2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[CrazyKittenLady]

But the rules state that programs including falls cannot get higher tha 9.25 for SS, TT and CO and 8.75 for PE and IN.

Really, that's explicitly stated in the rules? Why then (and this might be a naive question) are the rules not applied? Kami got a -1 deduction according to the protocols, so the panel definitely recognized her fall as a fall. In that case, shouldn't the PCS scores then be capped automatically?

 

[chasingneverland]

ma gurl Maiia getting under appreciated, what else is new...
I think the reason Eteri keeps including a quad for Maiia, although it doesn’t appear as ready, is purely for political reasons. Maiia has been quite a bit behind both Daria and Kamila in terms of results due to inconsistency at her first junior season, not getting into JGPF, not making podium at JrNats. In order to be considered a top athlete and as a possible contender for Olympic spots, she needs to remind judges she has quads/working on them. Otherwise, it is too easy to get lost amongst numerous talented ladies. This helps her to stand out to some degree and be in the mind of judges as the girl who can potentially land quads and score a lot.

Yeah, it's the same scenario as why she kept pushing Alena to get her 3A (last year) and why she's pushing Daria to as well (this year). Especially as a junior, and the number 3 junior at that, it's easier for her to get lost in the crowd. But she was beautiful today and I hope she is tomorrow as well.

It's also crazy to think she could have had Anna, Sasha, Alena, Kamila, Daria, and Maiia all here (and potentially Alina and Evgenia too although I think that would be even less likely if Sasha and Alena had stayed.)

 

[Magill]

What?

What what?

 

[chasingneverland]

What has been seen today is nauseating ... I have never seen so much injustice in ladies' skating ... how is it possible that Nugumanova has been stolen in this way, a perfect skating, the best she has done since she left Mishin and placed sixth with a lower PCS than Trusova who was totally disconnected from music... in a world without COACH BONUS Nugumanova would have been 4th or 3rd.

All the complaining about Sasha's score. Lost in all that is how amazing Liza N did (and her PCS should have been even higher)!! She's in the final flight!! Really for all the complaining/handwringing about scores for the top 4, the ones who I think really should have been higher PCSwise and rewarded more were Liza N, Maiia, and Sofia. They were beautiful today and about as good as I've ever seen them.

 

[neusw]

Well, while there were definitely judging inconsistencies in this competition, since we’re on the subject, judges decided to give Daria, Sasha and Liza the same pcs.
Of course there’s reputation at play, and Liza and Sasha have way more to their name to earn their scores. I would say Dasha has a better vocabulary of movement, she uses her whole body in each transition, a lot of spirals, better edge quality, really good speed and overall performance quality. She has better spins than both too (but that’s not related to pcs).
I would also distinguish Sasha and Liza, I think Sasha should earn higher pcs than Liza, but they received pretty much identical PCS, which I don’t agree with.

I agree with you that there should be a much smaller PCS margin between Daria and Kamila. In terms of skating skills and one footed skating, Kamila is superior but not by a substantial margin, and I think Daria is actually more artistic/better at interpreting the music, but again the margin is not substantial. Unfortunately as with most federations, RusFed seems to score #1 senior/junior= 37+ PCS and #2/3=35+ PCS

 

[chasingneverland]

Anna does nothing but skate a rehearsed choreography. In another forum, a defender of your theory tried to prove how well Anna hears and uses the music by posting a video in which Anna's KP Sasha's music was played and it still looked very good. This fool didn't understand that if he was proving anything, it was exactly the opposite.
Incidentally, I recommend this insightful article.

С каждым движением в такт меняем жизнь, или не отрекаются любя

Монолог о «музыкальности» в фигурном катании, которую часто используют для того, чтобы найти «последний аргумент» в защиту своих любимых фигуристов, либо принизить мастерство тех, с кем по технике их любимицам нереально бороться.

www.sports.ru

Sasha is also just skating rehearsed choreography. They're 16 years old. It's what I would expect from 16 year olds. I'm saying Anna performs it better.

I actually DO think Sasha is doing a much better job. She IS hearing the music and expressing it well, much better than in the past. I just think Anna performs it better, at this point in time. It's in Anna's grace and innate artistry and ethereal presence that the difference lies. (Keep in mind, I think they're both doing exactly what they're told. Same with Kamila, at this point.)

 

[Vandevska]

Really, that's explicitly stated in the rules? Why then (and this might be a naive question) are the rules not applied? Kami got a -1 deduction according to the protocols, so the panel definitely recognized her fall as a fall. In that case, shouldn't the PCS scores then be capped automatically?

According to this:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/17596-program-component-chart-id-sp-2019-20/file

There is a difference between 1 serious mistake vs multiple serious mistakes. If I'm understanding it correctly, then the rules were applied correctly because there was only 1 serious mistake - a fall. For multiple serious mistakes then it's "max 9.25 Max score SS,TR,CO 8.75 Max score PE, IN" (see rows Platinum and Diamond).

 

[Blades of Passion]

how is it possible that Nugumanova has been stolen in this way, a perfect skating, the best she has done since she left Mishin and placed sixth with a lower PCS than Trusova who was totally disconnected from music... in a world without COACH BONUS Nugumanova would have been 4th or 3rd.

Her skating lacks a bit of speed, power, and flexibility compared to the others. I would have put her ahead of Tuktamysheva, but not a big difference.

 

[Vilord]

Really, that's explicitly stated in the rules? Why then (and this might be a naive question) are the rules not applied? Kami got a -1 deduction according to the protocols, so the panel definitely recognized her fall as a fall. In that case, shouldn't the PCS scores then be capped automatically?

You can find it in the PCS judging guidelines provided by the ISU. Why it isnt applied is anyones guess but I think the main issue is that it isnt programed into the judging system like the -1 deduction. (For example you could program it so that everyone who tries to give to high PCS automaticaly gets reduced to the max allowed level)

If we are verry specific the rules state that someone who is a solid 10.0 (essentialy only Hanyu in todays skating) can be given max 9.75/9.50 where as someone who would without errors score in the 9.0-9.75 range (Kamilla, Anna, Aliona etc) can be given max 9.25/8.75. This is then with a serrious error and it is explicitly stated that a fall is considered a serious error but other things like completely missed spinns or severe pops/step outs could also be considered here especially if there are more than one.

 

[Fluture]

I'm saying Anna performs it better.

I think there‘s no arguing against that. Sasha has improved tons but she‘s still not musical and at about the middle of her program, she loses connection to the music and rushes through the choreography. Anna never did that today, she was in the performance all the way and at all times.

I‘d say Sasha has better skating skills and the difference between them was very obvious in this SP. Anna visibly struggled with stamina issues and skated slowly, cautiously and with flat edges, especially during the step sequence. But when it comes to performance and interpretation, she’s still way ahead of Sasha and I think it‘s going to stay like this for a while.

 

[brakes]

I would withdraw Anna from free skate tomorrow.

There is nothing more I desire for Christmas than her third Nationals win, but it's just too risky having athlete and a fighter of this format to let her competitiveness destroy her health.
I don't know, if I'm more happy or scared after the short, still - bravo you tiny, great heroine!

 

[flanker]

Really, that's explicitly stated in the rules? Why then (and this might be a naive question) are the rules not applied? Kami got a -1 deduction according to the protocols, so the panel definitely recognized her fall as a fall. In that case, shouldn't the PCS scores then be capped automatically?

Official ISU components chart is here

One fall impact:
9.75 Max score SS, TR, CO
9.50 Max score PE, IN

Kamila received 9.75 (from 2 judges of 9) for TR and CO, which is within the rules. While as was pointed at the cup stages, RusFed's rules are not completely the same as ISU rules, though in this case it is fine according to the ISU chart as well.

Edit: I see that Vandevska was faster.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

According to this:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/17596-program-component-chart-id-sp-2019-20/file

There is a difference between 1 serious mistake vs multiple serious mistakes. If I'm understanding it correctly, then the rules were applied correctly because there was only 1 serious mistake - a fall. For multiple serious mistakes then it's "max 9.25 Max score SS,TR,CO 8.75 Max score PE, IN" (see rows Platinum and Diamond).

Ahh, thanks, that clears it up and the table is actually quite handy. I will definitely refer to it in future. Yes, I also understand it that way that there is a distinction between one and multiple serious mistakes with regards to PCS capping. So the rules were applied correctly in Kami's case. That's quite reassuring actually, means the panel at least follows the rulebook.

 

[chasingneverland]

You can find it in the PCS judging guidelines provided by the ISU. Why it isnt applied is anyones guess but I think the main issue is that it isnt programed into the judging system like the -1 deduction. (For example you could program it so that everyone who tries to give to high PCS automaticaly gets reduced to the max allowed level)

If we are verry specific the rules state that someone who is a solid 10.0 (essentialy only Hanyu in todays skating) can be given max 9.75/9.50 where as someone who would normaly score in the 9.0-9.75 range (Kamilla, Anna, Aliona etc) can be given max 9.25/8.75. This is then with a serrious error and it is explicitly stated that a fall is considered a serious error but other things like completely missed spinns or severe pops/step outs could also be considered here especially if there are more than one.

They were though. She didn't make serious errors, plural. She made one. So her max is actually 9.75 Max score SS, TR, CO 9.50 Max score PE, IN.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

Everybody's arguing over the 4 quads thing. I personally think it's good plushenko lets Sasha fail sometimes rather than sheltering her entirely. If you are to fail, the cups of Russia are where they should of it. It's better than Sasha trying to suddenly do 4 quads at nationals.

Anyways on today's topic, the scoring was ridiculous. Figure skating isn't even a sport in Russia. A sport is meant to have fair judging and this was ludicrous judging. It makes a farce out of figure skating.

 

[chasingneverland]

I think there‘s no arguing against that. Sasha has improved tons but she‘s still not musical and at about the middle of her program, she loses connection to the music and rushes through the choreography. Anna never did that today, she was in the performance all the way and at all times.

I‘d say Sasha has better skating skills and the difference between them was very obvious in this SP. Anna visibly struggled with stamina issues and skated slowly, cautiously and with flat edges, especially during the step sequence. But when it comes to performance and interpretation, she’s still way ahead of Sasha and I think it‘s going to stay like this for a while.

I agree with this.

 

[Scott512]

What has been seen today is nauseating ... I have never seen so much injustice in ladies' skating ... how is it possible that Nugumanova has been stolen in this way, a perfect skating, the best she has done since she left Mishin and placed sixth with a lower PCS than Trusova who was totally disconnected from music... in a world without COACH BONUS Nugumanova would have been 4th or 3rd.

Since she left Mishin Little Liza has been getting the Gubanova
treatment with domestic scores. Nugu is so lovely to watch and deserves better. the reality is it's hard to leave the professor and his coaching team and his academy and ever be scored on the same level again. Sad but true. It's the Mishin Mafia at work.

I would like to see Liza and Nastya write a blog about the low domestic scores they've unfairly received the last few years domestically. They are never going to get anywhere in the Russian Federation even at 18 years old. They will never be able to do what Mariah Bell and Bradie Tennell have done in America which is mature into world-class skaters well into their 20s because the Russian Federation will always keep Little Liza and Nastya down. I hope Liza isn't too disheartened but I wouldn't blame her if she was.

 

[Vilord]

According to this:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/sandp-handbooks-faq/17596-program-component-chart-id-sp-2019-20/file

There is a difference between 1 serious mistake vs multiple serious mistakes. If I'm understanding it correctly, then the rules were applied correctly because there was only 1 serious mistake - a fall. For multiple serious mistakes then it's "max 9.25 Max score SS,TR,CO 8.75 Max score PE, IN" (see rows Platinum and Diamond).

You referenced the same document as me but I cant find anywhere in it that several errors should be punished harder than one.
I do actually belive that it should be but I cant find it in the document.
The platinum/Diamond rows refer not to number of errors but at what base level you would put the performace if you exclude the errors

Edit: I see it now so nevermind

 

[chasingneverland]

There wasn't a big difference between the top 5, I would have put them all within 3 points of each other. Trusova has the weakest SP if they all go clean, but she was the only one to do it today, the others all made significant mistakes. I would have put her in 1st.

I actually disagree that Anna made a significant mistake. She lost levels on 1 spin which cost her 2 marks but she was foot perfect everywhere else. That's slightly more than Sasha lost on the F call.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I would withdraw Anna from free skate tomorrow.

There is nothing more I desire for Christmas than her third Nationals win, but it's just too risky having athlete and a fighter of this format to let her competitiveness destroy her health.
I don't know, if I'm more happy or scared after the short, still - bravo you tiny, great heroine!

I think she has already proven her point to the federation and if she were to withdraw (I'm for it cause she looked totally exhausted and it's only the SP) it certainly wouldn't be held against her but I hear she can be extremely stubborn in her own right. She's definitely one tough lady!