2021 Nebelhorn Trophy: Men's Free Skate

[Flying Feijoa]

No one skates like Jason. Even Yuzuru Hanyu at his finest doesn't have the detail oriented, perfectly executed choreography combined with seeming abandoned freedom of Jason imho. That being said, while Zhou's skating doesn't usually move me, I appreciate his seemingly honest emotion on the ice. He is really trying with all his heart and I applaud that. He gets over marked in SS and transitions ( like most skaters with multiple quads) , his posture isn't great, he doesn't extend his limbs fully but he is always progressing. I like skaters who work hard and want to improve even if they aren't my ideal type of skater.

The German commentator was adorable!

On a tangent but I'd say there are/have been people who skate somewhat like Jason (Jeff Buttle comes to mind). Yuzuru's got the SS and a specific type of artistry, but in terms of the emphasis on detailed choreo and bodily control, skaters like Tatsuki Machida, Denis Ten, or Joshua Farris have a style closer to Jason's than he does. This isn't to take away from Jason's ability - all these individuals have their own distinct styles, but they share certain qualities that I think Jason has now become the torchbearer for (possibly because he's one of the few remaining examples nowadays - I feel like there were more in the 2005-2015 period).

And yes to liking skaters who aren't your 'type'! My favourites are balletic refined skaters, but the less-obvious candidates can grow on me eventually, especially if they display some striking qualities (pluck, comeback story, charisma, cute earnestness, quirkiness, you name it...) e.g. Kondratiuk, Tomono, Messing...

 

[yume]

Basically the issue is this...

About three years ago - yes THREE Vincent said something very stupid on Twitter (as we have all done in out lives) and for this, he had been made into a pariah by the Twitterati.

They refuse to let it go and act as if they've never said something horrible in their lives. They call him horrible names, refuse to show his programs if they're streaming an event he's at, mock him, wish for him to fail and generally act like he personally came to their house, slapped them in the face and killed their dog.

It upsets me a LOT. Vincent is a young man who made a mistake, but they will never forgive him. Sometimes I want to go through their Twitter accounts find the one time (or more!) they said stupid/offensive crap and drag them over the coals for it.

And the guy was 17 at the time. Like, everytime teens are forgiven because they are teens but somehow for him forgiveness takes too much strength.
That's why i ran away from twitter for some time. That and Zagitova's intense bashing.

 

[Bookseller]

Catching up on this thread...I was watching Vincent's skate today - what a WONDERFUL SKATE! As I watched (a couple of times) I was trying to figure out what it is that I see differently in his skating from Jason's. Now - I'm unabashedly a Jason fan, but I love Nathan and others. I'm also a choreographer and dance teacher so I was trying to look critically. Vincent skated today with passion and emotion, certainly. He's getting better and better at that! What I see is (and I'm trying to figure out how to articulate this) his arms and legs seem to be moving from where they are attached at his body. With Jason (and Patrick Chan and sometimes Shoma) Everything originates in the core. His port de bras comes from the center of his back. His legs move from the center. There is a whole body-ness about his movement that I don't see from Vincent. Kolyada has that wholly connected feeling when he moves, sometimes, too. With Vincent - and some others - I see the trunk being stable and the limbs moving around it. There are carriage and posture differences as well. I think Vincent could also be better served by pants that are a little looser around the knees. That - for me - would disguise what looks to me like a knee that doesn't quite lengthen all the way at the back even though I see him stretching the leg.

That's a lot of stream of consciousness - I'm sorry! I'm just kind of trying to quantify a little what is very subjective.

That said - YAY Vincent! What a wonderful skate! (And yes - the German announcer was awesome.)

That is a very good analysis. I call it arm flailing, but it is the disconnect between what the body is or is not doing and what the arms are doing. The integration of movement is lacking. Thank you for articulating that.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Just catching up with the final group of the Men, and had to comment about Mark Kondratiuk.

Thank you, Mark, for making one of my figure skating dreams come true.

I LOVE the "Jesus Christ Superstar" music. I went to see a local production of it when I was about 14, and I loved it so much! My Mum had a copy of the 1970 cast recording of the Soundtrack on LP, and she got my Uncle to transfer it to CD for me.

So, when I was at school, I would have my portable CD player in my blazer pocket with the Soundtrack CD in it, and would play the first 2 tracks, "Overture" and "Heaven On Their Minds", every chance I got! Before school started; in between periods; during wee break and big break. It really got me fired up!

So, you can imagine my reaction when the "Overture" music started for Mark's FS!

Unfortunately, the music in this programme was very choppy, switching songs too often and having too many rough edits. And the sad thing is that it didn't need to be like this. The whole point of an overture is to give you a taste of all the songs in the production. And Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice did this brilliantly themselves when they composed the overture for "Jesus Christ Superstar". So, why not just trust their judgement and go with that?

I just wish Mark and his team had stuck with the "Overture" for the whole programme. Yes, at 3m 58s long it is 32 seconds shorter than the required length. But, they could have easily put some of "Heaven On Their Minds" on at the end to make up the difference.

Nevertheless, I loved the programme.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[ramurphy2005]

Just catching up with the final group of the Men, and had to comment about Mark Kondratiuk.

Thank you, Mark, for making one of my figure skating dreams come true.

I LOVE the "Jesus Christ Superstar" music. I went to see a local production of it when I was about 14, and I loved it so much! My Mum had a copy of the 1970 cast recording of the Soundtrack on LP, and she got my Uncle to transfer it to CD for me.

So, when I was at school, I would have my portable CD player in my blazer pocket with the Soundtrack CD in it, and would play the first 2 tracks, "Overture" and "Heaven On Their Minds", every chance I got! Before school started; in between periods; during wee break and big break. It really got me fired up!

So, you can imagine my reaction when the "Overture" music started for Mark's FS!

Unfortunately, the music in this programme was very choppy, switching songs too often and having too many rough edits. And the sad thing is that it didn't need to be like this. The whole point of an overture is to give you a taste of all the songs in the production. And Andrew Lloyd Webber and Tim Rice did this brilliantly themselves when they composed the overture for "Jesus Christ Superstar". So, why not just trust their judgement and go with that?

I just wish Mark and his team had stuck with the "Overture" for the whole programme. Yes, at 3m 58s long it is 32 seconds shorter than the required length. But, they could have easily put some of "Heaven On Their Minds" on at the end to make up the difference.

Nevertheless, I loved the programme.

CaroLiza_fan

I agree that the music edits were a choppy mess, especially the way it ended.

Men's programs were dropped to 4 minutes in 2019, so he would only have to find 2 seconds of music.

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

I agree that the music edits were choppy mess, especially the way it ended.

Men's programs were dropped to 4 minutes in 2019, so he would only have to find 2 seconds of music.

Thanks for the correction. I can never remember what the lengths are, so I looked up Google. And the results at the top of the page were saying 4m 30s.

So, there's a lot of of out-of-date info out there.



CaroLiza_fan

 

[ramurphy2005]

Thanks for the correction. I can never remember what the lengths are, so I looked up Google. And the results at the top of the page were saying 4m 30s.

So, there's a lot of of out-of-date info out there.



CaroLiza_fan

There is a lot of out of date info. I did my own Google search out of curiosity, and one of the sites that pops up still lists the spiral sequence as a requirement for the Women's short program.