2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[chasingneverland]

That's an interesting idea. I call it 'blame hero culture'. So "heroic" deeds (in different times different things are considered heroic) are bad.
300 against 100000 is management error, first non-stop flight across Atlantic is madness (on a wooden plane!), mount Everest climbing is life sacrificed for pride (how many dead bodies are still there?), etc.

Do not take any risk! Avoid pain and stress! Never ever force yourself, willpower is a sin.
And die relaxed at your home sitting on sofa, streaming.

There are differences between achieving the impossible and calculated risks and taking needless ones.

People who climb Mt Everest and succeed spend months preparing and training and are adults btw. They also don't proceed to climb when they're taking unnecessary risks or an avalanche hits. They make the decision to climb another day.

300 against 100000 is a life and death decision. Skating here was not. It wasn't even a requirement to make the World's team.

The first non-stop flight across Atlantic was risky but they made their own informed decisions as adults.

Every time you get on a plane or drive somewhere you're taking a risk. You're completely missing the point. I didn't say risks are bad. Calculated risks are good in fact. I said a culture that encourages needless risks and perpetuates a harmful environment for children (where physical and mental abuse is rampant and fostered) is bad.

 

[chasingneverland]

The three medallists from Nationals, looking pretty happy about their accomplishments.

More photos of the three of them at the press conference here.

Also, Sasha and her giant teddy bear.

Source.

And Daria has a giant teddy bear too!

Source.

And here's Evgenia on the ice at the gala.

More photos here.

LOVE these!! They look so happy!!

 

[chasingneverland]

Come on. The first she almost collapsed and the second day two quads and the skate of her life? Russia is not banned from Olympics for no reason.

I take it you've never heard of adrenaline. Also, she's not the only one who skated there under incredible odds and pressure.

I would argue it's not even the skate of her life. Or her most technically difficult skate. That was at RusNats last year.

 

[chasingneverland]

Report whatever you like. But I am not the only one doubting the situation. If opinions and doubts get censored it doesn't mean the truth has won.

There's a stark difference between an unfounded opinion and accusation and a substantiated fact.

 

[chasingneverland]

She is often so astute and intelligent, but I think Anna had a wrong take with the view of: everyone was telling me to withdraw so if I failed I would be wrong, but I didn't so in the end I was right. The problem is it won't necessarily serve you well to think this way in a lot of situations. I hope without all the adrenaline she'll be able to properly appreciate the legitimate concern others around her had. On the other hand, she's a teenager so some rebellious feelings are absolutely natural at this age!

I also worry that she (and Sasha for that matter) feel justified in their determination to skate here. (Not only for them but for others who watched them. Although that's certainly not new.)

I'm happy and proud of their achievements. But there are real concerns in them skating here and it remains to be seen what the long-term affect of that will be.

 

[chasingneverland]

I'm not particularly an Anna fan or an Eteri fan but I just want to say smth about COVID19. Unless you are immunocompromised, you typically are no longer infectious 10 days after the start of your symptoms. Thus means that even if Anna had covid-19 in November, the chances that she would infect people at nationals are slim to none.

She also tested negative for COVID at RusNats.

 

[chasingneverland]

But this is the problem: My sketched power rankings for that team after RusNats:

1. Anna SHCHERBAKOVA
2. Kamila VALIEVA
3. Aleksandra TRUSOVA
4. Alyona KOSTORNAYA
5. Daria USACHEVA
6. Elizaveta TUKTAMYSHEVA
7. Evgenia MEDVEDEVA
8. Alina ZAGITOVA (if she feels like it)
9. Maya KHROMYKH
10. Elizaveta NUGUMANOVA

And just behind Nugu a couple of Mishin girls (Samodurova, Gulyakova) and couple of Davydov girls (Tsibinova, Frolova) and maybe Talalaikina. I'm just thinking of Nugu here. She really wants those GP spots and I want her to have them.

They've already said more events though for Worlds. I would imagine that also includes RusNats team.

World's standing might also play a role. In fact, I expect it to.

 

[[email protected]]

This list is absolutely crazy and this is what we know. (Also I tried to limit it to prominent skaters.) This can't be normal.

What can't be normal? 6% of the US population or 20 million people already had or have coronavirus. It's officially. What is the real total number, in the U.S.A., in Russia including those without symptoms? If we take a smaller community like Andorra, the official number is 10% of the population. And unlike the general population where no symptom and mild cases can be off the statistical radar the athletes are under constant supervision. And they cannot isolate themselves in their apartments behind the monitor if they want to go on with sports. It is quite obvious that one would expect higher than 6-10% rate among them. May be 20 - 30% So what is not normal?

Coronavirus is a tricky condition. One thing is sure, though - it can be extremely contagious with some people and absolutely not contagious with others. The former may do whatever they like. But unless they live in a sterile environment (which is possible for <0.1% of population) they will be affected anyway. My acquaintance resorted to all possible precautions and got sick. We had a very brief encounter with a sick person and my wife got the virus. On the other hand, neither myself nor our kids were affected by now - more than a month has passe since my wife got coronavirus.

In the list that you provided there are cases (S/K for example), where only one partner got coronavirus, etc.

What I am trying to say here (and not for the first time): let's discuss facts, may be share opinions. What is not welcome by me and many others here are the attempts to preach from supposedly higher moral grounds than those of Russian Fed, Russian skaters, their families and teams. They are higher only in the eyes of beholders.

 

[chasingneverland]

Well, there are all the (not even russian) swimmers with asthma and they make it work somehow, so sure there are legal and doping free ways for this.

There are also hockey players with diabetes and asthma. There are also athletes competing on broken bones.

 

[chasingneverland]

And all of a sudden it's not allowed to talk about Anna's health, when mental and physical health is the only thing that is always being discused in sport Yeah, her fans now feel pressured because they know how ignorant her choice was and now they want to shut down everybody who dares to mention it
And btw, at 16, you're not a child anymore

I think the pages of discussion have shown you are allowed to talk about her health here.

Also, at 16 you ARE legally a minor. Yes, even in Russia 16 year olds have NOT reached the age of majority.

 

[chasingneverland]

Okay I just want to say that just because Sofia skated with fever and Liza and Veronika had Covid and Anna has pneumonia doesn’t make any certain case correct solely because someone else did a similar thing. None of them should have been at whatever event they were at.

Oh COMPLETELY agreed. ALL of them were were irresponsible.

I just am pushing back at singling out just Anna for blame.

 

[chasingneverland]

Freedom of speech is obviously not the the strength of this forum.

Anna performance was brilliant and probably her best ever (pcs wise).she deserved her win so much.

But indeed it leaves some doubts or suspicion how this is possible. But of course no facts/proof

Freedom of speech does not protect you from libel/slander and defamation charges. If an untrue statement causes harm just because you're "free to say it" doesn't mean that you're free from charges of defamation.

 

[chasingneverland]

If you’re trying to push the narrative that people expressing concern is hating on skaters, then I think that speaks volumes about your own biases.
Since when has discussing a skaters behavior, actions and health been a subject people can’t discuss? Because I see many posts on this forum about exactly that.

A few posters are trying to dictate and bully others that express concern because it’s not fitting into their narrative. That’s very concerning on a message board that is full of opinions.

The difference lies in intention.

Concern is welcomed. I've defended Anna here and yet I'm very concerned about hers (and others) actions here (and elsewhere). While in some cases (like here), they worked out, they were needlessly risky and could have long-term implications.

Attacking her character under the pretext of concern and accusing her of doping (and making unfounded accusations with no proof) is where the line has been fully crossed and is no longer concern.

 

[chasingneverland]

So IF worlds happen and everyone wants to go, Alena and Liza will have to fight it out for the 3rd spot at some B competition in Russia?

And Sasha and Liza N as well. (Only Anna has secured her spot.) And more than one competition. I think there are around three? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[Magill]

Unfortunately it is paid arricle. Any summary?

Here comes the WSJ article summary requested:
"No other federation’s skaters have reported anywhere close to the number of coronavirus cases that Russia has. But no other federation has proceeded quite as Russia has through the pandemic, either.
Canada canceled the 2020 world championships that were to have taken place in Montreal in March, and the international Grand Prix event it was set to host in October.
The U.S. converted several competitions to a virtual format, and placed its domestic events in no-spectator, temporary bubble set-ups. Skaters donned masks within moments of stepping off the ice, and have shown themselves comfortably training in them as well.
China and Japan have held competitions with some fans in attendance, but with far stricter mask compliance than Russia’s."

Oh, and they mention pneumonia cases as "pneumonia". I mean, in comas.
And BTW, it is not a paid article. If a box pops-up at you asking you to buy a subscription, you can just close it by clicking 'x" and your access is unterrupted

 

[Vilord]

So IF worlds happen and everyone wants to go, Alena and Liza will have to fight it out for the 3rd spot at some B competition in Russia?

I would assume Anna and Sasha are safe for a potential worlds team after nationals. The third spot I think is still up for grabs between Aliona, Liza T and possibly also Liza N by virtue of finishing ahead of Liza T at nationals.

I think the favourite here is still Aliona but we will see how it plays out. I dont think they determined yet which competition it will be but my guess is either Russian cup final or that other competition they talked about hosting instead of Euros.

 

[chasingneverland]

What can't be normal? 6% of the US population or 20 million people already had or have coronavirus. It's officially. What is the real total number, in the U.S.A., in Russia including those without symptoms? If we take a smaller community like Andorra, the official number is 10% of the population. And unlike the general population where no symptom and mild cases can be off the statistical radar the athletes are under constant supervision. And they cannot isolate themselves in their apartments behind the monitor if they want to go on with sports. It is quite obvious that one would expect higher than 6-10% rate among them. May be 20 - 30% So what is not normal?

Coronavirus is a tricky condition. One thing is sure, though - it can be extremely contagious with some people and absolutely not contagious with others. The former may do whatever they like. But unless they live in a sterile environment (which is possible for <0.1% of population) they will be affected anyway. My acquaintance resorted to all possible precautions and got sick. We had a very brief encounter with a sick person and my wife got the virus. On the other hand, neither myself nor our kids were affected by now - more than a month has passe since my wife got coronavirus.

In the list that you provided there are cases (S/K for example), where only one partner got coronavirus, etc.

What I am trying to say here (and not for the first time): let's discuss facts, may be share opinions. What is not welcome by me and many others here are the attempts to preach from supposedly higher moral grounds than those of Russian Fed, Russian skaters, their families and teams. They are higher only in the eyes of beholders.

I'm not saying it doesn't make sense with the restrictions and regulations that have been put into place. It completely does. I'm arguing that that many injuries/illnesses to Russia's top skaters isn't normal (and it's isn't, even by pandemic standards.) No other Fed's skaters have been hit by COVID so drastically. From WSJ "No other federation’s skaters have reported anywhere close to the number of coronavirus cases that Russia has. But no other federation has proceeded quite as Russia has through the pandemic, either." So no, it ISN'T normal.

Also, the US's response, like that of the RusFed, to COVID and their respective regulations and precautions are not to be condoned.

Also, in cases where only one partner got contracted COVID, etc, I was clear in that in my list.

Finally, my list was based in facts and in response to a question by a poster as to whether they (RusFed) wanted all their top skaters to get COVID? My list was to point out that most of their top skaters had actually ALREADY contracted COVID and at minimum were exposed. Furthermore, speaking of "discussing facts", you're actually wrong in using S/K as an example of only one partner getting coronavirus. Both Sinitsina/Katsalapov contracted it with hers being more severe and damaging her lungs https://m.tvzvezda.ru/news/sport/content/202012221642-67vO3.html/amp/

 

[chasingneverland]

I would assume Anna and Sasha are safe for a potential worlds team after nationals. The third spot I think is still up for grabs between Aliona, Liza T and possibly also Liza N by virtue of finishing ahead of Liza T at nationals.

I think the favourite here is still Aliona but we will see how it plays out. I dont think they determined yet which competition it will be but my guess is either Russian cup final or that other competition they talked about hosting instead of Euros.

Only Anna has been named to the World's team. The rest remains to be seen. (Although probably Sasha is also secure.)

 

[Lzbee]

They already do have their entire senior Euros/Worlds team injured or ill (or at least exposed) with COVID or other similar illnesses. Look at this list (with accomplishments from last season):

Dmitri Aliev (back injury earlier in the season/COVID) - withdrew from the fifth stage, withdrew from RusNats - 2020 Euro champion, 2020 RusNat champion
Artur Danielian (ankle injury/surgery) - missed entire season, withdrew from Rostelecom, withdrew from Rus Nats - 2020 Euro silver medals, 2020 RusNAt silver medalist
Alexander Samarin (back) - withdrew from his second stage, withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 RusNats bronze medalist
Mikhail Kolyada (Liza had COVID) - withdrew from fifth stage

Aliona Kostornaia (injury earlier in the season/COVID) - withdrew from the fifth stage, and withdrew from RusNats - 2020 Euro champion, 2020 RusNats silver medalist, 2020 GPF champion
Anna Shcherbakova (pneumonia) - withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 Euro silver medalist, 2019-2020 RusNats champion, 2020 GPF silver medalist
Alexandra Trusova (severe injury) - didn't withdraw from anything but skated injured at Rostelecom (injured herself more) and RusNats where she was forced to limit her program as she can't physically do/even train more - 2020 Euro bronze medalist, 2020 RusNats bronze medalist, 2020 GPF bronze medalist
Liza Tuktamysheva (COVID) - withdrew from the fifth stage
Anastasiia Guliakova (Liza had COVID) - withdrew from fifth stage
Sofia Samodurova (fever/cold at test skates) - withdrew from free skate
Evgenia Medvedeva (back inury/COVID with severe lung damage) - withdrew from the first and second stages, withdrew from Rostelecom, and withdrew from RusNats
Liza Nugumanova (broken leg) - withdrew from fifth stage
Ksenia Sinitsyna (leg injury and some sickness) - withdrew from entire season and RusNats - 2020 Youth Olympic silver medalist

Boikova/Kozlovskii (Kozlovskii COVID, Boikova cold) - withdrew from third stage (Kozlovskii), (did compete fourth stage), withdrew from fifth stage (Boikova) - 2020 Euros champion, 2020 RusNats chapion
Tarasova/Morozov (Morozov COVID/Tarasova pneumonia) - withdrew from Skate America (Morozov), withdrew from the fifth stage (Tarasova) - 2019-2020 Euros silver medalist, 2020 RusNats silver medalist
Pavliuchenko/Khodykin (Khodykin accute respiratory injection) - withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 Euros bronze medalist, 2020 RusNats bronze medalist
Mishina/Galliamov - (Galliamov COVID) - withdrew from second stage - 2020 GPF bronze medalist
Pepeleva/Pleshkov (one of their coaches got COVID) - withdrew from Rostelecom
Panfilova/Rylov - (Rylov tonsillectomy) - withdrew from test skates and early stages - 2020 World Junior champions, 2020 RusNats Jr. champions, 2020 Winter Youth Olympics champions, 2020 JGPF champions
Akhanteva/Kolsesov - (Kolesov inury) - withdrew from RusNats - 2020 World Junior silver medalists, 2020 RusNats Jr. silver medalists, 2020 RusNats JGPF bronze medalists

Sinitsina/Katsalapov (Katsalapov injury earlier in the season/Sinitsina tendon inflammation at second stage/both COVID - hers severe aand damaged her lungs) - withdrew midway through FD at second stage, withdrew from fifth stage, and withdrew from RusNats - 2020 Euro champion, 2019-2020 RusNats champions
Stepanova/Bukin (Stepanova back injury/COVID) - missed entire fall season, withdrew from Rostelecom - 2020 Euro bronze medalists, 2020 RusNats silver medalists
Zahorski/Guerrerio (Zahorski COVID) - 2020 RusNats bronze medalists
Shevchenko/Eremenko (COVID outbreak at training center) - withdrew from Rostelecom

This list is absolutely crazy and this is what we know. (Also I tried to limit it to prominent skaters.) This can't be normal.

Thank you for compiling all that data.

Does anyone know if there's a list of injuries/illnesses/withdrawals over the last few years? I'd be interested to know if and how much actual difference there has been this year.

 

[trkvy]

Liza Nugumanova (broken leg) - withdrew from fifth stage

Liza was at 3rd and 4th stages and couldn't withdraw from fifth stage.