screw Liza's chances of winning this season? Oh! I know!" Because that's the only conclusion I can come to in the face of these complaints.
 
Veronika for me represents huge talent from technical perspective, but so far not much as someone who is interpreting the content of the music (I don't mean rhythm of the music) and theme of the program. If I would compare Sofia or Kamila to dancer or ballerina, Veronika would be a tumbler. Of course she is only 12, in two or three years it could be different.
Veronika a tumbler, huh? This just is such a misguided opinion, it couldn't be further from the truth. I'd suggest watching, for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01qV2ImxchA

I actually would say that of the three, Veronika's the most like a ballerina, moreso than Kamila, even.
You mean the season where she won everything? She was the World Champion! How sub-optimal could they be in such a case?
Suboptimal enough to do +2A in sequence, there's no optimal layout with +2A+SEQ. Or anything close to optimal with it. She was the world champion due to having 3A, not due to somehow optimizing her layout, in fact she lost some 5 TES due to it if we are to compare to optimal layouts.
 
You mean the season where she won everything? She was the World Champion! How sub-optimal could they be in such a case?
Sub-optimal enough for me to not understand why a skater with great jumps couldn't do a 3+3 harder than a 3T+3T. She didn't invest the energy into better spins or skating skills or programs than the ones she did. I really would like to see the skaters put their best foot forward. If Tuktamysheva wasn't capable of doing a 3A in the LP that season, well okay. But it doesn't explain why she didn't even do the hardest layout she could do that season. Nor does it really explain why she didn't train a 3Lz+3T that season, because there was no way she or Mishin or anyone else knew she wouldn't ever need one that season.

As for the 3Lz-3T, maybe she couldn't do it?
Yeah. Why?
 
Pretty sure this has already been mentioned but the lift on Daria Sadkova’s jumps is just amazing. It almost looks as if she’s getting pulled up by a rod for some of them! I was so (pleasantly) surprised when I saw the double axel for the first time. What would it take for her to get a JGP next year?
I'm impressed by her too. I hope she makes it to JGP next year.
 
Sub-optimal enough for me to not understand why a skater with great jumps couldn't do a 3+3 harder than a 3T+3T.
It wasn't just a 3T-3T it was a stunningly good 3T-3T, Liza has always been lowballed on GOE for her jumps, Kaetlyn Osmond (also a World Champion) also did an exceptional 3T-3T, but whereas she got praise, Liza was belittled and sneered at for doing the same. It's as if no matter what she does, she has to do more, always more. A 3A isn't enough, it has to be the best 3A, with ridiculous transitions in and out of it, otherwise it's no big deal. A skater does a 3A in practice and posters here fall over themselves to call her the second coming, Liza posts a 4T and people are like "Oh...is that all you have? Put it in a program or shut up." Why are people so hard on her here? Any time I try and say something positive about her all I get is "Oh her skating skills are so poor." "Oh, all she can do is jump." I know this isn't a fan fest, but can't people cut her some slack? Geeze.
Nor does it really explain why she didn't train a 3Lz+3T that season,
Maaaybe because she was working on keeping the 3A? She lost again the next season, so clearly it needs to be trained, I would assume she and Mishin made the decision to concentrate on that. As if she could have won all those titles without a 3A?

Even if she could do a 3Lz+3T I'm sure people would just say "Oh, why can't she do a 3Lz-3Loop? What a loser."
 
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