2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Lechat]

Fair enough. But I think you misunderstand me. Eteri did fantastic work with Alyona in just 10 months in 2017, but obviously Alyona had to be there and do the work. Otherwise the results would not be there. That's a given. What I'm saying is that it was a match made in heaven and I think Alyona lost it when she left...

It’s all about work, work and work.
Alina explained well the regime she endured and why she wanted a break.
The same with Zhenia, it’s all thanks to her hard work that she became a great champion. Talent is not enough.

 

[chasingneverland]

Ok, but could you still explain how it's not offensive that they chose to write it in that way? It's one thing to recognize that Eteri is a large part of why she was so successful and that they were a good pair. It's another thing to write about her as a product and her talents in skating as nothing special without Eteri. Why not just go about discussing what they perceive to be her weaknesses without adding the part of how they never felt she was anything special without Eteri? Don't you realize that they're completely invalidating her own merits and her innate abilities in doing so?

I guess you would consider any and all criticism pertaining to one's profession fair. I don't agree with that, but you do you.

Criticism pertaining to one's profession IS fair, as long as it falls within that scope.

And it's not offensive because it's a point of view. And the argument wasn't that Aliona wasn't special. It was that she was the same skater under Eteri - with very similar strengths and weaknesses. Also this board has consistently talked about the Eteri bonus - that's really all that is about.

 

[chasingneverland]

LoL! With exception of course

*rolls eyes*

I did mention that exception.

Perhaps you can try reading? It might help you...in whatever it is you do on a daily basis when you aren't frequenting message boards that is..

 

[silveruskate]

Fair enough. But I think you misunderstand me. Eteri did fantastic work with Alyona in just 10 months in 2017, but obviously Alyona had to be there and do the work. Otherwise the results would not be there. That's a given. What I'm saying is that it was a match made in heaven and I think Alyona lost it when she left...

That was not like anything you said honestly. And match made in heaven requires 2 sides. What about Tsurskaya, Tarakanova etc. Not everyone can train with Eteri and become one of the best. Aliona has shown she can have a quick turn-around. Remember how she trained the 3A in 6 weeks and made it super consistent? It's unheard of. Also, yes, it's likely that the record will be broken at Worlds, but Aliona ended the season with the World Record total score in Ladies FS, and that's just a fact. You say working hard is a given and obvious, but no. It's huge and a massive aspect to her success, it can't just be belittled.

And about the Nationals performance, there are nuances to do with her coming back from injury etc. and I would say a lot of her skills and technique were there to be seen. I don't think coaches do zero work on skaters. Eteri is a great coach and polished her. As Eteri has done with all skaters *because* she's a good coach. Shocker.

 

[dhjh811]

Criticism pertaining to one's profession IS fair, as long as it falls within that scope.

And it's not offensive because it's a point of view. And the argument wasn't that Aliona wasn't special. It was that she was the same skater under Eteri - with very similar strengths and weaknesses. Also this board has consistently talked about the Eteri bonus - that's really all that is about.

Well, that is what YOU think, that all criticism pertaining to one's profession is fair. I personally think that this is not necessarily true for all cases of criticism about one's abilities in their professions, but I obviously won't persuade you.

And, that post was far from just "she was the same skater under Eteri - with very similar strengths and weaknesses"...

 

[chasingneverland]

Yes, or at least that's how it was like when I graduated. They looked at your GPA and if it was real high (like 4/4 or close to 4) they would reduce a portion of your loan that you had to pay back.

Where do you go to school? I want my student loans "forgiven" haha.

 

[dhjh811]

Yes, or at least that's how it was like when I graduated. They looked at your GPA and if it was real high (like 4/4 or close to 4) they would reduce a portion of your loan that you had to pay back.


Attending public schools/organizations is usually much cheaper than private schools/organizations. We can't really justify the cost difference. Sometime it's because public schools/organizations receive subsidies and private ones don't. but really private schools are usually more expensive for no reason.

Here the annual membership fee of the Cricket Club is around $20,000, and that's just the membership fee (excluding coaching fees and other stuff).

And unfortunately that's the price Aliona has to pay for attending a private skating club.

in the US, private schools can be more expensive, but they can give out huge scholarships to the best applicants. State schools have less freedom in doing so. I know that it costs $60k+ a year to go to a UC if you are not from California ( The GPA thing doesn't apply here either, at least at my university America sucks

 

[chasingneverland]

Well, that is what YOU think, that all criticism pertaining to one's profession is fair. I personally think that this is not necessarily true for all cases of criticism about one's abilities in their professions, but I obviously won't persuade you.

And, that post was far from just "she was the same skater under Eteri - with very similar strengths and weaknesses"...

Well I think it obviously depends on the criticism. To limit it to just skating: A criticism on someone's weight has no bearing on what they did accomplished on the ice. Criticism about a skater for crying or something directly related to their character also has no bearing whatsoever, so would also not be fair. So that would be outside the scope and not pertaining to their profession. A criticism on their skating skills though is directly tied to their career. Skating skills are an integral part of skating and part of their score, for that matter, and therefore, within the scope. Basically if the criticism is directly tied to how the sport and it's measures of success are evaluated then it would be within the scope and fair.

How else do you read this? "She finished 3rd in her senior debut. Same tech as before. But everything is now polished. The Eteri team made wonders with her in just 10 months. And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses." The poster concludes by saying she isn't special to them - but that's a personal opinion not that they're not special at all.

 

[chasingneverland]

Ontario, they're not gonna forgive all of it lol

I'm in Alberta. I wish they forgive some of it here..haha

 

[dhjh811]

Well I think it obviously depends on the criticism. To limit it to just skating: A criticism on someone's weight has no bearing on what they did accomplished on the ice. Criticism about a skater for crying or something directly related to their character also has no bearing whatsoever, so would also not be fair. So that would be outside the scope and not pertaining to their profession. A criticism on their skating skills though is directly tied to their career. Skating skills are an integral part of skating and part of their score, for that matter, and therefore, within the scope. Basically if the criticism is directly tied to how the sport and it's measures of success are evaluated then it would be within the scope and fair.

How else do you read this? "She finished 3rd in her senior debut. Same tech as before. But everything is now polished. The Eteri team made wonders with her in just 10 months. And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses." The poster concludes by saying she isn't special to them - but that's a personal opinion not that they're not special at all.

Ok

 

[silveruskate]

Well I think it obviously depends on the criticism. To limit it to just skating: A criticism on someone's weight has no bearing on what they did accomplished on the ice. Criticism about a skater for crying or something directly related to their character also has no bearing whatsoever, so would also not be fair. So that would be outside the scope and not pertaining to their profession. A criticism on their skating skills though is directly tied to their career. Skating skills are an integral part of skating and part of their score, for that matter, and therefore, within the scope. Basically if the criticism is directly tied to how the sport and it's measures of success are evaluated then it would be within the scope and fair.

How else do you read this? "She finished 3rd in her senior debut. Same tech as before. But everything is now polished. The Eteri team made wonders with her in just 10 months. And I guess this is the greatness of the Eteri team. They are masterful in disguising her tech weaknesses." The poster concludes by saying she isn't special to them - but that's a personal opinion not that they're not special at all.

Well you're giving an absurdly charitable take on what was originally said. Were the tid-bits on how she shouldn't have even been at the RusNats in 2017 necessary, no. Or the mocking of the "creative entry" into the 3A. No, nothing special to see...I mean it's just a 3A. It was about all aspects of her skating, calling her a product and attributing all her success to Eteri.

 

[Jontor]

That was not like anything you said honestly. And match made in heaven requires 2 sides. What about Tsurskaya, Tarakanova etc. Not everyone can train with Eteri and become one of the best. Aliona has shown she can have a quick turn-around. Remember how she trained the 3A in 6 weeks and made it super consistent? It's unheard of. Also, yes, it's likely that the record will be broken at Worlds, but Aliona ended the season with the World Record total score in Ladies FS, and that's just a fact. You say working hard is a given and obvious, but no. It's huge and a massive aspect to her success, it can't just be belittled.

And about the Nationals performance, there are nuances to do with her coming back from injury etc. and I would say a lot of her skills and technique were there to be seen. I don't think coaches do zero work on skaters. Eteri is a great coach and polished her. As Eteri has done with all skaters *because* she's a good coach. Shocker.

You're obviously in defense mode of one of your fave skaters. Does that mean that you don't tolerate any other opinions? Chill.

 

[chasingneverland]

Ok

Do I agree with them? No. I think Aliona is magic on ice - I think she transcends what most accomplish on the ice and she's ethereal. Also she has worked very hard to be where she is - you don't achieve her resume by shear talent without working consistently and sacrificing.

However, I also acknowledge that others may have different preferences. That's okay. And her skating and packaging is very much a part of what she puts on the ice.

Also, I think Eteri's group in particular are masters of exploiting the code and doing their best to emphasize strengths while hiding weaknesses - which they all have. That's the measure of a good coach.

 

[Dawn825]

Aliona didn't dominate though. Everytime she won Sasha and Anna fell. The one time Anna didn't, Aliona didn't win.

If I'm not wrong, Aliona fell once the whole season. That's some Evgenia level consistency, and she never once fell on the triple axel. If you wanna say she didn't dominate bec Anna won Nationals, fine. But saying she didn't dominate because everyone else fell and she didn't doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[dhjh811]

Do I agree with them? No. I think Aliona is magic on ice - I think she transcends what most accomplish on the ice and she's ethereal. Also she has worked very hard to be where she is - you don't achieve her resume by shear talent without working consistently and sacrificing.

However, I also acknowledge that others may have different preferences. That's okay. And her skating and packaging is very much a part of what she puts on the ice.

Also, I think Eteri's group in particular are masters of exploiting the code and doing their best to emphasize strengths while hiding weaknesses - which they all have. That's the measure of a good coach.

i meant ok as in ok, i see the points. don't necessarily agree, but don't want to tire both of us out on this anymore

 

[silveruskate]

You're obviously in defense mode of one of your fave skaters. Does that mean that you don't tolerate any other opinions? Chill.

I'm entitled to think what you said was disrespectful. I still do. And I'm allowed to lay out my reasonings. Labelling it as in "defense mode" is just an easy out. Maybe you can't tolerate my words now.

 

[chasingneverland]

Well you're giving an absurdly charitable take on what was originally said. Were the tid-bits on how she shouldn't have even been at the RusNats in 2017 necessary, no. Or the mocking of the "creative entry" into the 3A. No, nothing special to see...I mean it's just a 3A. It was about all aspects of her skating, calling her a product and attributing all her success to Eteri.

Well it's objectively true that she didn't actually qualify for RusNats in 2017 and was a substitute. And it is objectively true that Aliona's climb was meteoritic once she got to Eteri. She wasn't a star as a child. This isn't a Sofia A situation. It's closer to Alina.

I also mentioned I disagree with the posters overall conclusions.

 

[Amei]

If I'm not wrong, Aliona fell once the whole season. That's some Evgenia level consistency, and she never once fell on the triple axel. If you wanna say she didn't dominate bec Anna won Nationals, fine. But saying she didn't dominate because everyone else fell and she didn't doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Well I think a bit of the point is - Kostornaia won because Shcherbakova/Trusova fell, while yes she had no control over them and skated to the best of her ability; but she didn't win because she was some dominating unbeatable skater on the ice but because others fell.

 

[Jontor]

I'm entitled to think what you said was disrespectful. I still do. And I'm allowed to lay out my reasonings. Labelling it as in "defense mode" is just an easy out. Maybe you can't tolerate my words now.

No worries, I'm still intact...

 

[chasingneverland]

I think they would if you have gpa of 4/4.
I unfortunately didn't but I have a friend who had that kinda gpa and apparently his loan was reduced.

Hmm I got a lot of grants in general - I actually still do now. In fact my entire tuition this term was covered by grants. So maybe?

I wish student loans weren't a thing in general, as long as you finished your programs. I'm happy for you if you get some reduced though!