2021-22 Japanese Women's Figure Skating

[Joekaz]

I am very happy about how this olys went from many angles. Wakaba landing her 3As, Wakaba and Kaori having so much fun together, Kaori pulling off fully clean programs (she never has meltdown skates, but she pops sometimes, UGH), and of course, the bronze!!! Of course, we all wish Mana could have had better skates (she's such a lovely skater when she hits) and Wakaba could also have gone fully clean (that Lion King program was awe-inspiring at IdF), but, alas, can't have them all. Mana still has time - I have faith that she'll be able to continue to develop. I have hopes for Kaori and Wakaba at Worlds as well (SURELY we can't see a repeat of what happened in 2018... unless...)

I do agree with the above posters that Mai makes more sense for a Worlds pick. While Kaori is consistent, Wakaba unfortunately still isn't and there are just too many fantastic JP ladies around for the nation to potentially go down to 2 spots. On a sentimental level, I also feel like it'd be cruel to deny Mai a Worlds spot after the year she's had, especially since she's been getting more lenient calls this year. Of course, one can tell from my pfp that I may be a little biased, and JSF isn't exactly known for making smart decisions... but let a girl dream.

Mana was already picked for World's.

 

[RatedPG]

Kaori's bronze performance reminded me kind of Arakawa's Olympic performance. Both were solid without taking unnecessary risks and let their opponents implode. I was also reminded of how one year ago at World's Kaori skated about the same with probably a better program, but was ridiculously fifth behind Chen,when the US needed to secure 3 spots. The way she was judged there reminded me of Wakaba here. Very strict tech calls for her, but lenient for Chen. Lowballed on GOE and PCS. Almost as if the judges are not honest. Lol I was also curious if Rika returns healthy next season, would she still be able to beat Kaori, with the way Sakamoto seems to being scored now?

Sadly the placement of Kaori was sixth at 2021 Worlds. I couldn’t believe it as she skated well and her Matrix program was amazing. I would have put her in bronze at that competition.

 

[gotoschool]

Mai was supported all year, but made huge mistakes that cost her at Nats. Removing Mana would be the worst thing you could do for her now. She needs to get right back on that horse.

Really insistent on Wakaba's unjust scoring by the JSF, which I agree with to some extent, but what a difference when Mai is mentioned. Mai's feelings and achievements after coming back from a debilitating disease evidently aren't up for consideration. I would really like to see Mana and Mai at both events since I like their skating a lot but the ridiculous selection criteria prevents this. The JSF's decision was clearly made to give Coach Hamada a Japanese skater at Olympics and Worlds since she had so much pull after coaching Rika and Satoko and in their absence a deep seated needed to compensate her was perceived doing Mai a great injustice. I really like Mana but this alternative reality created by the biased JSF does not coincide with international results and she would have finished third anyway with fair judging. In addition to the extensive international results this season which go against the JSF's biased decision, this can clearly seen in the overlooked tech calls in Mana's Nationals LP, especially in stark contrast to her tech calls in the Olympics, and Mana's relatively inflated PCS score compared to Mai at Nationals. In any case, splitting the difference and giving each a chance at Worlds and the Olympics and a better chance at securing three positions makes more sense. Mana is six years younger and has plenty of time to recover.

 

[Joekaz]

Really insistent on Wakaba's unjust scoring by the JSF, which I agree with to some extent, but what a difference when Mai is mentioned. Mai's feelings and achievements after coming back from a debilitating disease evidently aren't up for consideration. I would really like to see Mana and Mai at both events since I like their skating a lot but the ridiculous selection criteria prevents this. The JSF's decision was clearly made to give Coach Hamada a Japanese skater at Olympics and Worlds since she had so much pull after coaching Rika and Satoko and in their absence a deep seated needed to compensate her was perceived doing Mai a great injustice. I really like Mana but this alternative reality created by the biased JSF does not coincide with international results and she would have finished third anyway with fair judging. In addition to the extensive international results this season which go against the JSF's biased decision, this can clearly seen in the overlooked tech calls in Mana's Nationals LP, especially in stark contrast to her tech calls in the Olympics, and Mana's relatively inflated PCS score compared to Mai at Nationals. In any case, splitting the difference and giving each a chance at Worlds and the Olympics and a better chance at securing three positions makes more sense. Mana is six years younger and has plenty of time to recover.

I wouldn't have complained if they split the difference originally, but it wouldn't be fair to change now.

 

[DLong]

I'm so thrilled that Kaori's won a bronze medal. I've been a big fan of Kaori for four years. I love her speed, skating skills and her jumps. Her performance was wonderful and I'm so happy. I also really love Wakaba's skating. My pefect podium would have had both of them on it. I love Wakaba's short and long program. I've been hoping all season she would get to the Olympics, and I'm so happy that she will have either a bronze or silver team medal too. I loved it when Wakaba gave Kaori a great big hug. These ladies are so classy and a wonderful representative of Japan.

 

[RafaelAstro]

Well this olympics weren't bad, compared to the last ones where no japanese lady won a medal, here wakaba and kaori won a bronze medal in the team event plus another bronze medal for kaori in the ladies event, I'm so happy for them, japan is the federation that can fight the russians in the ladies field even tho they are underscored

 

[silveruskate]

Kaori keeps growing and getting better! She was undoubtedly better in PCS compared to Wakaba in the SP. That is kind of a milestone for her as some people think they cannot even be compared in PCS (even though I always thought Kaori was much better). I hope this bronze really frees her up for a Worlds medal. And staying one or two seasons at least to see if she can improve her tech I hope.....Kaori trying a 3F-3Lo or 3A would be fan-tas-tic.

She first made me a fan from that Worlds 2019 SP. I've always loved how she emotes. So proud of her.

 

[Placebo11]

Any news about Rika? Will she come back next season?

 

[Joekaz]

Kaori keeps growing and getting better! She was undoubtedly better in PCS compared to Wakaba in the SP. That is kind of a milestone for her as some people think they cannot even be compared in PCS (even though I always thought Kaori was much better). I hope this bronze really frees her up for a Worlds medal. And staying one or two seasons at least to see if she can improve her tech I hope.....Kaori trying a 3F-3Lo or 3A would be fan-tas-tic.

She first made me a fan from that Worlds 2019 SP. I've always loved how she emotes. So proud of her.

The biggest advantage Kaori has over Wakaba in PCS is Federation support. You could see this competition was pretty much predermined by who received lenient judging and who were harshly judged. The only thing that put Kaori from 4th to 3rd was Valieva bombing. Both Korean women and Wakaba were harshly judged. The Russians and Kaori were leniently judged. Wakaba's points she gained over Kaori for the 3As minus the fall should have given Wakaba the edge over Sakamoto, if they would have been judged fairly.

 

[silveruskate]

The biggest advantage Kaori has over Wakaba in PCS is Federation support. You could see this competition was pretty much predermined by who received lenient judging and who were harshly judged. The only thing that put Kaori from 4th to 3rd was Valieva bombing. Both Korean women and Wakaba were harshly judged. The Russians and Kaori were leniently judged. Wakaba's points she gained over Kaori for the 3As minus the fall should have given Wakaba the edge over Sakamoto, if they would have been judged fairly.

No offence but you saying it doesn't make it true. The biggest advantage Kaori has is being a much better skater than Wakaba.

 

[Joekaz]

No offence but you saying it doesn't make it true. The biggest advantage Kaori has is being a much better skater than Wakaba.

That is only your opinion which is no more important than mine. But, I don't wish to rain on Kaori's parade. So I will congratulate her on a fine performance and leave it at that, my friend.

 

[silveruskate]

That is only your opinion which is no more important than mine. But, I don't wish to rain on Kaori's parade. So I will congratulate her on a fine performance and leave it at that, my friend.

I'm happy to admit that it's an opinion, I just presented it the same way you did like what you're saying is fact. And when you keep pushing the JSF thing like it's fact it is also devaluing Kaori by saying it's her biggest advantage which is absolutely not true.

 

[Joekaz]

I'm happy to admit that it's an opinion, I just presented it the same way you did like what you're saying is fact. And when you keep pushing the JSF thing like it's fact it is also devaluing Kaori by saying it's her biggest advantage which is absolutely not true.

We just disagree. You don't know what is true anymore than I do. But if you think the federations don't favor some skaters over others in every country, and influence the scores, you must not have watched skating very long.

 

[silveruskate]

We just disagree. You don't know what is true anymore than I do. But if you think the federations don't favor some skaters over others in every country, and influence the scores, you must not have watched skating very long.

I'm not the one that keeps pushing this theory above everything else though - as though it is fact. We don't even talk about the technical where Kaori has been miles better. Wakaba doesn't even have a stable 3-3 while Kaori has the best in the business. Just recently did she even get the 3A and now landed 2 so fair she can now try and compete. Before this competition they weren't even on the same level. Skater was 20 points behind for a reason.

Once she skates everything clean and crisp with the 3A she will be better sure.

 

[Joekaz]

I'm not the one that keeps pushing this theory above everything else though - as though it is fact. We don't even talk about the technical where Kaori has been miles better. Wakaba doesn't even have a stable 3-3 while Kaori has the best in the business. Just recently did she even get the 3A and now landed 2 so fair she can now try and compete. Before this competition they weren't even on the same level. Skater was 20 points behind for a reason.

Once she skates everything clean and crisp with the 3A she will be better sure.

If Kaori is miles better technically, why doesn't she do a 3A or at least two 3/3 combos in her LP, like Higuchi does. And her one 3/3 is a less difficult one than Wakaba's. Shouldnt she be trying to get all the points she can, to get closer to the Russian tech scores? Plus, won't she need more firepower if Rika comes back healthy next year?

 

[readernick]

I would say Kaori's scores were correct. However, Wakaba's scores weren't. I don't know if anyone watched "Olympic Ice" but after the SP they discussed the scores and all the former skaters said Wakaba was robbed. The judges were harsher on her than the Russians both in terms of technical calling and components. Of course, the Russians always receive such favoritism so that's no surprise. But, the former skaters all felt she deserved the same PCS as Valieva and Kaori and everyone else ( Including Anna / Sasha) should have been a bit lower just based on the quality of SS, movement, and musicality. Kaori has many good qualities but also weaknesses like all skaters. I don't think you can argue she is a "better" skater than Wakaba. Yes, she has the best SS in the world among the women but Wakaba's are very good, too. Wakaba is far superior at responding to music and upper body control.

 

[Joekaz]

The problem with this conversation is that you get fans of skaters(like me) who get emotionally involved with arguing about a sport that is in reality fake. The subjective nature of the sport combined with the obvious corruption and political influence in the judging make it as realistic as pro wrestling at times. The ridiculously uneven and unfair way this event was judged makes that obvious, just as the way Kaori was blatantly ripped off at last years World's. Its like the ISU enjoys spitting in the face of their own fans.

 

[silveruskate]

If Kaori is miles better technically, why doesn't she do a 3A or at least two 3/3 combos in her LP, like Higuchi does. And her one 3/3 is a less difficult one than Wakaba's. Shouldnt she be trying to get all the points she can, to get closer to the Russian tech scores? Plus, won't she need more firepower if Rika comes back healthy next year?

You realise points-wise 2A-3T makes no difference compared to the infamous 3-3 and technically is better because of the 3T GOE factoring being counted? Wakaba has 3Lz-3T UR and fall there's no comparison. Kaori optimised with the backloading of 2 combos and high GOE on all jumps this cycle. Wakaba chased the 3A but didn't solve her other shortcomings. We can see who did better at the Olympics.

Now Kaori has the Olympic singles bronze she's playing with house money. Clearly her strategy worked. I hope she tries to upgrade technically and just goes out with a bang whatever happens because she achieved everything she wanted to.

 

[Joekaz]

You realise points-wise 2A-3T makes no difference compared to the infamous 3-3 and technically is better because of the 3T GOE factoring being counted? Wakaba has 3Lz-3T UR and fall there's no comparison. Kaori optimised with the backloading of 2 combos and high GOE on all jumps this cycle. Wakaba chased the 3A but didn't solve her other shortcomings. We can see who did better at the Olympics.

Now Kaori has the Olympic singles bronze she's playing with house money. Clearly her strategy worked. I hope she tries to upgrade technically and just goes out with a bang whatever happens because she achieved everything she wanted to.

It is not true that the combos are of equal value if you do them both well. My point was that Wakaba's layout is much harder. You even agree that you want Kaori to upgrade her tech, so I don't know what you are still arguing about. I agree with you that Kaori's
layout is smarter because of the risk reward aspect. As a matter of fact I would say Kaori is the best managed skater by her coach in the world, as far as maximizing her abilities. I have said she skated great. But she, along with the Russians were judged much more leniently than everyone else, especially Wakaba, You and Kim. That was obvious to everyone.

 

[Joekaz]

Although I have often been critical of Kaori's upper body movement, I thought she looked better in her gala performance. I have heard she was taking ballet lessons, so it is good to see she is working on all aspects of her skating.