2021 Rostelecom Cup: Men's Free Skate | Page 22 | Golden Skate

2021 Rostelecom Cup: Men's Free Skate

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Jason wasn't at this event. It was talk about Jason and Kolyada's skating.

But Jason has nothing to do with whether Misha K. is scored fairly at this event. He still wasn’t at this event. Why bring his name up at random?:) I don’t bring up Misha K’s name at random when talking about Jason’s scores.

For me, if posters want to compare Jason and Misha, they can do in two weeks. :clap:

otherwise, Jason is so important, he’s talked about at events where he didn’t even skate:biggrin:
 

Lutzedge

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Country
United-States
But Jason has nothing to do with whether Misha K. is scored fairly at this event. He still wasn’t at this event. Why bring his name up at random?:) I don’t bring up Misha K’s name at random when talking about Jason’s scores.

For me, if posters want to compare Jason and Misha, they can do in two weeks. :clap:

otherwise, Jason is so important, he’s talked about at events where he didn’t even skate:biggrin:
I wasn't doing the comparisons. I mentioned in this thread not long ago that there is no need for a fan war between both Jason and Mikhail. And you are right, Jason is not here. So no comparison needs to be made.
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
I wasn't doing the comparisons. I mentioned in this thread not long ago that there is no need for a fan war between both Jason and Mikhail. And you are right, Jason is not here. So no comparison needs to be made.
I agree and I apologize, I did not mean to look like I was arguing with you, as you were just explaining the OP.

I am looking forward to all the skaters at the GPF. Congrats to Misha K and Jason who qualified after this competition :clap:
 

Lutzedge

Final Flight
Joined
Sep 6, 2021
Country
United-States
I agree and I apologize, I did not mean to look like I was arguing with you, as you were just explaining the OP.

I am looking forward to all the skaters at the GPF. Congrats to Misha K and Jason who qualified after this competition :clap:
No need to apologize. It was more of me just mentioning in general that I didn't do the comparisons. I am also looking forward to seeing them. They are both excellent skaters. And as you mentioned, comparisons can be made at the final.
 

kan01

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 15, 2019
Country
Romania
Yeah, I don’t really care for the fan war between Jason and Kolyada’s fans.
Is there such a war? I hope not. The battles are with people who would rather have the TES as final scores it seems. And they also have problems with GOE. Of course, it's easier to NOT be upset when your fave is the one who did not get a call that seems like should've been given judging by looking at the screen and whatever angles and replays we get. I'm guilty of that too perhaps. Still, even without the PCSs and GOEs, it would still be about some skaters *cough* Brown *cough* being "overscored" and oh, the Injustice, because when you're upset about your fave not getting the scores you wanted, it's easy to attack other skaters' scores and abilities.

Thing is, a lot of skaters are probably under and/or overscored and both Jason and Mikhail are great figure skaters, even with the alleged over or under scoring.
 
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lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
For me, it’s TES and PCS combo that should be applied evenly, instead of swinging one way or another. Hence, cleaner routines (no falls, no pops, content as announced) and technically better performance (including jumps and spins and transitions/upper body work) should win out over programs that lean one way or another. As such, for me, the spots shouldn’t have gone to either Brown or Kolyada, but rather decided in an assessment 4 skates put out by Grassl, Sato, Ignatov and Tomono.
 

Makkachin

On the Ice
Joined
Dec 11, 2017
Country
United-States
I guess? But so often people make it personal...and attack the skaters personality. I know a lot of people don't, but those who do can be awful.

Or perhaps I'm too sensitive? I'd hate to go on the ice, try my absolute best - yes, even with crummy technique - win a medal and be accused of everything from insufferable conceit to actual full-on cheating (I refuse to believe Moris is deliberately doing salchows for all his quads, yes he can't do the quad toe correctly, but there's a BIG difference between that and actually suggesting that he's knowingly and maliciously doing it - such suggestions lead to Adelina situations, where the skater themself is the hated one, the one who gets the death threats and name calling).

And while I like Jason a lot, I'm uncomfortable with this idea the there's only ONE type of artistry. I know he works very hard and it's shows, but other skaters work hard too. Like do people honestly think the quad jumpers just rock up to practice do a couple of jumps and leave?

Should Moris have won? I guess not, but is he devoid of talent or ability? Also no. I enjoyed him.

It's exhausting to always have to wonder when you like a skater "Oh if I post something nice about them are people going to laugh and judge and think I'm a crappy person too"?

This is the truth right here. I feel the need to reiterate the part about refusing to believe Morisi is deliberately trying to pass off a salchow as a toe loop. I could go on a long time about this and I'm not sure this thread is the place to do it, but now you've got me started. 😂

The idea that any skater is deliberately trying to make jump elements easier for themselves, by either using weird technique on their toe jumps or by underrotating jumps needs to go away...

With a couple caveats here, one that I don't always watch skating every season, and there are many fans here who understand scoring way, way, way better than I do, even having been a skater, it is my speculation that this belief is a misguided conclusion drawn by people who haven't tried to do skating jumps. But I can say with almost 100% certainty that no one who has poor technique is actually purposely trying to do it that way. Are there some people who know their technique isn't good and aren't trying particularly hard to fix it? Maybe, but probably the minority. Most skaters are legit working on improving it, but certain movements are harder for certain people, that's really all this is.

And many things like pre-rotation and the toe jump takeoff technique, were not even really on the radar until sometime within the last decade. For the younger skaters idk but anyone who was learning singles and doubles before 2010-2012 somewhere in there, likely was not even looking at their jumps in slow mo during practice at that time just because of technology limitations. Morisi at 26 is in this category for me. After you've been doing basic jumps with a certain technique for a long time it becomes very, very hard to unlearn things. Doesn't mean he's not trying, or can't improve still.

Doesn't mean this shouldn't still be addressed somewhere in the GOE and that better technique shouldn't be rewarded more. But that's another tangent.

I'll stop there, wow that got me fired up I'm sorry 😂
 

cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Country
Poland
He is not skating for Russia, Russia just lost a gold medal (is what I meant). For me, he's Georgian, I have no clue what ethnicity these people are for the most part.
I meant that he originally skated for Russia. Even in seniors. He changed countries because Russia had so many skaters he wouldn't be probably going to Championships like, almost never, and now he goes all the time. He was born in Russia, he lives and trains there. Only a flag next to his name changed, nothing else. I mean that judges probalby treats him like they would any other Russian skater due to these facts.
 

JustSomeGuy

Rinkside
Joined
May 20, 2021
Just putting this out there, but Morisi didn't get more that +3 GOE from a single judge for that 4T-3T, which is actually allowed in the CoP - failing to tick one of the bolded bullets (which includes good take-off and landing) institutes a GOE cap of +3, and although there isn't clear guidance on whether the cap should be implemented before or after deductions, I choose after. I'm aware that judges pick and choose whether to apply the cap before or after depending on whether the skater is in their good graces or not, so there should be a clear statement here, but on this I choose to er in favour of the skater. His wonky take-off only actually hits one negative bullet, so as long as he hits at least 4 positives he can get a +3 GOE. I'll have to go a rewatch the jump to identify which bullets he did or didn't hit, and I have a feeling some of them will be borderline, but I suspect +3 won't actually be unjustifyable within the code of points.
 

Jaana

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Country
Finland
As Kolyada ended his programme I was very surprised to see a fan waving a flag with his photo where he was actually smiling very nicely... A totally different look than his normal strained look I have been used to at competitions.
 
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sworddance21

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
I am late to the party today - I just watched Kolyada's free. I think he is a beautiful skater and I'm sure I'm going to cause a lot of drama here, but IMHO he wasn't that unfairly scored today. I mean, when I turned it on to watch it I expected an enormous disaster based on what I had been reading. I don't love this program on him - I think he does other things better - but besides the opening fall and turnout I thought he skated very well. His skating skills and spinning ability are undeniable.

I think this program does him a disservice. He's beautiful but, I don't understand what he's trying to portray with this program. I don't find him to be a storyteller, and I feel like this music demands it. Watching it today I thought he could take the same lovely choreography and put it to different music and it would work just as well.

He'd be more competitive this season with White Crow.
 

LadyB

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 7, 2016
Really happy for Moris, he seems to be in a good place at the moment. While the first group was still competing, I saw him in the background laughing and joking with Sergei and Danya.

What happened to Kazuki, though? He’s got the full package - the technical skills and the acting. I like him, even though he threw Bla Bla Land at me!

Needless to say I’m very pleased for Misha, but he needs to get steady if he wants to go to the Olys. However, the Fed will do anything to get him there, and that’s fine by me.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
What happened to Kazuki, though? He’s got the full package
You're asking what happened to Kazuki? But you're "pleased for Misha." Huh? At least Kazuki performed his sp and skated clean, and was in first place going into the fp, without humongous gifts from the judges. The judges clearly held up Kolyada in the sp, and also gave him too much in the fp overall. Anyone else, skating with that many errors in both programs, would not be getting so much GOE. Neither program was pleasing to watch with all of Kolyada's errors, when we know he doesn't have to make them. Why he makes these errors is another story. Of course, Kolyada is an exceptional skater. But I don't accept the judges deciding that Kolyada deserves to consistently be held up because he has great talent, when he can't ever seem to skate a clean program. Sure, when he does land his jumps perfectly, he looks gorgeous. But that's all the more reason he should be able to land all of his jumps with quality. I find what happened at this event unacceptable. But then, no one else stepped up to take full advantage of Kolyada's very poor showing.

To answer your question about what happened to Kazuki: The pressure of knowing it was possible to win big at a GP event is what got to him! And it's a shame. I thought Kazuki at least would pull most of his program together after that first error on one of his quads happened. I'm not sure why skaters can't try to think about just enjoying their program and staying within themselves when they are under great pressure. Kazuki has to be feeling somewhat disappointed, at least a small amount. He's lucky to have made the podium. Anyway, all the skaters have to learn what they can from the event and go back to the drawing board.

Still, as a viewer, I mean I'm shaking my head about what did I just watch. All these guys were trying to give it away, while the judges were busy working overtime trying to help most of the Russian skaters (at least Semenenko and Kolyada). And also the judges helped Georgian skater, Morisi K, in part because he's coached by Eteri. Morisi has never won a GP before. He's gotten the silver medal twice before at Rostelecom, and he has a bronze at Euros, plus he's medaled and won a few Challenger Series and Senior B events. This was so messy though. Morisi is competitive and pleasant to watch sometimes, but he's not a powerhouse skater with serious chops, or exceptional aesthetic skills. It helps Morisi that he can rotate multiple quads, sometimes better than other times. Notice that he's only medaled previously on the GP in Russia. Meanwhile, young Semenko was receiving lots GOE candy for a wild skate, with messy forward landings, fall-outs and hands-down. The program does NOT suit him at all. I would be happy if I never saw him skate it again.

Matteo R, Brezina, and Brendan Kerry have to be kicking themselves. If only they'd brought their A games in both programs. Yep, but that's hard to do in Russia, when you know good and well, the judges will be pulling for their homeboys and girls. On a personal level, I suppose Camden P and Roman S feel fairly good. Roman because he landed in fourth, even with mistakes in both programs. But relatively mild mistakes considering the messy programs from other guys. Roman could have easily made the podium too, had he been completely clean. Roman and Camden need more quads in their arsenal though, along with consistency, to pose serious threats to skaters with multiple quad rep. But at this competition, apparently, Anything Goes, and it certainly went that way! Good Grief. SMH :palmf:
 

BlissfulSynergy

Medalist
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
It is events like this where the results cause me to appreciate even more how amazing Nathan Chen is. What the men are asked to do is next to impossible really. The fact that Nathan can and has consistently achieved the impossible at so many events over a long period of time is incredible. In order to do what he has done, Nathan has to draw on so many reserves. He has to be so disciplined and technically efficient. Obviously, Nathan has the personality, technical and aesthetic talent, and the mental discipline, training strategy, and coach to be able to do what he's been doing.
 

Joe Mendoza

Virtuously Shady Diva
Final Flight
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
I think Mikhail Kolyada is amazing, but is it just me, or did he look like he was not having a great time in Rostelecom? I was not feeling the chill and lighthearted vibe compared to what I used to see from him the past season. If it were me, I preferred the Nureyev free skate more for Kolyada.
 

lariko

Medalist
Joined
Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
If it were me, I preferred the Nureyev free skate more for Kolyada.
I am yet to encounter a person who doesn’t want him skate to White Crow instead of SL. But their team said they don’t want to repeat the programs at the start of the season.
 

dearskate

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Country
Scotland
I think Mikhail Kolyada is amazing, but is it just me, or did he look like he was not having a great time in Rostelecom? I was not feeling the chill and lighthearted vibe compared to what I used to see from him the past season. If it were me, I preferred the Nureyev free skate more for Kolyada.
The Nureyev free skate was amazing. He should definitely have kept it. I also thought he looked pretty ill at ease. I really love his skating though.
 

dearskate

Rinkside
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Country
Scotland
Why, oh why aren’t the range of PC marks used properly? Tomono should get really high marks for his performance and choreography. Instead they just make all the second marks the same. When will the judges learn how to judge and give the proper recognition for people who skate to and interpret the music?
 
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