2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating | Page 261 | Golden Skate

2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

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Congratulations world bronze medalist Alysa! I always knew she had heaps of potential. She's improved so much through a heap of tribulations the last couple of years that is great to see her rewarded for her efforts.

Also congratulations to the whole US women's team for all finishing in the top 10! That surely must be the best finish the US has had in a very very long time???

4th place at worlds is amazing for Mariah, I'd be interested to see if she chooses to retire on this high. For Karen, I'm sad that she didn't skate to how she wanted to and I wish she could end on a high on her own terms but it might not be possible with going back to uni. I wish them both luck whatever they decide.

Edit: typo! Rewarded not reserved!
 
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Congrats to Alysa who broke a couple of records this season:

1. Alysa is the only American woman skater who never score less than 200 this season. Alysa had scored 200 points or more in ALL competitions (3 ISU Challenger Series, 2 Grand Prix, 1 Olympics, 1 World) this season. 100% success rate.
2. The personal season best score 219 (CS Lombardia) is the highest among all American women skaters.
3. Alysa is the top American woman finisher at Olympics (7th place).
4. Alysa is the top American woman finisher at Worlds (Bronze)
5. Alysa broke the American woman score records at Olympics.
6. Alysa landed multiple 3A in competitions this season (Lindsay and Amber didn't land any 3A this season).

Conclusion: Alysa is America # 1 woman this season.
 
Congratulations to the US women! Of course Alysa for the bronze!!!!! How marvelous. I love their calm attitude about skating so much. And I love the way Alysa continues to work and improve on different areas of their skating all the time. Most impressive!

Just re-watched Mariah. It's funny, I was never a Mariah uber -- if any, I'm a Bradie uber -- but I find myself defending Mariah often the last season or two, for she seems to be such a target. I just watched her face in the LP - her expression does vary, she does not have a plastered-on smile the whole time. Another poster claimed "no one likes her outside the US, tbh" -- that is absolutely preposterous; I was pleasantly surprised by the praise she got from some non-USA posters in response to her GP performances, especially from those seeing her live. I haven't seen her live, but to me she does seem to have an ability to fill an arena with presence. She does convey joy, and always gives it her all (or seems to) whether it's Worlds or a smaller event. Things may not go well for her, BUT MARIAH SHOWS UP. And the poor woman, she said she was fine with it, but the only coaching support she had at WORLDS was Adam on her phone facetiming. Now, does she have ultra-c elements? Obviously not. Complex choreo? Middling, but not completely empty. Does she have a particular style of program that suits her best? Yes, yes she does. But looking at her entire career, the way she persists, the way she loves what she is doing, the way she supports other skaters -- she has plenty to praise, and I'm always glad to see her.

Karen was MESMERISING in her short. To me, that was her best performance of it despite the small jump issues because she really brought the intensity and focus, even more than usual. I don't love Butterfly Lovers for her because to me it doesn't capitalize on her power and speed. Stick with the powerful programs! Still, it's impressive that she does her own choreo. And she's another one who has persisted through ups and downs.

All in all, it was a great Worlds for the US women. Thanks for letting me vent! (if you managed to read this far, lol)
 
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skatingiscool said:
Congrats to Alysa who broke a couple of records this season:

1. Alysa is the only American woman skater who never score less than 200 this season. Alysa had scored 200 points or more in ALL competitions (3 ISU Challenger Series, 2 Grand Prix, 1 Olympics, 1 World) this season. 100% success rate.
2. The personal season best score 219 (CS Lombardia) is the highest among all American women skaters.
3. Alysa is the top American woman finisher at Olympics (7th place).
4. Alysa is the top American woman finisher at Worlds (Bronze)
5. Alysa broke the American woman score records at Olympics.
6. Alysa landed multiple 3A in competitions this season (Lindsay and Amber didn't land any 3A this season).

Conclusion: Alysa is America # 1 woman this season.
Click to expand...
And yet wasn't good enough for the team competition. :scratch2:
 
ManyCairns said:
Congratulations to the US women! Of course Alysa for the bronze!!!!! How marvelous. I love their calm attitude about skating so much. And I love the way Alysa continues to work and improve on different areas of their skating all the time. Most impressive!

Just re-watched Mariah. It's funny, I was never a Mariah uber -- if any, I'm a Bradie uber -- but I find myself defending Mariah often the last season or two, for she seems to be such a target. I just watched her face in the LP - her expression does vary, she does not have a plastered-on smile the whole time. Another poster claimed "no one likes her outside the US, tbh" -- that is absolutely preposterous; I was pleasantly surprised by the praise she got from some non-USA posters in response to her GP performances, especially from those seeing her live. I haven't seen her live, but to me she does seem to have an ability to fill an arena with presence. She does convey joy, and always gives it her all (or seems to) whether it's Worlds or a smaller event. Things may not go well for her, BUT MARIAH SHOWS UP. And the poor woman, she said she was fine with it, but the only coaching support she had at WORLDS was Adam on her phone facetiming. Now, does she have ultra-c elements? Obviously not. Complex choreo? Middling, but not completely empty. Does she have a particular style of program that suits her best? Yes, yes she does. But looking at her entire career, the way she persists, the way she loves what she is doing, the way she supports other skaters -- she has plenty to praise, and I'm always glad to see her.

Karen was MESMERISING in her short. To me, that was her best performance of it despite the small jump issues because she really brought the intensity and focus, even more than usual. I don't love Butterfly Lovers for her because to me it doesn't capitalize on her power and speed. Stick with the powerful programs! Still, it's impressive that she does her own choreo. And she's another one who has persisted through ups and downs.

All in all, it was a great Worlds for the US women. Thanks for letting me vent! (if you managed to read this far, lol)
Click to expand...

I agree with your assessment. I wouldn't consider myself a particular fan of any of these three skaters but they clearly all bring something unique to figure skating. Happy for Alysa. She completed the most technically difficult program here. She is also so down to earth and adorable. Mariah is lovely, she reflects the joy of skating, has great SS, and she is a great competitor. And, yes, many fans from all over like her. She's joyful and her skating is beautiful.

Also, agree about Karen's programs. I don't like the FS, but I really like her SP. It suits her so well and this was her best performance of it. Pops don't affect performance in the same way falls do. Mariah and Alysa seem satisfied with their season. Karen, less so. I hope she comes to terms with everything soon!
 
Jammers said:
And yet wasn't good enough for the team competition. :scratch2:
Click to expand...
I've figured it out.

I'm watching the NBC prime time replay right now, and Andrea Joyce talked to Alysa's father, and he told Andrea that he was considering not letting Alysa go to the Olympics at all because of the Chinese government spies.

He had to have told the fed he was on the fence about sending Alysa.
 
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ramurphy2005 said:
I've figured it out.

I'm watching the NBC prime time replay right now, and Andrea Joyce talked to Alysa's father, and he told Andrea that he was considering not letting Alysa go to the Olympics at all because of the Chinese government spies.

He had to have told the fed he was on the fence about sending Alysa.
Click to expand...
Karen has said she was notified either at Nats or immediately afterward that she would be skating the team event. Nathan has also stated that he offered to skate both programs.
It’s just as likely that the federation allocated spots to ensure that favored coaches (eg Tammy) had the opportunity for their athletes to nab a team medal.
 
I honestly don't understand this assumption that bias towards Karen or Tammy or both is the only possible explanation for Karen being selected for the team event, nor the assertions that it went against the selection process.

My understanding is selection for the team event was based on same criteria as selection to go to Olys. And my understanding is that all three of Karen, Mariah, Alysa were in tier 3 (Alysa would have been tier 2 if she had been top 5 at Nats, but she had to withdraw from the free.)

And it sounds like the team event selection happened at or immediately after Nats, even though it wasn't publicized probably for "strategic" reasons...

So looking at the competitions that were part of the selection process:
  • 2022 Nats - Mariah wins, but Karen very close behind. Alysa WD, but Mariah & Karen looked much better than her in the short (in retrospect probably due to Alysa coming down with Covid, but at the time a lot of people thought fallout from coaching change, social media comments indicating some disillusionment etc...)
  • 2021 GP & Challenger - Alysa clearly ahead here. Didn't see that much difference between Mariah & Karen here honestly, although admittedly Mariah did seem to be trending upward...
  • 2021 Worlds - Karen is obviously the winner here (and picked up a lot of goodwill by "saving" Olympics spots for the 2nd time.)
  • 2021 Nats - Karen in 3rd place is highest finisher of these three women, by a good margin; Alysa still looked had some work to do at this phase of her post-growth/post-injury journey, and Mariah had a very rough freeskate at Nats.
Given all this, I can see an argument for any of the three women to be selected for team event. I feel like everybody saying there is no possible rational argument for Karen is either forgetting 2021 Worlds or forgetting it was part of the selection criteria.

I am NOT arguing with those who believe Karen wasn't the best choice for team event. I'm just saying that given the selection criteria, I don't see her selection at the time as being obviously wrong or obviously biased...
 
corinthia said:
I honestly don't understand this assumption that bias towards Karen or Tammy or both is the only possible explanation for Karen being selected for the team event, nor the assertions that it went against the selection process.

My understanding is selection for the team event was based on same criteria as selection to go to Olys. And my understanding is that all three of Karen, Mariah, Alysa were in tier 3 (Alysa would have been tier 2 if she had been top 5 at Nats, but she had to withdraw from the free.)

And it sounds like the team event selection happened at or immediately after Nats, even though it wasn't publicized probably for "strategic" reasons...

So looking at the competitions that were part of the selection process:
  • 2022 Nats - Mariah wins, but Karen very close behind. Alysa WD, but Mariah & Karen looked much better than her in the short (in retrospect probably due to Alysa coming down with Covid, but at the time a lot of people thought fallout from coaching change, social media comments indicating some disillusionment etc...)
  • 2021 GP & Challenger - Alysa clearly ahead here. Didn't see that much difference between Mariah & Karen here honestly, although admittedly Mariah did seem to be trending upward...
  • 2021 Worlds - Karen is obviously the winner here (and picked up a lot of goodwill by "saving" Olympics spots for the 2nd time.)
  • 2021 Nats - Karen in 3rd place is highest finisher of these three women, by a good margin; Alysa still looked had some work to do at this phase of her post-growth/post-injury journey, and Mariah had a very rough freeskate at Nats.
Given all this, I can see an argument for any of the three women to be selected for team event. I feel like everybody saying there is no possible rational argument for Karen is either forgetting 2021 Worlds or forgetting it was part of the selection criteria.

I am NOT arguing with those who believe Karen wasn't the best choice for team event. I'm just saying that given the selection criteria, I don't see her selection at the time as being obviously wrong or obviously biased...
Click to expand...
But there was a big difference between Karen and the other women on the GP/Challenger. Mariah has the best score among the Americans on the GP circuit; Alysa has the best Challenger marks. Alysa concluded the GP season season with 9 points, Mariah being right behind with 10, and Karen a distant third among the three with 15.

And the criteria does not occur in a vacuum. It’s a curious strategy for the fed to dispense assignments at Nats or immediately afterward without any assessment of conditions closer to the event given how much circumstances can fluctuate (eg Karen herself blamed her performance at the Olympics on an injured ankle and Alysa looked much better closer to the Games). Plus, there’s Nathan’s account that he was interested in skating both programs, which would have meant that not just one woman would have circumstantially had to be selected. Instead, the fed went with an allocation that more or less guaranteed Raf, Tom Z, and Tammy each walking away with a medal from the TE.
 
Speaking of Clare, Lindsay, and Isabeau, here's how they scored internationally stats-wise (and against some of their biggest rivals).

1. Isabeau Levito - average score is 205.33
  • JGP France II - 71.25 + 131.10 = 202.35
  • JGP Austria - 71.32 + 136.99 = 208.31
2. Lindsay Thorngren - average score is 186.46
  • JGP France I - 62.63 + 118.82 = 181.45
  • JGP Slovenia - 70.24 + 123.53 = 193.77
  • CS Warsaw Cup - 60.75 + 123.65 = 184.40
  • Challenge Cup - 54.87 + 131.35 = 186.22
3. Clare Seo - average score is 174.83
  • JGP France I - 63.43 + 111.37 = 174.80
  • JGP Gdansk - 62.19 + 112.67 = 174.86
Isabeau's a well rounded skater who's constantly received some of the highest performance components throughout the season. Additionally, Isabeau has yet to receive an under-rotation call this season. Furthermore, her jumps (all of her combinations are also backloaded) usually receive immensely high grade of execution. Lindsay, on the other hand, has been attempting the triple-Axel (and has probably competed way too much) which threw off her consistency and does not receive the highest performance components. However, Lindsay does receive great grade of execution on her jumps and is the most gifted jumper out of the three. Clare, although amazing, struggles with under-rotation calls (she's coached by Tammy). If Clare were to rotate all her jumps, she would consistently be scoring in the high 180s to 190s. Usually, after reviews, Clare loses about 6-7 points in the short and 10-12 points in the free.

The highest scoring skaters at Junior Worlds:
1. Isabeau Levito, 208.31
2. Lindsay Thorngren, 193.77
3. Wi Seo-yeong, 193.30
4. Rinka Watanabe, 190.84
5. Niina Petrokina, 188.86
6. Nina Pinzarrone, 186.10
7. Jia Shin, 183.41
8. Rion Sumiyoshi, 178.02
9. Clare Seo, 174.83
10. Ahsun Yun, 170.24
 
Jammers said:
And yet wasn't good enough for the team competition. :scratch2:
Click to expand...
I guess COVID and coach change impact her chance for team event selection chance. She lost a week of ice training due to COVID following national
corinthia said:
I honestly don't understand this assumption that bias towards Karen or Tammy or both is the only possible explanation for Karen being selected for the team event, nor the assertions that it went against the selection process.

My understanding is selection for the team event was based on same criteria as selection to go to Olys. And my understanding is that all three of Karen, Mariah, Alysa were in tier 3 (Alysa would have been tier 2 if she had been top 5 at Nats, but she had to withdraw from the free.)

And it sounds like the team event selection happened at or immediately after Nats, even though it wasn't publicized probably for "strategic" reasons...

So looking at the competitions that were part of the selection process:
  • 2022 Nats - Mariah wins, but Karen very close behind. Alysa WD, but Mariah & Karen looked much better than her in the short (in retrospect probably due to Alysa coming down with Covid, but at the time a lot of people thought fallout from coaching change, social media comments indicating some disillusionment etc...)
  • 2021 GP & Challenger - Alysa clearly ahead here. Didn't see that much difference between Mariah & Karen here honestly, although admittedly Mariah did seem to be trending upward...
  • 2021 Worlds - Karen is obviously the winner here (and picked up a lot of goodwill by "saving" Olympics spots for the 2nd time.)
  • 2021 Nats - Karen in 3rd place is highest finisher of these three women, by a good margin; Alysa still looked had some work to do at this phase of her post-growth/post-injury journey, and Mariah had a very rough freeskate at Nats.
Given all this, I can see an argument for any of the three women to be selected for team event. I feel like everybody saying there is no possible rational argument for Karen is either forgetting 2021 Worlds or forgetting it was part of the selection criteria.

I am NOT arguing with those who believe Karen wasn't the best choice for team event. I'm just saying that given the selection criteria, I don't see her selection at the time as being obviously wrong or obviously biased...
Click to expand...

Honestly, it doesn't matter at this point. It's happy ending for everyone in team USA.

Alysa won Bronze at World + top American women finish at Olympics + top American women in World standing (#6)
Karen won Team Event silver at Olympics
Mariah won two small bronze medals and national

Here is latest ISU World standings:


Alysa Liu - #6
Karen Chen - #10
Mariah Bell - #13
Bradie Tennell - #17
Starr Andrews - #23
 
natsulian said:
Speaking of Clare, Lindsay, and Isabeau, here's how they scored internationally stats-wise (and against some of their biggest rivals).

1. Isabeau Levito - average score is 205.33
  • JGP France II - 71.25 + 131.10 = 202.35
  • JGP Austria - 71.32 + 136.99 = 208.31
2. Lindsay Thorngren - average score is 186.46
  • JGP France I - 62.63 + 118.82 = 181.45
  • JGP Slovenia - 70.24 + 123.53 = 193.77
  • CS Warsaw Cup - 60.75 + 123.65 = 184.40
  • Challenge Cup - 54.87 + 131.35 = 186.22
3. Clare Seo - average score is 174.83
  • JGP France I - 63.43 + 111.37 = 174.80
  • JGP Gdansk - 62.19 + 112.67 = 174.86
Isabeau's a well rounded skater who's constantly received some of the highest performance components throughout the season. Additionally, Isabeau has yet to receive an under-rotation call this season. Furthermore, her jumps (all of her combinations are also backloaded) usually receive immensely high grade of execution. Lindsay, on the other hand, has been attempting the triple-Axel (and has probably competed way too much) which threw off her consistency and does not receive the highest performance components. However, Lindsay does receive great grade of execution on her jumps and is the most gifted jumper out of the three. Clare, although amazing, struggles with under-rotation calls (she's coached by Tammy). If Clare were to rotate all her jumps, she would consistently be scoring in the high 180s to 190s. Usually, after reviews, Clare loses about 6-7 points in the short and 10-12 points in the free.

The highest scoring skaters at Junior Worlds:
1. Isabeau Levito, 208.31
2. Lindsay Thorngren, 193.77
3. Wi Seo-yeong, 193.30
4. Rinka Watanabe, 190.84
5. Niina Petrokina, 188.86
6. Nina Pinzarrone, 186.10
7. Jia Shin, 183.41
8. Rion Sumiyoshi, 178.02
9. Clare Seo, 174.83
10. Ahsun Yun, 170.24
Click to expand...
I’m really rooting for Isabeau and Lindsay to deliver :cheer:
 
I do not follow the women, but the most logical conclusion for me is that Alysa did not skate the Team Event due to the attempted intimidation from the Chinese government.

Arthur Liu was first targeted in *October*. “We believed Alysa had a very good chance of making the Olympic team and truly were very scared,” So, before any selections were made for Team Event, the intimidation began.

Alysa was not chosen for the TE because Alysa's father was quite rightfully minimizing the amount of time she would spend in China. Some things are even more important than Olympic medals.

I for one am not side-eyeing or blaming USFS for this one.🤷‍♀️
 
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