2020-21 Russian Pairs' figure skating

[Fanou]

In general, is Dmitriev perceived as a good coach in Russia ?

 

[NastiaGalliamovfan]

He has no top pair students now.

Such a bummer Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin will miss their Worlds again, imo they deserve to compete more
than the likes of Tarasova / Morozov whom have consistency issues.

 

[coldblueeyes]

Unfortunately, until T/M retire, we'll see one of the good pairs always missing out on competitions, because I doubt the fed will leave these two out of the main team. And I can't see any other pair really making waves soon. Maybe in a couple of seasons, and by then T/M will have retired.

 

[Weathergal]

He has no top pair students now.

Such a bummer Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin will miss their Worlds again, imo they deserve to compete more
than the likes of Tarasova / Morozov whom have consistency issues.

Welcome to Golden Skate, NastiaGalliamov fan! (I'm also a fan of Mishina / Galliamov! Post long and post often!

I agree it's hard to see P/K left off the team, especially since I think they're improving their artistry and becoming more polished.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Unfortunately, until T/M retire, we'll see one of the good pairs always missing out on competitions, because I doubt the fed will leave these two out of the main team. And I can't see any other pair really making waves soon. Maybe in a couple of seasons, and by then T/M will have retired.

Not sure if I interpreted correctly, but just want to say that T/M are good. They have nice classical lines, move well as a pair and their 3Tw and throw jumps are to die for when they're on. I like all (T/M, B/K, M/G, P/K) but T/M look the most polished and mature to me. Just frustrating that they seem to have traded consistency for decent choreo. I guess they're what fans would call 'cacti'.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Unfortunately, until T/M retire, we'll see one of the good pairs always missing out on competitions, because I doubt the fed will leave these two out of the main team. And I can't see any other pair really making waves soon. Maybe in a couple of seasons, and by then T/M will have retired.

The thing is that T/M are such a brilliant team when they do hit, and this season that has not been that rare. P/K are incredible too, improved a lot this year and teh fact that a team like them cannot get to worlds just shows the insane amount of depth. I hope they will get their moment soon, maybe next year, as there is potential for even more jumping.

Panfilova/Rylov Olympic champions 2022! Trusova/Kolesov 2026!

 

[LadyB]

Unfortunately, until T/M retire, we'll see one of the good pairs always missing out on competitions, because I doubt the fed will leave these two out of the main team. And I can't see any other pair really making waves soon. Maybe in a couple of seasons, and by then T/M will have retired.

Seriously? B/K are European Champions, were National Champs, second this year. M/G won a good few (gold) medals.
I think Russia has - as it had over the past decade - always at least one pair up their sleeves that can be in the world's top 3.

In fact, I believe Russia's 'problem' is that there are too many fantastic teams at the mo, only three can go to Worlds or Olys. Incredible shame, but it keeps competition going. Super sad for P/K not to be in Sweden, but that's the way selection goes.
As far as T/M are concerned, they've struggled a bit over the past two seasons but what a comeback! They look stronger than ever and in great psychological state (positive, happy, up for the challenge). I wish them, as well as B/K and M/G, the very, very best of luck!

 

[coldblueeyes]

Oh, my message was definitely ambiguous hahah. I doubt I can imagine a team without T/M because they definitely have quality, but also, they have been at it longer and have more results than other pairs in Russia. If they will continue to deliver, that’s on them.
And I meant that I don’t see another pair making waves barring the top four we have now. Some have great qualities, but it takes more than that to become a top pair after all.
And I have zero idea of what’s going to come in the time up to 2022 and the cycle ahead, but I’d say the two Mosvina teams are primed for the lead, and there are a few teams that could grow, which is why I think P/K might just be edged out again if they don’t get some more love from the judges.

 

[NastiaGalliamovfan]

The thing is that T/M are such a brilliant team when they do hit, and this season that has not been that rare. P/K are incredible too, improved a lot this year and teh fact that a team like them cannot get to worlds just shows the insane amount of depth. I hope they will get their moment soon, maybe next year, as there is potential for even more jumping.

Panfilova/Rylov Olympic champions 2022!

they have such beautiful elements, lifts
too bad they cant jump, especially triples !

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Oh, my message was definitely ambiguous hahah. I doubt I can imagine a team without T/M because they definitely have quality, but also, they have been at it longer and have more results than other pairs in Russia. If they will continue to deliver, that’s on them.
And I meant that I don’t see another pair making waves barring the top four we have now. Some have great qualities, but it takes more than that to become a top pair after all.
And I have zero idea of what’s going to come in the time up to 2022 and the cycle ahead, but I’d say the two Mosvina teams are primed for the lead, and there are a few teams that could grow, which is why I think P/K might just be edged out again if they don’t get some more love from the judges.

If Kadyrova can maintain her jumps and their pair through a growth spurt/puberty, then their jumps will help them over the others. (I am still hoping for a quad) And if Panfilova/Rylov can even get a decent 3S in competition, all of the sudden things change a lot. But you're right that right now, the top 4 are really untouchablebut I guess we will see what happens cmoe test skates in August. It's truly a shame that a team as good as P/K can't even make it to the worlds team! Same to Panfilova/Rylov, who I absolutely adore.

 

[hanca]

In general, is Dmitriev perceived as a good coach in Russia ?

Depends what you consider a good coach. He is one of the group of the coaches for elite pairs, he won Olympics twice and has also olympic silver, so as a skater he was pretty successful. As a coach, I don’t think he has been all that great. Not useless, but in the past ten years his best pair was Astakhova/Rogonov. Not a bad pair, but within their four years senior career they have always been Russian pair number 4. Twice they managed to be sent to worlds, they placed 8th and 10th and at the Olympics 12th. He had Antipova/Maisuradze for two seasons (and they were 8th at worlds), but initially he coached them together with the coach Pavlova and when Pavlova left and he became their only coach, Antipova soon after had anorexia and had to stop skating.

Dmitriev has also had several pairs that looked they could be promising and then suddenly they stopped developing. Kudriavtseva/Spiridonov looked initially so good, then she got injured, they didn’t compete for about a year and suddenly she had some mental block about landing triple throws. Since then her throws her been so inconsistent that I don’t think she landed all three within one competition.

Belova/Chigiriev also looked initially like a promising junior pair, but somehow they got stuck on the same level and stopped improving. They have never been that consistent (both of them), but also their elements never got the levels. They never had the wow factor. Everything was just alright, but not great. With the competition within Russian juniors, they needed to show more than they were doing. As their coach, shouldn’t he make sure that his skaters are achieving their maximum levels?

And whatever went wrong with the relationship between Astakhova/Rogonov and eventually leading to Astakhova retirement, I am wondering whether it was preventable, if he managed to achieve better balance between the skaters. From the interviews, it seems to me that Rogonov’s behaviour towards Astakhova was a bit patronising, like she was ‘their project’ rather than an equal partner. I am not surprised that eventually she got fed up with the situation.

 

[hanca]

And I meant that I don’t see another pair making waves barring the top four we have now. Some have great qualities, but it takes more than that to become a top pair after all.
And I have zero idea of what’s going to come in the time up to 2022 and the cycle ahead, but I’d say the two Mosvina teams are primed for the lead, and there are a few teams that could grow, which is why I think P/K might just be edged out again if they don’t get some more love from the judges.

I agree that the top four pairs are currently unreachable, but that doesn’t mean that they will be unreachable in a year or two.
Look at Boikova/Kozlovski, before the season 2019-2020 started, would people expect such progress that they would beat Tarasova/Morozov and became European champion?
Look at Mishina/Galliamov - the past few years they have been much weaker than Pavliuschenko/Khodykhin, even the last season there was still something missing. And suddenly something clicked (Moskvina did her magic) and this season they overtook P/K and are very comparable to B/K and T/M.
My point is, even though at this moment Panfilova/Rylov and Kadyrova/Balchenko are not quite there, it doesn’t mean that they can’t get there within a year or max two. Pairs often get unexpected chances. For example, Astakhova/Rogonov were Russian pair number 4, and yet out of their 4 years as seniors they went twice to worlds and once to Olympics! Or another example, in 2015 Russia had to send to worlds their pair number 3, 4 and 5, because Volosozhar/Trankov were injured and Stolbova/Klimov decided not to go to worlds (they wanted to get the quad throws and harder side by side jumps). You never know, Panfilova/Rylov or Kadyrova/Balchenko may get a chance, prove themselves at Europeans or worlds and suddenly they will be among the elite. All it takes is one breakthrough year. This is not ice dance, there is no queue. This is about who is consistent and delivers when it counts.

 

[TripleAxelQueens3]

He has no top pair students now.

Such a bummer Pavlyuchenko / Khodykin will miss their Worlds again, imo they deserve to compete more
than the likes of Tarasova / Morozov whom have consistency issues.

Yes both P/K and M/G have really improved a lot this season and it just sucks that Russia only has three Worlds spots when they have four amazing top teams. It's clear Russia has P/K has a clear number 4 by the way they score them and I do agree that out of the four they are the "weakest" (I mean they are still like Worlds podium materiall) since they probably can't challenge for gold at Worlds but still, they absolutely deserve to go to Worlds and especially with those gorgeous programs they have this season.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

But then the thing is that they struggle to get juniors to the senior level. I know it is common for juniors to split and retire for whatever reason, but of the 6 teams that were top 6 at jr nationals last year, only 3 are still skating together, and of those 3 I am only really "sure" of Panfilova/Rylov being able to remain together. In 2016 there were 6 brilliant teams that qualified for JGPF. Only Boikova/Kozlovskii survived to seniors. In 2017, 12 teams qualified for jr nationals. Only 5 were still a team the following season. But then they overcame that stage, and all 5 are still a team now (BoiKoz, PavKho, MishGal, PanRy, and AkhKol, who I consider to be the only ones who have not completely overcome the transitional phase)

 

[hanca]

But then the thing is that they struggle to get juniors to the senior level. I know it is common for juniors to split and retire for whatever reason, but of the 6 teams that were top 6 at jr nationals last year, only 3 are still skating together, and of those 3 I am only really "sure" of Panfilova/Rylov being able to remain together. In 2016 there were 6 brilliant teams that qualified for JGPF. Only Boikova/Kozlovskii survived to seniors. In 2017, 12 teams qualified for jr nationals. Only 5 were still a team the following season. But then they overcame that stage, and all 5 are still a team now (BoiKoz, PavKho, MishGal, PanRy, and AkhKol, who I consider to be the only ones who have not completely overcome the transitional phase)

But what you are describing is trend all over the world, not just Russian skating. If you look at pairs who attended junior worlds in the past few years, many of them don’t exist any more, from variety of reasons, including puberty, injuries, retirement, the girls outgrowing the guy, or they just didn’t get on. And that includes even the pairs who medalled at junior worlds, e.g. Duskova/Bidar and Alexandrovskaya/Windsor. I think this is the normal for junior pairs. They are not meant to last forever.

 

[NastiaGalliamovfan]

Panfilova / Rylov are world champions material, if they can just get those jumps.

and its not only pairs, ice dance has the most underwhelming partnerships in juniors in recent years
they dont stick that long too !!!

gone are Mcnamara / Carpenter, the Parsons, Sinitsina / Zhiganshin, Loboda / Drozd, Aldrige/Eaton
Yanovskaya / Mozgov even the recent junior champions Nguyen/Kolesnik.

Only Papadakis / Cizeron, (the deficit in ladies) namely the three : Stepanova / Bukin, Carreira / Ponomarenko and Hawayek / Luc-Baker (perhaps also Kazakova / Reviya ) have had successful transition to seniors.

But what you are describing is trend all over the world, not just Russian skating. If you look at pairs who attended junior worlds in the past few years, many of them don’t exist any more, from variety of reasons, including puberty, injuries, retirement, the girls outgrowing the guy, or they just didn’t get on. And that includes even the pairs who medalled at junior worlds, e.g. Duskova/Bidar and Alexandrovskaya/Windsor. I think this is the normal for junior pairs. They are not meant to last forever.

 

[3T3T]

One of my favourite Russian Pairs of the past Petrova/Tikhonov skated in Averbukh’s show along with their daughter Polina. I was really impressed with Alexei lifting both the ladies.

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I’m really looking forward to the World Champs and seeing all 3 Russian couples skate their very best. I’m disappointed for P/K as I really feel they are working hard to improve (which they have) and they delivered at Russian Nationals but in both the Channel 1 cup and Russian Cup final M/G were the clear winners.

Fingers crossed for a T/M victory.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

But what you are describing is trend all over the world, not just Russian skating. If you look at pairs who attended junior worlds in the past few years, many of them don’t exist any more, from variety of reasons, including puberty, injuries, retirement, the girls outgrowing the guy, or they just didn’t get on. And that includes even the pairs who medalled at junior worlds, e.g. Duskova/Bidar and Alexandrovskaya/Windsor. I think this is the normal for junior pairs. They are not meant to last forever.

I did not mention that it is special to Russian skating, but in general I do find it that the turnover rate in Russia is quicker, since there is such a wide selection of partners, especially for boys. In pairs this is more common than in ice dance, since the technical content plays a larger part and an imperfect size difference cannot be worked with. It is uncommon that you will see cases like Vislobokova, Borisova, or Panfilova in ice dance, where there is a partner who can do everything else so perfectly, but not be able to twizzle, not be able to do lifts, not be able to do do a three turn.....but in pairs there are the ones that cannot jump, those like Kudriavtseva (?) and Ialin (?) who cannot throw well, Sobinina who could not twist well, Akhanteva whose skating skills are not up to the level of her partner, Sopot could not jump (speaking of which Poluianova/Sopot would have been a nice ice dance team) and one of these things destroyed the entire team.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Side note: I noticed that the Russian ladies thread has over 1000 pages, while this one has just barely 30. I wish that more would come to love this beautiful part of our sport. I personally enjoy it way more than I ever did singles, even if it is more difficult to understand

 

[coldblueeyes]

I don’t think pairs is that difficult to understand if you already know singles. Maybe the lifts may cause you some confusion? But the other elements are more one of a kind, and when you get used to them they’re easy to spot.
And even though I would like more attention to pairs, I’m glad we can discuss a lot of things about them without getting political about the different camps.