2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Jontor]

Kolyada should never be behind Anna. Significantly better technique on jumps, two triple Axel's and two quads, even better components.

Says the Kolyada fan... Duh!

Of course it's impossible to compare the men and women. They are scored differently.
And Kolyada did beat Shcherbakova in PCS with the same factoring 96.86 vs 96,36.

Anna beats him on tech with GOE +3 on every element. Kolyada had some issues, first 3A -2GOE, just 4Ts againt Anna's 4Lz and 4F. So that gives Anna +10 points in tech+GOE.

This of course is totally irrelevant and impossible to compare really. But I thought it was a fun comparison to make.

 

[Scott512]

Kolyada should never be behind Anna. Significantly better technique on jumps, two triple Axel's and two quads, even better components.

Did he bring the house down like Anna did?

By students I mean some of my former junior high school classmates, my former high school classmates and my former colleages at university. They cheated on exams. Still can not get over it.
Anyway... Figure skating is extremely corrupted sport. Let's not pretend that is not. It is just laughable

We know who the great skaters are and we know who the top 3 were at ladies Russian nationals.

 

[flanker]

Something from FS memes:

 

[Rus Skating World]

there was a lapse in time between us seeing the skaters on the screen and them actually realizing they're being filmed, which is why many skaters had that look for a few seconds before showing a smile. They just see their faces pop up later than we do, and it's pretty normal to not be too happy that one of your rivals is probably going to outscore you. Or, maybe that's just their serious resting faces

I 100% agree. In fact it's just time gap while broadcasting that may make skaters' smiles look fake. Most of the time they are just tired and smile only when they understand they are on camera. For example, check Maiia's reactions.

Moreover, I think that Kamila was more concentrated and maybe only slightly upset about losing gold medal (muuuch less than Sasha was). At least, it doesn't mean so much for her right now as it does for senior skaters. And in the interview after the championship she didn't sound envious at all. In fact she said she was very grateful to be able to compete among such prominent skaters.

 

[nussnacker]

I don’t want to get in the rest of the discussion, but my mom made me watch Ice Age Kids show from Russian TV, and the Russian panel of specialists absolutely recommends and judges the young figure skaters by the same standard as outside Russia in terms of facial expressions.

The aspiring athletes (including Tutberidze’s students) are taught to look at the audience, the farthest rows, and both the coaches and judge panels (Tarasova, Mushin, Navka and Averbukh) specifically note kids who smile, give feedback on facial expression to the ones who do not to smile when they skate to upbeat music, and Navka even comments at some point of a girl she picked, “I don’t have to remind her to smile all the time, she always has the smile on her face”.

So, it is a myth that Russian skaters are not drilled from day one to smile when performing.

You’re conflating different things here, I was specifically talking about K&C reactions, not about smiling when performing.

 

[Fool]

You’re conflating different things here, I was specifically talking about K&C reactions, not about smiling when performing.

This, and sitting behind the scenes waiting for others to finish should require even less "performance" than even the K&C imo.

In general, I detest the normalization of both this "current podium" camera, and the coaching camera at all times. It just takes attention away from the one doing the performance.

 

[kolyadafan2002]

What did everyone think of Kamila's 4T at the gala? I didn't think she could have axis issues with the new rippon technique but there were signs of it. It could be like Osmond where the jump's still consistent as her success rate is definitely improved.

Needs more core strength. Her technique on a toeloop isn't bad tbf, it's pretty much same as a normal quad toe . It's more lack of core strength which the rippon arms try to substitute for (hence why her rippon jumps are more stable).
Stronger core would mean lesser flexability though. It's all a balance hard to meet.

Says the Kolyada fan... Duh!

Of course it's impossible to compare the men and women. They are scored differently.
And Kolyada did beat Shcherbakova in PCS with the same factoring 96.86 vs 96,36.

Anna beats him on tech with GOE at least +3 on every element. Kolyada had some issues, first 3A -2GOE, just 4Ts againt Anna's 4Lz and 4F. So that gives Anna +10 points in tech+GOE.

This of course is totally irrelevant and impossible to compare really. But I thought it was a fun comparison to make.

I will bring up the lack of edge call on her Lutz, as that's relevent comparing her 4Lz GOE as well as the 3Lz Vs Kolyadas 3Lz. In reality, I think Kolyada was scored fairly.
Also remember Kolyada did 4T in SP and Anna wasn't able to do this.

But women's competition seemed inflated in general.

But Kolyada this year seems on a new level - that of Hanyu (sans two quads). His jump quality is on another level to every other man or woman. The scoring could never be accurate if they have Sherbakova sans two triple Axel's and minus a short program quad ahead of him, let alone that far ahead.

How does Kamilas score get justified? Basically same jumps sans two 3As and a so quad, and with sp mistake. I know it's two seperate competitions but surely the standard should be the same/similar across them?

 

[chasingneverland]

Her smile was so fake.

I don't know why I'm going to bother to engage but here goes. (The fact that you only comment good things about certain skaters and only comment negative things about others has grown, quite frankly, tiresome and doesn't contribute to the discussion.)

That (a smile when she realizes the camera is on her despite feeling otherwise) applies for every single one of them that were sitting in the green room when they heard a skater/score that did better (or for that matter when they stayed ahead), even those for whom it would have taken a meltdown to stay ahead, so to single out Kami is quite frankly unreasonable. Anastasia T smiled when Anna F's score was announced and the camera was on her (despite looking visibly disappointed and sad earlier), Ksenia T smiled and clapped when Maiia's score was announced and the camera was on her, Maiia smiled (after looking solemn) when Sasha's score was announced and the camera was on her, and Sasha smiled when Kami's score was announced and the camera was on her. And - as mentioned ad nauseum - Kami smiled when Anna's score was announced and the camera was on her.
In fact most of them smiled (and some even waved as well or showed their stuffed animals as well or put down their phones as well ) when there weren't even scores being announced when the camera was on them - some happily, some shyly, some kinda uncomfortably - but smiles none the same. (Evgenia also did the same thing in the audience.) And almost all of them smiled and waved and showed stuffed animals in the kiss and cry before and after scores were announced, even those with disappointing skates.

Where are the comments that their smiles were fake??

Singling out Kami makes no sense, particularly as she (and Sasha) had realistic gold medal aspirations here.

 

[Autumn Leaves]

This is the country Anna (and all Russian top skaters) reside in: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...third-worst-covid-19-death-toll-underreported
One that's admitted to underrepporting COVID itself and not enforcing proper regulations.

I am sorry, but this article seems to be manipulative. It says that statistics on all deaths (including covid) has increased. That’s absolutely normal and happens everywhere, because there is a lag from the moment of death to the moment the information reached the statistical agency and is published. Typically, the data on death cases is not accurate for the recent weeks and months and is upwardly revised with time. Often it comes with a disclaimer that explains that. The Guardian seem to spin this normal revision into “hiding deaths”, etc. (I am not Russian and have no idea what’s the situation there. But I didn’t see any data in the article that points to the conclusion of hiding deaths).

 

[chasingneverland]

I am sorry, but this article seems to be manipulative. It says that statistics on all deaths (including covid) has increased. That’s absolutely normal and happens everywhere, because there is a lag from the moment of death to the moment the information reached the statistical agency and is published. Typically, the data on death cases is not accurate for the recent weeks and months and is upwardly revised with time. Often it comes with a disclaimer that explains that. The Guardian seem to spin this normal revision into “hiding deaths”, etc. (I am not Russian and have no idea what’s the situation there. But I didn’t see any data in the article that points to the conclusion of hiding deaths).

I meant it more to highlight that all of this is taking place during a global pandemic where leaders of sovereign nations are making decisions directly impacting hundreds of thousands of people, not just discussing one specific country. Sorry that was unclear.

I meant it more as why is a 16 year old being singled out and critiqued and crucified so strongly?

 

[Jontor]

I will bring up the lack of edge call on her Lutz, as that's relevent comparing her 4Lz GOE as well as the 3Lz Vs Kolyadas 3Lz. In reality, I think Kolyada was scored fairly.
Also remember Kolyada did 4T in SP and Anna wasn't able to do this.

But women's competition seemed inflated in general.

But Kolyada this year seems on a new level - that of Hanyu (sans two quads). His jump quality is on another level to every other man or woman. The scoring could never be accurate if they have Sherbakova sans two triple Axel's and minus a short program quad ahead of him, let alone that far ahead.

How does Kamilas score get justified? Basically same jumps sans two 3As and a so quad, and with sp mistake. I know it's two seperate competitions but surely the standard should be the same/similar across them?

Note that the comparison I did was for the free program only as the ladies can't do quads in the short. So we can, in a way, do the comparison in the long as both men and women have the same technical elements.

But when it comes to comparing the men and ladies, as I said before I think it's impossible. In GOEs, judges have different expectations for men and women so that's not comparable. And when it comes to PCS, it's all about the whole impression really, and for ladies, a gracious feminine style would give a Ladies skater better PCS - a man with a feminine style won't. So, not comparable.

But it's interesting that you brought up Valieva. She and Kolyada had about the same free skate score with the same PCS factoring. Both had 2 4Ts, but Kolyada had also two 3As (although one with -GOE) which Valieva didn't have. So how could they score the same?
Obviously Valieva's spins got huge marks. But we can't expect Kolyada to do those insane I-spins, can we?. So, all in all, the comparison fails.

It was all just fun comparison. Don't make too much out of it.

 

[Amei]

I meant it more to highlight that all of this is taking place during a global pandemic where leaders of sovereign nations are making decisions directly impacting hundreds of thousands of people, not just discussing one specific country. Sorry that was unclear.

I meant it more as why is a 16 year old being singled out and critiqued and crucified so strongly?

Because that 16 year old won over the skater they wanted to win.

 

[Novalis]

I also love the little detail of "The Final Countdown" playing in the backround when the top group begins warm-up. A nice touch by the organizers

I was just thinking that maybe it's referring to Sasha Trusova. I mean, "the final countdown" usually means counting down to a rocket launch . And "we're heading for Venus" apparently.

Or are just counting down skaters? Only final ones left.

 

[Fried]

I am sorry, but this article seems to be manipulative. It says that statistics on all deaths (including covid) has increased. That’s absolutely normal and happens everywhere, because there is a lag from the moment of death to the moment the information reached the statistical agency and is published. Typically, the data on death cases is not accurate for the recent weeks and months and is upwardly revised with time. Often it comes with a disclaimer that explains that. The Guardian seem to spin this normal revision into “hiding deaths”, etc. (I am not Russian and have no idea what’s the situation there. But I didn’t see any data in the article that points to the conclusion of hiding deaths).

You do not mean to suggest that an increase from allegedly 55,000 dead to 168,000 dead has something to do with delayed late registrations. You can't possibly be serious. I mean, the typical Russian counting method of not including Covid deaths with previous illnesses in the statistics alone shows how calculations are made here.

 

[VenusHalley]

I am sorry, but this article seems to be manipulative. It says that statistics on all deaths (including covid) has increased. That’s absolutely normal and happens everywhere, because there is a lag from the moment of death to the moment the information reached the statistical agency and is published. Typically, the data on death cases is not accurate for the recent weeks and months and is upwardly revised with time. Often it comes with a disclaimer that explains that. The Guardian seem to spin this normal revision into “hiding deaths”, etc. (I am not Russian and have no idea what’s the situation there. But I didn’t see any data in the article that points to the conclusion of hiding deaths).

Revision, lol. Are we gonna pretend there is no pandemic too?

Btw, I am just unimpressed about Liza being STILL irresponsible, after covid smashed her chances of medaling at nationals.

 

[Fried]

Moreover, I think that Kamila was more concentrated and maybe only slightly upset about losing gold medal (muuuch less than Sasha was). At least, it doesn't mean so much for her right now as it does for senior skaters. And in the interview after the championship she didn't sound envious at all. In fact she said she was very grateful to be able to compete among such prominent skaters.

So? If you have no problem taking that opinion publicly, then I'll oppose mine. It was obvious to me that Kami was far more angry than Sasha. I am also of the opinion that all of the PR has seeped into Kami to such an extent that she considers herself to be the one when the TT sells it to the figure skating world. And anyway. Did Sasha sound offended?
Here you can also see very well who makes a more relaxed impression and to what extent:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJS9aSAJctc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

 

[Finley]

Because that 16 year old won over the skater they wanted to win.

This should be the title of this thread. Forever and retroactively.

 

[chasingneverland]

So? If you have no problem taking that opinion publicly, then I'll oppose mine. It was obvious to me that Kami was far more angry than Sasha. I am also of the opinion that all of the PR has seeped into Kami to such an extent that she considers herself to be the one when the TT sells it to the figure skating world. And anyway. Did Sasha sound offended?
Here you can also see very well who makes a more relaxed impression and to what extent:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJS9aSAJctc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I would say that's more Sasha and Anna knowing each other better and being more comfortable in front of the camera in big moments. Remember this is their third senior RusNats and they have been to other bigger events (like Euros together for that matter) while it's Kamila's first senior RusNats and she's still a junior internationally.

 

[Finley]

So? If you have no problem taking that opinion publicly, then I'll oppose mine. It was obvious to me that Kami was far more angry than Sasha. I am also of the opinion that all of the PR has seeped into Kami to such an extent that she considers herself to be the one when the TT sells it to the figure skating world. And anyway. Did Sasha sound offended?
Here you can also see very well who makes a more relaxed impression and to what extent:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJS9aSAJctc/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

So Kamila gets gold for being upset and Sasha gets the silver?

 

[lariko]

Drilled is the word. It is true, they have to be taught it, just because the normal everyday way is to be serious unless you are very happy.

It depends on a person. There are Russians with sunshine personalities, there are introverts. We value the sincerity of emotion and believe the national character to be inclined to emotional extremes. In a celebratory situation or to show support, of course, people are expected to smile. It’s not like Russians are Vulcans...