2021-22 US Ice Dance

[SnowWhite]

Since we have looked at US teams versus each other, let's see how they competed this season.
...
So if you were USFSA, would you send anyone in the top two places to the Olympics, other than C&B and H&D?

The question is whether you leave Hawayek & Baker in third. Unless H&B improve significantly before Nationals, they will not finish third there. The question then will be do they go to Olympics on Body of Work.

The World's team is also a consideration. C&B are staying in, but H&D say they are retiring after this season. They might or might not choose to go to Worlds.

I think G&P, H&B, and C&P need to go to 4CCs to fight it out for the third spot on the US team.

I don't agree that statement. It's definitely true that Green/Parsons have been stronger in the RD than H/B were at their one event so far, but if I'm understanding you right you''re not just talking about the RD here. You're saying that unless H/B improve significantly, they'll lose to G/P overall at Nats, right? The scores this season don't really support that.

For the record, H/B scored a 187.62 at Rostelecom. That's less than one point lower than G/P's best score this season, 188.43 at ACI (also got 187.84 at Warsaw with errors, but the scores there were really high all around). G/P's best on the Grand Prix was 186.51. So right now these two teams are scoring right in the same range. It's definitely not a sure thing that H/B beat G/P at Nats, but they aren't way behind at this point.

 

[slider11]

I think Hawayek and Baker have a really strong FD this year that should help them clinch an Olympic bid. It is so refreshing to see pure dancing to a pure classical piece. I also really like Green and Parsons' very original FD but I don't think they are quite there in technical skills and artistry. Definitely a team for the next cycle but, for me, I think H/B grab the third spot.

 

[dorispulaski]

The OP was that H&B we're a shoo in for 3rd , along with H&D in first and C&B in second.

The scores show that while H&D and C&B are likely to take the first two places, it is not clear in what order.

And H&B are not a shoo in for third. G&P could win bronze. Or not

 

[readernick]

Personally, I like G/P's RD more than H/B. I enjoyed both of their FDs. Over the two programs, G/P have superior material imho
However, I agree with the previous poster that H/B are a "better" from a technical and artistic point of view. They are a more mature team. Caroline Green is an incredible ice dancer but she just turned 18. Michael is also very talented but needs to improve some aspects of performance. I do expect that fight for bronze will be interesting. However, I also think H/B have an advantage in this fight.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Ice dance judging maddens me because barring something crazy happening like more than one fall,
H/D is the US #1 team, C/B #2 and H/B #3 and they will finish that way regardless of how they actually skate.

Yes, it's been this way forever, in terms of the politics of judging and scoring. However, in recent years, H/D and C/B have made things interesting, based on who had the program with the best buzz, right! In any case, in terms of programs this season, and in terms of overall talent, that ranking might be accurate, aside from the fact that Green/Parsons are coming on strong for the third spot vs Hawayek/Baker.

There are many more gut-wrenching, disgusting issues with the way ice dance is scored internationally, especially in recent years with the Russians' push to dominate ice dance and to grab deserved dominance away from North American teams.

 

[lurkerghost1]

USA should really fluff up the scores for all 4 top teams at nationals. Russia is setting up David/Smolkin as their top team next season which the US should take advantage of, because it’s so obvious that Hawayek/Baker are way better.

 

[auser]

due to USFSA making them change their RD after Champs Camp

Wow.. Thanks Doris. Somehow this escaped my awareness(or I forgot as my brain is a sieve lately). If there is a post you can point me to that elucidates USFSA's objections to that RD, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[dorispulaski]

Wow.. Thanks Doris. Somehow this escaped my awareness(or I forgot as my brain is a sieve lately). If there is a post you can point me to that elucidates USFSA's objections to that RD, I would greatly appreciate it.

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The most they talked about it was in this episode about "Last Minute Changes." The old RD was to Sade, and the monitors were not excited by it. C&B decided to change.

They also talked about it in the first episode of their Unlaced podcast. Talk about their new programs begins about 5 minutes in.

Unlaced with Chock and Bates: Episode 1: The Season Begins

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[dancelion21]

Golden Spin has now concluded, congratulations to Hawayek/Baker on winning!

Their free dance score is higher than any score that Green/Parsons got in the fall, so this is great for their momentum going into US Nationals.

This was also a pretty big win for Bratti/Somerville, beating out Cesanek/Yehorov. B/S are certainly one of the favorites for the last 4CC spot, but there will be a lotof competition from Pate/Bye and Wolfkostin/Chen as well.

ISU CS 53rd GOLDEN SPIN OF ZAGREB 2021 - ICE DANCE

 

[moonvine]

Yes, it's been this way forever, in terms of the politics of judging and scoring. However, in recent years, H/D and C/B have made things interesting, based on who had the program with the best buzz, right! In any case, in terms of programs this season, and in terms of overall talent, that ranking might be accurate, aside from the fact that Green/Parsons are coming on strong for the third spot vs Hawayek/Baker.

There are many more gut-wrenching, disgusting issues with the way ice dance is scored internationally, especially in recent years with the Russians' push to dominate ice dance and to grab deserved dominance away from North American teams.

And that’s not ok and surely doesn’t add to anyone’s enjoyment while watching.

 

[ZeldaJo21]

Golden Spin has now concluded, congratulations to Hawayek/Baker on winning!

Their free dance score is higher than any score that Green/Parsons got in the fall, so this is great for their momentum going into US Nationals.

This was also a pretty big win for Bratti/Somerville, beating out Cesanek/Yehorov. B/S are certainly one of the favorites for the last 4CC spot, but there will be a lotof competition from Pate/Bye and Wolfkostin/Chen as well.

ISU CS 53rd GOLDEN SPIN OF ZAGREB 2021 - ICE DANCE

I was so happy to see Hawayek/Baker take Gold!!! But I am very surprised to see how well Bratti/Somerville did considering they just recently paired up as a new team. I truly thought C/Y would have scored better against them

 

[dancelion21]

I was so happy to see Hawayek/Baker take Gold!!! But I am very surprised to see how well Bratti/Somerville did considering they just recently paired up as a new team. I truly thought C/Y would have scored better against them

Yeah, Bratti/Somerville have been one of the big surprises of the season in terms of how well they've performed as a new team. They scored really well at a US Championship Series early in the season, and they beat both Wolfkostin/Chen and McNamara/Spiridonov at a Challenger event earlier in the season. Now, they've beat Cesanek/Yehorov as well. The only competition for the last 4CC spot they haven't competed directly against yet is Pate/Bye. It'll be quite interesting since Pate/Bye scored 171.70 at US Classic and 171.00 at Warsaw Cup while Bratti/Somerville scored 172.24, so their PBs are extremely close.

In terms of season PB
1) Chock/Bates - 210.78 (NHK)
2) Hubbell/Donohue - 209.54 (SkAm)
3) Hawayek/Baker - 191.32 (Golden Spin)
4) Green/Parsons - 188.43 (Autumn Classic)
5) Carreira/Ponomarenko - 178.27 (Finlandia)
6) Bratti/Somerville - 172.24 (Golden Spin)
7) Pate/Bye - 171.70 (US Classic)
8) Cesanek/Yehorov - 166.61 (Golden Spin)
9) Wolfkostin/Chen - 165.01 (JGP France)
10) McNamara/Spiridonov - 161.82 (US Classic)

 

[ZeldaJo21]

Yeah, Bratti/Somerville have been one of the big surprises of the season in terms of how well they've performed as a new team. They scored really well at a US Championship Series early in the season, and they beat both Wolfkostin/Chen and McNamara/Spiridonov at a Challenger event earlier in the season. Now, they've beat Cesanek/Yehorov as well. The only competition for the last 4CC spot they haven't competed directly against yet is Pate/Bye. It'll be quite interesting since Pate/Bye scored 171.70 at US Classic and 171.00 at Warsaw Cup while Bratti/Somerville scored 172.24, so their PBs are extremely close.

In terms of season PB
1) Chock/Bates - 210.78 (NHK)
2) Hubbell/Donohue - 209.54 (SkAm)
3) Hawayek/Baker - 191.32 (Golden Spin)
4) Green/Parsons - 188.43 (Autumn Classic)
5) Carreira/Ponomarenko - 178.27 (Finlandia)
6) Bratti/Somerville - 172.24 (Golden Spin)
7) Pate/Bye - 171.70 (US Classic)
8) Cesanek/Yehorov - 166.61 (Golden Spin)
9) Wolfkostin/Chen - 165.01 (JGP France)
10) McNamara/Spiridonov - 161.82 (US Classic)

Thank you for the breakdown on PB for each team!

 

[lurkerghost1]

Yeah, Bratti/Somerville have been one of the big surprises of the season in terms of how well they've performed as a new team. They scored really well at a US Championship Series early in the season, and they beat both Wolfkostin/Chen and McNamara/Spiridonov at a Challenger event earlier in the season. Now, they've beat Cesanek/Yehorov as well. The only competition for the last 4CC spot they haven't competed directly against yet is Pate/Bye. It'll be quite interesting since Pate/Bye scored 171.70 at US Classic and 171.00 at Warsaw Cup while Bratti/Somerville scored 172.24, so their PBs are extremely close.

In terms of season PB
1) Chock/Bates - 210.78 (NHK)
2) Hubbell/Donohue - 209.54 (SkAm)
3) Hawayek/Baker - 191.32 (Golden Spin)
4) Green/Parsons - 188.43 (Autumn Classic)
5) Carreira/Ponomarenko - 178.27 (Finlandia)
6) Bratti/Somerville - 172.24 (Golden Spin)
7) Pate/Bye - 171.70 (US Classic)
8) Cesanek/Yehorov - 166.61 (Golden Spin)
9) Wolfkostin/Chen - 165.01 (JGP France)
10) McNamara/Spiridonov - 161.82 (US Classic)

Praying for Hubbell/Donohue to win the short and Chock/Bates the free at nationals like usual. They really deserve to both be in the team event and I'm worried the US will put two women in instead so Mariah or Karen can get a medal for marketing purposes. I love Mariah and Karen more than Hubbell/Donohue actually but that would not be fair.

 

[readernick]

Praying for Hubbell/Donohue to win the short and Chock/Bates the free at nationals like usual. They really deserve to both be in the team event and I'm worried the US will put two women in instead so Mariah or Karen can get a medal for marketing purposes. I love Mariah and Karen more than Hubbell/Donohue actually but that would not be fair.

If the USF does that, they are stupid. The US is full of wonderful ice dancers and not exactly brimming with talent on the ladies side. ( Bradie was great until her injury but she already has an Olympic team medal). Just going to the Olympics would be a major victory for the US ladies sent. However, the ice dancers really deserve more than that given their talent.

 

[moonvine]

Praying for Hubbell/Donohue to win the short and Chock/Bates the free at nationals like usual. They really deserve to both be in the team event and I'm worried the US will put two women in instead so Mariah or Karen can get a medal for marketing purposes. I love Mariah and Karen more than Hubbell/Donohue actually but that would not be fair.

For whatever Adam’s word is worth, in his book he says the highest ranked skater chooses first, which would be Nathan. Then the next highest, which would be either H/D or C/B. If these skaters choose to only skate one segment, that’s it. No more substitutions would happen.

 

[dancelion21]

For whatever Adam’s word is worth, in his book he says the highest ranked skater chooses first, which would be Nathan. Then the next highest, which would be either H/D or C/B. If these skaters choose to only skate one segment, that’s it. No more substitutions would happen.

It's worth noting that H/D and C/B have the same coaches. Their coaches may have already convinced both teams to split the events since it's quite mutually beneficial. It helps the coaches to say that more of their teams got Olympic medals. This is slightly different compared to 2018, when the Shibs were the top US dance team, but all three top dance teams trained with separate coaches, and the relationships between the three teams were significantly more frosty than they are now.

The wording of the team selection document ultimately does mean that USFS kinda has veto power if they feel that it is extremely necessary. So just praying that they don't decide ladies should get two spots just because of the historic significance of the discipline, even though it can be argued that ladies is probably the weakest discipline of all of them at this point, while dance is certainly the strongest in terms of depth of talent.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I am very surprised to see how well Bratti/Somerville did considering they just recently paired up as a new team.

Bratti/Somerville looked really good at their first international event this season at Cup of Austria. Bratti matches Somerville's skillset a bit better than his former partner of two years, Kat DelCamp (who found a new partner in Britain's Billy Wilson-French -- they appear to match very well too, as they are closer in age and still in juniors). Kat has a great opportunity to further develop, skating for Great Britain, and coached by Chris Dean and Mark Hanretty. At the moment, Kat & Billy are training in the U.S. with John Kerr and Alper Ucar.

DelCamp/Somerville looked good together, but Ian was more skilled and he was going to age out of juniors next season, while Kat has two more seasons of junior eligibility (including this season). Plus, other U.S. teams in junior ice dance were catching up with or had passed Kat/Ian in the standings. So all told, it has been a good decision for Ian to find another partner (closer to his level) with whom he could move to seniors this season, to gain experience and exposure in advance of the expected retirement of at least Hubbell/Donahue.

I heard that Chock/Bates are considering continuing (but probably not for four years).

BTW, Emily Bratti previously competed in junior ice dance with Mathieu Couyras for France. But she trained in Maryland with Kiliakov/Novak, in the same training camp as Ian Somerville. So Emily/Ian have likely known each other for awhile. Plus, they would have the same training styles/background, which would make their new partnership not so difficult. Knowing each other previously and having the same training background gives them an advantage vs new partners who have to get to know each other, and who may have different training styles.

Emily Bratti and Ian Somerville - Figure Skating - U.S. Figure Skating Fan Zone

Emily Bratti and Ian Somerville (7) She/Her | He/Him - CAREER ACCOMPLISHMENTS U.S. bronze medalist (2024) 2023-24 SEASON NOTES RD Music: "When Doves

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^^ I wonder why that says 2020-21 season? It must be an error. They surely didn't pair up until sometime earlier this year. Their bio says they paired up in July 2021.

 

[dorispulaski]

Getting to Know: Emily Bratti & Ian Somerville – Ice-dance.com

www.ice-dance.com

While Bratti & Somerville had previously trained at Wheaton Academy in MD before they teamed up in July, they are currently with Greg Zuerlein, Charlie and Tanith White in Canton, MI. In the above article, they describe being, basically, the sole focus of the Michigan Ice Dance Academy while it is getting up and running for its March 2022 opening.

 

[dancelion21]

So in the pre-Nationals teleconference, Madison Hubbell said that she and Zach Donohue added a bunch of knee slides into their midline step in the rhythm dance on the suggestion of Halina at GP Italy. This just seems like a terrible idea that is certain to get them some fall deductions. Not to mention the glaring issue of their slightly illegal combination lift in the free dance that's been lucky to avoid a call this fall. At this point, it just feels like pure self sabotage.

https://twitter.com/S_V_Knight/status/1473078064942833669