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- Aug 12, 2014
Really? You don't watch Nationals? They were 4th last year, and 6th the previous 2. Before that, they were juniors. I'll give you a tickler: Jumps are their strength.
2021-22 U.S. Pairs Figure Skating
- Thread starter skylark
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I'm not really into Pairs. I only saw Alexa once when she was with Chris and I wanted to see how things went with Brandon. Did they have a bad day? Do you still see Alexa and Brandon as our #1 Pair?Really? You don't watch Nationals? They were 4th last year, and 6th the previous 2. Before that, they were juniors. I'll give you a tickler: Jumps are their strength.
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- Aug 12, 2014
I'm just teasing you a little, mrrice.
But ... not into Pairs? How Dare You? 
Hm. I'm not really into the horse race aspect of it all. I just love to watch the skating. Today she had a very unusual fall (for her) on a throw triple flip. And she didn't do the combo, and had a bauble on the single jump, and they had one markdown on a spin. There was every possibility for them to win this event; they were only half a point behind after the sp.
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- Jun 26, 2012
Audrey and Misha did really well. They're not the most sophisticated pair around but they do get their jumps. They were third in the SP and second in the FS which got them the gold because they were the most consistent during the course of the competition. Good for them!
Regrettably Alexa and Brandon had an off day while I think the same applies to Jessica and Brian (although I missed half of what they did due to an absent Camera man/woman - ouch!).
Regrettably Alexa and Brandon had an off day while I think the same applies to Jessica and Brian (although I missed half of what they did due to an absent Camera man/woman - ouch!).
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- Aug 12, 2014
As I watched Audrey and Misha, I thought of Scott Hamilton's adage that the best strength is not to have a weakness. Well, I'd like them to have more expression and performance ... but they do have strong elements.
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- Jan 10, 2014
Out of curiosity (since I am not as up on pairs as I should be) was it that Audrey and Misha skated so well, or is that Alexa and Brandon skated so badly?
Please don't misunderstand me- I like both pairs, but A/B are usually ranked pretty high, so I am trying to figure out the scoring, since I haven't been able to find the programs on you tube just yet.
Please don't misunderstand me- I like both pairs, but A/B are usually ranked pretty high, so I am trying to figure out the scoring, since I haven't been able to find the programs on you tube just yet.
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- Nov 23, 2019
L/M skated about as well as they can skate and it was the worst I’ve seen K/F skate except maybe one of those online video submissions they did last fall. So, while K/F do need to figure out what’s going on and regroup to be about 9 points behind is really not that much and in my opinion they are still clearly US #1. However, another bad skate at Nationals could leave them off the team event at the Olympics (I think it’s pretty much a no brainer that they will make the team). Also, she looked hurt after the skate, she was holding her upper back and sitting weird in the K and C. Hopefully it’s just a minor soreness from that rough fall!
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- Mar 14, 2007
Please tell me she’s not injured.I'm just teasing you a little, mrrice.
Hm. I'm not really into the horse race aspect of it all. I just love to watch the skating. Today she had a very unusual fall (for her) on a throw triple flip. And she didn't do the combo, and had a bauble on the single jump, and they had one markdown on a spin. There was every possibility for them to win this event; they were only half a point behind after the sp.
I think I jinxed Alexa & Brandon yesterday talking about their good combination of steadiness+potential for very high scores, and how they'll easily win this event with their normal free skate. It was really unexpected for them to skate like that. They did a fantastic throw triple loop, but elsewhere it just wasn't a normal skate for them. For many other pairs, that would be a fine score, but for them it was just far from their usual. Maybe this will take the edge off and release some of the pressure to deliver one strong skate after another and always be undefeated against US pairs. Nathan Chen probably felt a similar type of relief, just on a different scale. The skaters need to know it's okay to have a rough day. It's not normal, or necessary, for a 1-year-old pair to skate strongly every time and to have it all figured out. They need to relax and not consume themselves with results and expectations. Use this chance to put themselves in the mindset of chasing people instead of being the ones being chased.
Alexa fell pretty hard on her back and was still holding her neck/shoulder area coming off the ice. It could be a bit of whiplash, hopefully just soreness. She can typically always save a throw, but this one was too off.
Audrey & Misha skated their best, but scored pretty average for clean programs. They're solid jumpers, with not as good pair elements, but they were very steady. Their throws are very low and delayed in rotation, so sometimes she'll fall pretty hard like at Rostelecom Cup, but in general it seems to help them skate cleaner the less height she gets off the ice. It's just not big GOE worthy. They lucked out in that James/Radford completely walked through their twist in the SP, Alexa/Brandon really botched the FS, and Artemeva/Nazarychev had 3 falls.
Alexa & Brandon just needed to keep the errors to a minimum to win, but instead it was a snowball of things that culminated in a crazy fall. The throw flip has been one of her strongest and most consistent elements in her career, so they need to figure that out. They do +5 ones in practice. The way they do a great twist one week and then look like they forgot how to do it the next is also something to work on. Her 3Ts have been so solid in competition, so that 3T stepout felt like more of a fluke.
Alexa fell pretty hard on her back and was still holding her neck/shoulder area coming off the ice. It could be a bit of whiplash, hopefully just soreness. She can typically always save a throw, but this one was too off.
Audrey & Misha skated their best, but scored pretty average for clean programs. They're solid jumpers, with not as good pair elements, but they were very steady. Their throws are very low and delayed in rotation, so sometimes she'll fall pretty hard like at Rostelecom Cup, but in general it seems to help them skate cleaner the less height she gets off the ice. It's just not big GOE worthy. They lucked out in that James/Radford completely walked through their twist in the SP, Alexa/Brandon really botched the FS, and Artemeva/Nazarychev had 3 falls.
Alexa & Brandon just needed to keep the errors to a minimum to win, but instead it was a snowball of things that culminated in a crazy fall. The throw flip has been one of her strongest and most consistent elements in her career, so they need to figure that out. They do +5 ones in practice. The way they do a great twist one week and then look like they forgot how to do it the next is also something to work on. Her 3Ts have been so solid in competition, so that 3T stepout felt like more of a fluke.
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Yes and yes. Knierim/Frazier realistically have the most potential to score very high among our pairs. They have also been the best in the SP, which is important with 10 teams in the SP in the Olympic team event. They are least likely to score under 65 among our pairs (the only US pair never below that number this season), and the most likely to score over 70, if not 75 if they're at their best. They've been as high as 76. They also have the 3 highest LP scores among US pairs, and they haven't gone fully clean yet.
I've looked at the scores various different ways, and they have the highest scores, the highest average scores, the highest median... I recalculated all the numbers adding these Golden Spin scores and it didn't change much since they still got a decent score. They've surpassed the 200 point barrier several times. In comparison, Lu/Mitrofanov and Calalang/Johnson have never reached that number. Most of the time Cain/LeDuc didn't get very close to 200, but then hit it once, aided by quite a lenient jump rotation call (odd because the judges haven't given them any favors in any other event).
Average scores this season. I then dropped the lowest score for each pair to allow for a rougher event, which they all had to various degrees, and put those averages in parentheses.
Knierim/Frazier-- 201.95 (205.77 if you drop their 186.69)
Calalang/Johnson-- 193.10 (195.62 if you drop their 180.49)
Cain-Gribble/LeDuc-- 189.08 (195.23 if you drop their 170.64)
Lu/Mitrofanov-- 185.10 (191.67 if you drop their 158.81)
Liu/O'Shea-- 172.68
K/F's rough event was "least rough" by a decent margin. By dropping the lowest scores, the gap between K/F and the other pairs gets larger, and the other 3 top pairs get more tightly packed together. C/J and C-G/L are practically tied when you drop their lowest score, but I think C-G/L might have done a little better as of late. It's obvious to me K/F should be in the team event when I analyze everything and I wish I could just put them in it already and let them relax on that front.
Lu/Mitrofanov have strong jumps. Their pair elements aren't that strong. They are skating cleaner than they ever have, but kinda doing the least on the throws and twist, and just trying to get through the lifts (which he's done better lately). Right now they have to skate very clean and also get significant help from other teams.
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- Mar 6, 2012
Thank you for this insight. Alexa and Brandon just had a rough skate but overall have delivered strong programs and better for them to get this out now and reset for the rest of the season.
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- Jul 9, 2014
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I always felt that by that comment Scott meant, having elements that were strong enough not to bring everything else down, scores-wise. That's what I meant by my comment about Audrey and Misha ... in particular their last few competitions.
I think Misha struggled with the lifts because Audrey did grow, a lot, since they were paired. I saw a picture of them once, early on, when she looked barely above his waist!
And she's 5'4" now. So that's been a challenge. I think they've gained strength significantly on the lift front this year. At least the last couple of competitions, I don't recall being nervous for the lifts.
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- Aug 12, 2014
That's an awful feeling, isn't it? I've had it, so I sympathize. But nah, we don't have that power.
But that's how the sport works. I think it's cool to celebrate that Audrey and Misha are getting this boost in confidence and self-belief. And we all watch partly because the unpredictability of the competition is exciting!
I read on another forum that the USFS guidelines for selection to Worlds and Olympics specify that the trajectory of a team's scores over the season will be part of the equation. So if that's the case, it may or may not be solely a matter of averages and numbers.
Slightly
There's a good explanation for what happened to James/Radford's lift in the SP on the youtube video of it. I was worried that it might have been Eric's injury acting up. But when I watched it in slow motion, I could see that when Vanessa picked in for the twist, her skate slipped a little. She tried it again, but apparently Eric didn't feel it was safe to go ahead and toss her up. (Well done, Eric!) I had help seeing this -- a comment on the video is where someone explained, but I first saw it when @4everchan posted about it in the SP pairs thread.
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- Jan 28, 2013
I was puzzled earlier in the year because Misha looks like he's a strong young man, and pressing her up shouldn't be as hard as they made it look.I always felt that by that comment Scott meant, having elements that were strong enough not to bring everything else down, scores-wise. That's what I meant by my comment about Audrey and Misha ... in particular their last few competitions.
I think Misha struggled with the lifts because Audrey did grow, a lot, since they were paired. I saw a picture of them once, early on, when she looked barely above his waist!
I agree that the lifts were much better in this competition, which leads me to believe that it might have been an issue with technique. Or maybe a combo of strength and technique. At any rate, they've improved.
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- Jul 26, 2003
2021–22 ISU Challenger Series - Wikipedia
The ISU standings are not updated for Zagreb, but the Wikipedia file has been updated.
Looks like Calalang & Johnson finished second overall in the Challenger's Series, based on their Finlandia & Warsaw skates. Only your top two of three Challengers scores count, so their Zagreb score dropped.
K&F and L&M and L&O did not complete two events.
Cain Gribble & Leduc only did two events and struggled at ACI in Canada, so they finished lower down.
Tarasova & Morozov won.
Since you are just a fan it is quite exusable and forgivable. Sometimes competitive skaters don't know well enough their colleagues from other disciplines. Yesterday Hana Cvijanovic, a Croatia's single skater, being a commentator's assistant introduced Audrey and Misha as a new team and said that Audrey was a singles skater two years ago.
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- Sep 1, 2020
@mrrice, You've never heard of Lu/Mitrofanov??? I suppose then that you've never had an opportunity to watch a full U.S. Nationals pairs event. I can see that being the case if you are not from the U.S., and thus not familiar with U.S. teams beyond the top two to three. Audrey & Misha have placed fourth and below at U.S. Nationals in prior years. They won the 2018 junior pairs championship at U.S. Nationals, and they train at the Skating Club of Boston with Russian coaches (Aleksei Letov & Olga Ganicheva). ETA: I see that you said you aren't a huge pairs fan, so I suppose you don't watch full pairs competitions then. If you had done so for U.S. Nationals, you couldn't have missed seeing Audrey & Misha.
Also, fyi: in my previous comments in the GS Zagreb competition thread, I was referencing C/J regarding how they could have ended their fall season with an uplifting performance at Warsaw Cup. So my thoughts were more toward wondering whether C/J might have been better served by staying home and practicing. But it was their decision to make, and they can still try to get into the right mindset for U.S. Nationals.
So, okay, this was another step in the learning process. File it away, move forward. Don't beat yourself up. But you have got to know and to believe that you can do it in the moment, the next time. If you have too many nerves and fears about grabbing opportunities that are there for the taking, that's a problem. I don't know that this is the case for either Alexa or Brandon. I'm not saying that it's completely about nerves. But they do seem to tighten up, when they need to be looser, focused, and determined.
(As an aside, Chelsea Liu, also tightened up a bit too much regarding her jumps. That speaks of some doubts, or anxiety about landing cleanly, or technical issues. Of course, right now Chelsea/Danny should only be thinking about taking the time they need to recover, and I wish them a safe and full recovery. In the beginning of the season, Chelsea/Danny started out well, but then for whatever reason, Chelsea's ability to land jumps cleanly began to worsen. But Chelsea/Danny are a new team, with adjustments to make, so I hope they can safely recover and return to training.
I liked what I saw from K/F on the GP. But, they have to get on the same page, so that they are both in sync, instead of one messing up here, and another there. I'm not sure what's going on with their 3-twist. It hasn't been horrible, but it seems off from their usual form. I always enjoy watching them, and I hope I can get back to feeling that they feel confident and capable of overcoming the hurdles to skate with more consistency.
Since this wasn't a major competition, they needed to be ready to take advantage of posting good numbers and making the podium. While it isn't necessarily a loss that they didn't make the podium at least, and first place at best, it is still a competition for K/F and C/J where they didn't step up. Let's see how they process it moving forward.
Granted, but this was also an opportunity to just go for it and show themselves that they could do it, especially in the absence of top Russian and Chinese teams. They've had a number of competitions with some hiccoughs and so forth, including 2021 Worlds, to learn something from. At some point, there has to be a solution, or a resolve about mental preparation, and finding a competitive strategy that works. I'm not saying that it's easy, and I don't know much about it in terms of all that's involved in being a front-line athletic competitor. Just from where I stand, I know they both have years of experience with their former partners. And it is so tremendous that from those wonderful partnerships, a new and exciting team has been formed. They have shown how overjoyed they are for this new opportunity to achieve their pairs goals.
Also, fyi: in my previous comments in the GS Zagreb competition thread, I was referencing C/J regarding how they could have ended their fall season with an uplifting performance at Warsaw Cup. So my thoughts were more toward wondering whether C/J might have been better served by staying home and practicing. But it was their decision to make, and they can still try to get into the right mindset for U.S. Nationals.
So, okay, this was another step in the learning process. File it away, move forward. Don't beat yourself up. But you have got to know and to believe that you can do it in the moment, the next time. If you have too many nerves and fears about grabbing opportunities that are there for the taking, that's a problem. I don't know that this is the case for either Alexa or Brandon. I'm not saying that it's completely about nerves. But they do seem to tighten up, when they need to be looser, focused, and determined.
(As an aside, Chelsea Liu, also tightened up a bit too much regarding her jumps. That speaks of some doubts, or anxiety about landing cleanly, or technical issues. Of course, right now Chelsea/Danny should only be thinking about taking the time they need to recover, and I wish them a safe and full recovery. In the beginning of the season, Chelsea/Danny started out well, but then for whatever reason, Chelsea's ability to land jumps cleanly began to worsen. But Chelsea/Danny are a new team, with adjustments to make, so I hope they can safely recover and return to training.
I liked what I saw from K/F on the GP. But, they have to get on the same page, so that they are both in sync, instead of one messing up here, and another there. I'm not sure what's going on with their 3-twist. It hasn't been horrible, but it seems off from their usual form. I always enjoy watching them, and I hope I can get back to feeling that they feel confident and capable of overcoming the hurdles to skate with more consistency.
Yeah, the event wasn't about trying to beat L/M, by no means. Alexa/Brandon just had to skate after L/M had scored very well with good reception from the audience for L/M's performance. So, if this was what K/F needed to learn together: Trying to ignore another competitor's great performance, when you need to go out immediately afterward with your game face, and a calm focus on doing your program the way you can, with no other thoughts in your head -- then hopefully they've learned how they need to approach that. But as veteran pairs skaters, they should have a sense of how to do that already.
Since this wasn't a major competition, they needed to be ready to take advantage of posting good numbers and making the podium. While it isn't necessarily a loss that they didn't make the podium at least, and first place at best, it is still a competition for K/F and C/J where they didn't step up. Let's see how they process it moving forward.
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- Sep 1, 2020
Thanks for your breakdown on the standings. I would say Ash/Timothy struggled more with convincing the judges to give them deserved scores. And, they prevailed by winning 3 bronze medals (ACI in Canada, Finlandia Trophy, and Skate Canada, plus a 4th place at NHK, with 70 in the sp). I'm not sure 'struggled at ACI' is representative of A&T pulling out a medal at ACI. If you're strictly speaking of overall scores, you should still take into account that Ash/Timothy had a very good Fall season on the GP, especially in light of Ash having to battle back from COVID, at the start of the season!
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- Sep 1, 2020
Responding in this thread since it's appropriate here:
Thanks so much for referencing Tai & Randy. For me, they always remain relevant. I was slightly older than you when I followed their career during the 1970s. I knew next to nothing about figure skating then. I was on the way to learning by listening to Dick Button's commentary!
Regarding Audrey & Misha, I think that Misha's wrist injury seems hopefully healed now. They are showing wonderful progression in developing more connection and projecting more. I think it was Charlie White (I miss his commentary) who said during a former U.S. National event that Audrey & Misha are aware that they need to project more. Charlie said they have talked it through and acknowledged how it's difficult for them to project more on the ice because they both have introvert personalities. I think their coaches are doing an excellent job of guiding them and finding music and choreography to aid in improving weaknesses and enhancing strengths.
Everyone can always use a wake-up call. So maybe it's all good. What I love about U.S. pairs is that to my knowledge, they all seem to be friendly and supportive of each other. Of course, they all want to win, but I've noticed that they exhibit a great deal of sportsmanship amongst each team, for other teams. That's a good sign.
The battle at the top will be heated, but it's always good to have depth, and to learn from battling each other, and cheering each other on. Right now, I'm thinking K/F and C-G/LD for Olympics, and maybe K/F and C/J for Worlds, and sending L/M and C/J with perhaps Chan/Howe to 4CCs. Of course, it all comes down to what happens on the ice, and among the selection committee, afterward.
BTW, it was Tai & Randy who inspired my passion for pairs skating, and for figure skating generally. I hope you have a copy of their book, Skating Two As One, with Martha Lowder Kimball.
With so little time until nationals, it seems the veterans are getting more jittery and Audrey & Misha more solid. An upset could be in the making or this is the wake up call the veterans needed. US National pairs will be fascinating, terrifying and heartbreaking at the same time.
About the young skaters, it is important to note that I grew up watching a 13 & 15 year old Tai & Randy make the world team.
Tai & Randy 1973 US Jr Nationals
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Tai & Randy 1974 US Nationals - 2nd place
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Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
Thanks so much for referencing Tai & Randy. For me, they always remain relevant. I was slightly older than you when I followed their career during the 1970s. I knew next to nothing about figure skating then. I was on the way to learning by listening to Dick Button's commentary!
Regarding Audrey & Misha, I think that Misha's wrist injury seems hopefully healed now. They are showing wonderful progression in developing more connection and projecting more. I think it was Charlie White (I miss his commentary) who said during a former U.S. National event that Audrey & Misha are aware that they need to project more. Charlie said they have talked it through and acknowledged how it's difficult for them to project more on the ice because they both have introvert personalities. I think their coaches are doing an excellent job of guiding them and finding music and choreography to aid in improving weaknesses and enhancing strengths.
Everyone can always use a wake-up call. So maybe it's all good. What I love about U.S. pairs is that to my knowledge, they all seem to be friendly and supportive of each other. Of course, they all want to win, but I've noticed that they exhibit a great deal of sportsmanship amongst each team, for other teams. That's a good sign.
The battle at the top will be heated, but it's always good to have depth, and to learn from battling each other, and cheering each other on. Right now, I'm thinking K/F and C-G/LD for Olympics, and maybe K/F and C/J for Worlds, and sending L/M and C/J with perhaps Chan/Howe to 4CCs. Of course, it all comes down to what happens on the ice, and among the selection committee, afterward.
BTW, it was Tai & Randy who inspired my passion for pairs skating, and for figure skating generally. I hope you have a copy of their book, Skating Two As One, with Martha Lowder Kimball.
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