2021-22 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating

[Lutzedge]

I think it's time for C/J to acknowledge that they won't pull off two sets of SBS triples in the LP. They should do a 3S and a 2lz/2t/2t combo. All of their non SBS elements are world class, and they need to max out TES.

I agree. I wonder if they can do double axels. I remember Haven and Brandon medaled at GP events doing a triple by itself, and a double axel in combination. That might work for C/J too.

 

[Lutzedge]

Regarding Calalang/Johnson:
A 3S/2T combo (which I believe is what they plan) is worth 5.60 points. A 2A/2T/2T combo is worth 5.90 points. If they can do good double axels, then the combo mentioned 2nd could be a pretty good choice for them.

 

[gold12345]

I agree. I wonder if they can do double axels. I remember Haven and Brandon medaled at GP events doing a triple by itself, and a double axel in combination. That might work for C/J too.

C/J did double axels with their previous partners. But do they want to take a step backward like that.

Double axels used to be prevalent in Sr pairs, but they have since disappeared and virtually everyone in the upper echelon of pairs is attempting 2 SBS triple jump passes. This is why pair girls like Haven Denney and Tarah Kayne tried for years to get a second triple so that they could replace their 2A and move forward. It used to be that jump sequences were allowed in pairs, so a 2A-2A sequence was common for teams with only 1 triple. But once sequences weren't allowed anymore, 2As began to disappear.

Even if the point differential isn't that much, in terms of optics, having a 2A in your program these days is like flashing a neon sign that says "we are weaker jumpers". When everyone else is doing two triples, a 2A puts you behind and isn't as impressive. You might be able to backdoor your way into a good result and maybe C/J could sneak past Cain/LeDuc or something, but you'd have to rely on others messing up, and if you want to be taken more seriously, you try 2 triples. The pairs discipline has moved past 2A- it seems clear they want pairs trying triples and making mistakes instead of just doing 2A.

If you take a triple out, the chances of ever landing it again under the pressures and stresses of high level competition become far slimmer because now you're not even trying it. I remember C/J once doing a planned 2T-2T and 3S at a small competition, and they still botched the 3S. So I'm not sure how much taking out a triple helps their psyche or how they'd be perceived.

 

[Lutzedge]

C/J did double axels with their previous partners. But do they want to take a step backward like that.

Double axels used to be prevalent in Sr pairs, but they have since disappeared and virtually everyone in the upper echelon of pairs is attempting 2 SBS triple jump passes. This is why pair girls like Haven Denney and Tarah Kayne tried for years to get a second triple so that they could replace their 2A and move forward. It used to be that jump sequences were allowed in pairs, so a 2A-2A sequence was common for teams with only 1 triple. But once sequences weren't allowed anymore, 2As began to disappear.

Even if the point differential isn't that much, in terms of optics, having a 2A in your program these days is like flashing a neon sign that says "we are weaker jumpers". When everyone else is doing two triples, a 2A puts you behind and isn't as impressive. You might be able to backdoor your way into a good result and maybe C/J could sneak past Cain/LeDuc or something, but you'd have to rely on others messing up, and if you want to be taken more seriously, you try 2 triples. The pairs discipline has moved past 2A- it seems clear they want pairs trying triples and making mistakes instead of just doing 2A.

If you take a triple out, the chances of ever landing it again under the pressures and stresses of high level competition become far slimmer because now you're not even trying it. I remember C/J once doing a planned 2T-2T and 3S at a small competition, and they still botched the 3S. So I'm not sure how much taking out a triple helps their psyche or how they'd be perceived.

They could just work on trying to get their SBS jumps consistent. I am not sure why they don't have them down well yet. At the 2020 Nationals, when they beat the Knierims in the FS, they had both triples down. Hopefully they will get them on track soon.

 

[gold12345]

They could just work on trying to get their SBS jumps consistent. I am not sure why they don't have them down well yet. At the 2020 Nationals, when they beat the Knierims in the FS, they had both triples down. Hopefully they will get them on track soon.

That 2020 Nationals LP was the one time they've landed both jumps. And it came after a rough jump in the SP. It's a little like Mariah Bell- she had a "skate of her life", and since then, she's been searching. Realistically, I don't think C/J can be "cured" of jump woes and so I don't dwell on it. Certain skaters are more natural jumpers than others and hold up better under high stress/pressure. Calalang is prone to underrotations which makes it harder. So I just appreciate what they're good at, and whatever the jumps are, they are. It's unlikely to ever be their strength. But I would be surprised if they take out a triple because it feels like going backwards.

 

[skylark]

C/J did double axels with their previous partners. But do they want to take a step backward like that.

Double axels used to be prevalent in Sr pairs, but they have since disappeared and virtually everyone in the upper echelon of pairs is attempting 2 SBS triple jump passes. This is why pair girls like Haven Denney and Tarah Kayne tried for years to get a second triple so that they could replace their 2A and move forward. It used to be that jump sequences were allowed in pairs, so a 2A-2A sequence was common for teams with only 1 triple. But once sequences weren't allowed anymore, 2As began to disappear.

Even if the point differential isn't that much, in terms of optics, having a 2A in your program these days is like flashing a neon sign that says "we are weaker jumpers". When everyone else is doing two triples, a 2A puts you behind and isn't as impressive. You might be able to backdoor your way into a good result and maybe C/J could sneak past Cain/LeDuc or something, but you'd have to rely on others messing up, and if you want to be taken more seriously, you try 2 triples. The pairs discipline has moved past 2A- it seems clear they want pairs trying triples and making mistakes instead of just doing 2A.

If you take a triple out, the chances of ever landing it again under the pressures and stresses of high level competition become far slimmer because now you're not even trying it. I remember C/J once doing a planned 2T-2T and 3S at a small competition, and they still botched the 3S. So I'm not sure how much taking out a triple helps their psyche or how they'd be perceived.

This is a very good explanation of the complex reasons why C/J, or any other pair, wants to be a team who does triples, not 2A.

So why did you have to ruin it by taking a totally unnecessary dig at C-G/L?

 

[skylark]

USFS Fanzone article, 10/20/21, on Chelsea Liu and Danny O'Shea, detailing their journey back to the ice, why and how.

Out of Retirement, Chelsea Liu and Danny O’Shea Seek Joy at 2021 Skate America - U.S. Figure Skating

Danny O'Shea didn't formally announce his retirement after 2020 Guaranteed Rate Skate America, but he knew he needed a break. In 2019, Chelsea Liu had also stepped

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

As many of us have alluded to in our marvelling over Chelsea and Danny, it's clear that recaptivating their joy is recaptivating us, too.

Excerpt:

Both agreed to a tryout last December at Liu's home rink in Irvine, California. At first, the pair practiced for fun when O'Shea was in town every couple of weeks. They noted their compatible long lines and jump timing, but neither was ready to commit to a new competitive partnership unless the fit was perfect.

"I went through a couple of trials with other partners, but I knew I needed a partner and a training space that checked off all of my boxes," O'Shea said. "Chelsea and her rink felt supportive and safe and natural, so I kept coming back."

In March, after nearly four months of relaxed tryouts, Liu and O'Shea made it official

"On our breaks during that tryout period, we would walk around and get to know each other," Liu said. "We quickly gained an understanding and appreciation for each other's paths and the obstacles we overcame to get back to skating."

"We realized we shared one goal: to reclaim love for the sport," O'Shea said. "We wanted to feel that childlike wonder on the ice every day."

 

[skylark]

These quotes were on another forum. I doubt "Fix You" will ever be my favorite Alexa/Brandon skate. But reading what Brandon said about it makes me feel more kindly toward it. From now on, whenever I watch their FS, I'll be thinking about his words.

Knierim & Frazier talked about their programs during the Team USA virtual media summit that was held on Monday - Alexa on their SP:

Our short program is House Of The Rising Sun, and I think we chose this music because it really highlights our strengths and power as a team. And it has a bit of freedom and kind of wild energy that we feel is exciting and can bring the audience a lot of joy and pleasure watching.

"Fix You" was Brandon's idea for their FS - in his words:

The free program actually was something I brought to the table. It's been a piece that I've actually wanted to use for a very long time as being a competitor. And when I brought it to Alexa and the team and explained to them just my feelings behind it, it's kind of one of those songs that I have a personal connection to. And I always saw myself wanting to skate to it. And Alexa and the team were very supportive about it. We played with it and our choreographer listened to it and we all thought it was a great piece. And for me, it's very personal this year. So I'm very excited to get it out there and showcase it.

 

[moonvine]

USFS Fanzone article, 10/20/21, on Chelsea Liu and Danny O'Shea, detailing their journey back to the ice, why and how.

Out of Retirement, Chelsea Liu and Danny O’Shea Seek Joy at 2021 Skate America - U.S. Figure Skating

Danny O'Shea didn't formally announce his retirement after 2020 Guaranteed Rate Skate America, but he knew he needed a break. In 2019, Chelsea Liu had also stepped

usfigureskatingfanzone.com

As many of us have alluded to in our marvelling over Chelsea and Danny, it's clear that recaptivating their joy is recaptivating us, too.

Excerpt:

Please don’t retire after this season guys.

 

[skylark]

Please don’t retire after this season guys.

Of course I'm not discounting that anything can happen in figure skating, and I don't have a crystal ball to see their future. But they're having so much fun that I can imagine them continuing. Danny's such a solid pairs man, and Chelsea is coming so charmingly and beautifully into her own.

 

[Spiralgraph]

These quotes were on another forum. I doubt "Fix You" will ever be my favorite Alexa/Brandon skate. But reading what Brandon said about it makes me feel more kindly toward it. From now on, whenever I watch their FS, I'll be thinking about his words.

Knierim & Frazier talked about their programs during the Team USA virtual media summit that was held on Monday - Alexa on their SP:

"Fix You" was Brandon's idea for their FS - in his words:

Maybe because I'm a big fan of the Shibs and "Fix You" will always be their signature song in my eyes, it's hard for me to like that cover version of Fix You for K/F.
But if Alexa and Brandon enjoy skating to it and it helps them skate better, I won't object too much. But they are inviting comparisons to a team that won two Olympic medals in 2018.

 

[skylark]

Maybe because I'm a big fan of the Shibs and "Fix You" will always be their signature song in my eyes, it's hard for me to like that cover version of Fix You for K/F.
But if Alexa and Brandon enjoy skating to it and it helps them skate better, I won't object too much. But they are inviting comparisons to a team that won two Olympic medals in 2018.

Yes, I forgot to mention the Maia/Alex connection, which many many people share your feelings about. And yeah, the comparison, if that automatically pops into people's heads.

I am in a distinct minority, in that I always think of the Shibs skating to Michael Jackson!

I do love 'House of the Rising Sun' for K/F! It's my favorite program of theirs so far.

 

[MCsAngel2]

I just wanted to say I was at SA this past weekend, and Danny and Chelsea were my favorite team to watch. They have AMAZING chemistry and they legitimately look like they are having fun. Alexa and Brandon have another year on them, and they still are working on their chemistry/connection.

 

[skylark]

I just wanted to say I was at SA this past weekend, and Danny and Chelsea were my favorite team to watch. They have AMAZING chemistry and they legitimately look like they are having fun. Alexa and Brandon have another year on them, and they still are working on their chemistry/connection.

I'm so jealous that you got to see them live! Yet, I had exactly the same reaction as you did. They were simply the best to watch, for fun, for synchronicity, for connection. All the pairs competing had their own qualities, but Chelsea and Danny have something special. And, I wish I didn't think this, but I'm not sure Alexa and Brandon are even working on their chemistry/connection. Their priorities seem to be all about getting the elements. However, what they're doing is working, so how would they be motivated to give any attention to a genuine connection as a pair.

With Chelsea and Danny, it seems effortless, but it also seems very clear that they care about it and they're committed to developing it. It doesn't earn points per se, but that sort of thing is so clear to audiences.

I really enjoyed Peacock's coverage. Partly because the practices were covered so well. I've always enjoyed being at practices, and at this event I could see the skaters so clearly and closely that it felt more like being there.

 

[momrk]

Maybe because I'm a big fan of the Shibs and "Fix You" will always be their signature song in my eyes, it's hard for me to like that cover version of Fix You for K/F.
But if Alexa and Brandon enjoy skating to it and it helps them skate better, I won't object too much. But they are inviting comparisons to a team that won two Olympic medals in 2018.

The Shibs Fix You is one of my all time favorites, and I rewatch it from Nationals often- that said, I have to say, after reading what Brandon said, I have a better appreciation of K/F skating to it.

 

[noskates]

I loved Fix You when the Shibs skated to it but pairs is a completely different discipline and quite possibly many won't make the comparison. I hope fervently that ALL the top pairs stay together for a change. I think that's why the US hasn't been more successful in some cases because the pairs change partners or retire.

 

[moonvine]

I loved Fix You when the Shibs skated to it but pairs is a completely different discipline and quite possibly many won't make the comparison. I hope fervently that ALL the top pairs stay together for a change. I think that's why the US hasn't been more successful in some cases because the pairs change partners or retire.

Every time I hear “Fix You,” I think the Shibs just like every time I hear “Rocketman” I think Nathan and every time I hear. “Perfect” I think Keegan.

 

[el henry]

Every time I hear “Fix You,” I think the Shibs just like every time I hear “Rocketman” I think Nathan and every time I hear. “Perfect” I think Keegan.

I would have said that at first, but I don't think that with Alexa and Brandon's LP. Maybe it's the cover? I really don't think of the Shibs when I watch it. I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. ETA: I generally enjoy Alexa and Brandon. Just I also sometimes have a difficult time separating out iconic music from the skaters.

However, I will never hear Bolero and not see purple chiffon. Unless it's Sholero.

 

[coldblueeyes]

There's also something about double axels: would these teams that have so much trouble with triples be able to land them with more consistency? If so, I would be all for that. A cleaner program also leaves a better impression on the judges, and with time, I don't think these teams would be capped at lower scores. Judges don't only reward risk, if you go out there and consistently skate good programs, your scores are going to go up (the comparison might not be the best, but when Aljona and Bruno stopped going for the 3A, and became more consistent, their scores went up)

But if the judges expect you to not land your jumps on a regular basis, then they'll definitely be compelled not to reward you either.

 

[skylark]

There's also something about double axels: would these teams that have so much trouble with triples be able to land them with more consistency? If so, I would be all for that. A cleaner program also leaves a better impression on the judges, and with time, I don't think these teams would be capped at lower scores. Judges don't only reward risk, if you go out there and consistently skate good programs, your scores are going to go up (the comparison might not be the best, but when Aljona and Bruno stopped going for the 3A, and became more consistent, their scores went up)

But if the judges expect you to not land your jumps on a regular basis, then they'll definitely be compelled not to reward you either.

It's a good comparison, I think, and a good point. I've re-watched the 2017-18 skates when Aljona and Bruno were attempting the throw 3A, and even when they landed it, the little stumbles or the sheer effort took away something elusive but greatly desired: that impression of a complete work of art. Whereas re-watching La Terre Vue au Ciel from olympics or worlds 2018, that feeling of "something more" is fully present. The thing that elevates a program from mere skating to something thrillingly transcendent.

As soon as I typed that, I realized that for me, that transcendent experience isn't always the same. Both Vincent Zhou's programs at SA gave me that full appreciation for a fully realized, complete experience. Nathan Chen's programs have frequently been that way for me, notwithstanding all the people complaining about 'choreography' being missing. IMO, such folks may be looking for one tree, and missing the forest,. His programs are choreographed to show and experience something else. And at the Russian test skates, Sasha Trusova's programs did the same for me! Man, I couldn't believe how I finally "got" her! and now I can see and enjoy her. It helped that the two programs allow her to fully express something.