2021 Skate Canada: Men's Short Program | Page 37 | Golden Skate

2021 Skate Canada: Men's Short Program

Totentanz

Ursula Gumennik
Medalist
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
M. Ignatov, your 4Lo is great, but that illusion spin was atrocious (sorry Totentanz)
I never approve his shirts and spins actually. And now, he is almost my ex after failing me a lot of times in the last 1.5 years (I can only remember being happy that he was 2nd in the RN). Can you guess the heartbreaks of countless no-stamina-left free skates after clean SPs? I am tired of this relationship and I need some excitement.

And no this is not me having a nervous breakdown because of noticing he has a happy relationship with his real life girlfriend.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
When you come back can you drop Gracie's score here? I don't know which competition she is in and if the USA is airing it,
60.77 and she’s in third. She was beautifully clean until she sat down at the end of her step sequence. Real smiles from her and kisses blown to her subjects in the Kiss and Cry. It’s the qualifying series for Nationals. If you have Peacock you can watch the replay.
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
This is what I think. It is fruitless to argue about Jason Brown. Some people like his beautiful skating. Others think that his lack of a quad should eleminate him from medal contention. No matter how many times or in how many weays the two sides state their position, there is is.
Well stated. The "Jason and the Quad" storyline is played out.

At the end of the day, we'll know the answer. It's either "Told you so! Beautiful skating can still win without the most difficult jump content" or it will be "Don't act surprised. You knew his base value was too low." The outcome will be whatever it is, and nothing anyone says on the board is going to change that.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States

Skater Boy

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
60.77 and she’s in third. She was beautifully clean until she sat down at the end of her step sequence. Real smiles from her and kisses blown to her subjects in the Kiss and Cry. It’s the qualifying series for Nationals. If you have Peacock you can watch the replay.
I am so so confused. WHy is this here??? What does Gracie have to do with Skate Canada or men's skating. She isn't the most relevant skater now a days sadly But I have to say kudos to Nathan he did it; he owned it. Jason was wonderful but without a quad a nd a slight hesitation on the combo I would have given second to the Canadian skater - Messing. I like his style and how he sells it. He may not be classical but he has great skating skills. I have seen better spins form him though and he missed some levels. Still Jason as usual beautiful skating and Nathan is back on top as expected. The Russian men are interesting. Shocked about Moris. I was impressed with Conrad and Roman has beautiful skating like Brown or the former Canadian champ Patrick Chan but he has got to land those jumps consistently and cleanly and fully rotated.
 

Zora

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Artistically I thought this was a very dull competition. I want to congratulate Tanaka and Samarin for being the only ones who chose music with (almost) no vocals, but they weren't exactly great either. 😅
Chen and Brown did well, good for them.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
I am so so confused. WHy is this here??? What does Gracie have to do with Skate Canada or men's skating. She isn't the most relevant skater now a days sadly But I have to say kudos to Nathan he did it; he owned it. Jason was wonderful but without a quad a nd a slight hesitation on the combo I would have given second to the Canadian skater - Messing. I like his style and how he sells it. He may not be classical but he has great skating skills. I have seen better spins form him though and he missed some levels. Still Jason as usual beautiful skating and Nathan is back on top as expected. The Russian men are interesting. Shocked about Moris. I was impressed with Conrad and Roman has beautiful skating like Brown or the former Canadian champ Patrick Chan but he has got to land those jumps consistently and cleanly and fully rotated.
It’s here because I said I couldn’t watch the men because I was watching ladies in Leesburg and someone specifically asked me to drop the score here when I came back so I did.

The last 3 men had beautiful skates and I hope they end up on the podium in any order.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
Well stated. The "Jason and the Quad" storyline is played out.

At the end of the day, we'll know the answer. It's either "Told you so! Beautiful skating can still win without the most difficult jump content" or it will be "Don't act surprised. You knew his base value was too low." The outcome will be whatever it is, and nothing anyone says on the board is going to change that.
The problem as I see it is that just one quad won’t cut it any more. If he starts landing 3-4 consistently it is a different story.
 

yume

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
This is what I think. It is fruitless to argue about Jason Brown. Some people like his beautiful skating. Others think that his lack of a quad should eleminate him from medal contention. No matter how many times or in how many weays the two sides state their position, there is is.
And there is me in the middle. His skating quality should allow him to compete with quadsters, as being in the same point. Not beating "average skaters" with two quads in SP by 5-10 points. I remember he had beaten in SP a pretty clean Kazuki Tomono with two quads by 6 points. Even with all level 4s Kazuki still would have lost by 4 points.
I don't know if people realize that even with +4 spins, Makar still would have ended behind a Jason Brown who even afforded a rotation call.
Needing two quads and top notch spins to finish not too far from a quadless skater is crazy.

I thought that this system was supposed to balance quality vs difficulty, but it seems unbalanced in favor of quality. At least when it comes to Brown. Other skaters could be rewarded like that. If there was fairness in this sport, Rizzo would have gotten at least the same score than him in SP at worlds 2019. Han Yan would have always scored in 90 zone with his quadless SPs. Getting 9 for SS and +4/5 on every jumping pass.
 

Seren

Wakabond Forever
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 21, 2014
Good redemption skate for Nathan. And Jason was sublime. Quad or no quad (and I do believe he has it in him), he is magical.

I do enjoy how Jason’s detractors seem to spend a lot of time thinking about him.

Good luck to all the men in the free!
 

georgia

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 18, 2003
Chen got higher SS and PE scores than Jason.

I'm sorry WHAT THE FRACK

Yes, yes, I know, I know, Chen is the chosen one, has all the quads, etc etc, but come on. Come on. Nobody with eyes and a single functioning brain cell could look at those programs and decide that Chen was the better skater and that he had the better performance!
He is the chosen because he is three times world champion, Grand Prix finals champion and a great skater! He is the best!
 

el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
And there is me in the middle. His skating quality should allow him to compete with quadsters, as being in the same point. Not beating "average skaters" with two quads in SP by 5-10 points. I remember he had beaten in SP a pretty clean Kazuki Tomono with two quads by 6 points. Even with all level 4s Kazuki still would have lost by 4 points.
I don't know if people realize that even with +4 spins, Makar still would have ended behind a Jason Brown who even afforded a rotation call.
Needing two quads and top notch spins to finish not too far from a quadless skater is crazy.

I thought that this system was supposed to balance quality vs difficulty, but it seems unbalanced in favor of quality. At least when it comes to Brown. Other skaters could be rewarded like that. If there was fairness in this sport, Rizzo would have gotten at least the same score than him in SP at worlds 2019. Han Yan would have always scored in 90 zone with his quadless SPs. Getting 9 for SS and +4/5 on every jumping pass.


No it's not, it's the system, which Jason as an athlete is maximizing every single point he can get. Good for him.

Jason is not just a "quadless skater". What he does outside of jumps is crazy difficult and crazy athletic. Other skaters simply do not have his skill in those areas. Hanee, as much as I love his 3A, no. Matteo Rizzo? I like Matteo too, but no.

It's not reputation, and it's not big fed, it's that Jason is in fact *that* good. ETA: Although I would concede an argument that Matteo and Han should be in the 90s, if Jason were over 100.
 

rain

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
And there is me in the middle. His skating quality should allow him to compete with quadsters, as being in the same point. Not beating "average skaters" with two quads in SP by 5-10 points. I remember he had beaten in SP a pretty clean Kazuki Tomono with two quads by 6 points. Even with all level 4s Kazuki still would have lost by 4 points.
I don't know if people realize that even with +4 spins, Makar still would have ended behind a Jason Brown who even afforded a rotation call.
Needing two quads and top notch spins to finish not too far from a quadless skater is crazy.

I thought that this system was supposed to balance quality vs difficulty, but it seems unbalanced in favor of quality. At least when it comes to Brown. Other skaters could be rewarded like that. If there was fairness in this sport, Rizzo would have gotten at least the same score than him in SP at worlds 2019. Han Yan would have always scored in 90 zone with his quadless SPs. Getting 9 for SS and +4/5 on every jumping pass.
This is just demonstrably totally untrue. The current system is hugely tilted towards, not even just technical content, but jumps specifically. Far too tilted in my opinion. I find it infuriating that as soon as a skater is correctly rewarded for actual good skating instead of just piled high with points for trying quads (even botching them doesn't hurt much) that they are attacked and told they don't deserve to score well for all the things that they do better than anyone else. Frankly, I wish there was more judging like this, that actually rewarded skating and not just jumping. The fact that there's not has caused me to lose a huge amount of interest in the men's and women's disciplines over the last few years, because it's being treated as if nothing but increasing revolutions in the air matters. I'm to the point where I would welcome splitting the competition in two, where there is a jumping contest and a skating contest, where jumps would be limited. Skaters could enter just one or both. I'd absolutely welcome the opportunity to watch a field of, say, Jason, Han Yan, Kevin Aymoz and Roman Sadovsky (and of course Patrick Chan in his day) duking it out for the artistic skating title, where we could properly appreciate speed and footwork and spins and elegance and musical expression and choreography.
 

moonvine

All Hail Queen Gracie
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Country
United-States
This is just demonstrably totally untrue. The current system is hugely tilted towards, not even just technical content, but jumps specifically. Far too tilted in my opinion. I find it infuriating that as soon as a skater is correctly rewarded for actual good skating instead of just piled high with points for trying quads (even botching them doesn't hurt much) that they are attacked and told they don't deserve to score well for all the things that they do better than anyone else. Frankly, I wish there was more judging like this, that actually rewarded skating and not just jumping. The fact that there's not has caused me to lose a huge amount of interest in the men's and women's disciplines over the last few years, because it's being treated as if nothing but increasing revolutions in the air matters. I'm to the point where I would welcome splitting the competition in two, where there is a jumping contest and a skating contest, where jumps would be limited. Skaters could enter just one or both. I'd absolutely welcome the opportunity to watch a field of, say, Jason, Han Yan, Kevin Aymoz and Roman Sadovsky (and of course Patrick Chan in his day) duking it out for the artistic skating title, where we could properly appreciate speed and footwork and spins and elegance and musical expression and choreography.
I co-sign all this 100% and often complain about the same things, though much less eloquently. And it’s MUCH worse in ladies than it is in men. A lady can’t come out, no matter how beautifully she skates, and beat another lady with a quad. It’s really got to be fixed.
 

SaDa

On the Ice
Joined
Jul 12, 2021
...and this is why I personally don't bother with the scores of skaters or enjoy conversations like this. Unless there's factual evidence of cheating, I think scoring is way too subjective for anyone, let alone fans, to be messing with. We can each complain about how another skater is being scored isn't fair to our favorite, or whatever, and we would all be right and wrong at the same time. There are just way too many variables. Just my opinion. Carry on.
 
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el henry

Fangirl of men’s spirals and split jumps
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Country
United-States
Good redemption skate for Nathan. And Jason was sublime. Quad or no quad (and I do believe he has it in him), he is magical.

I do enjoy how Jason’s detractors seem to spend a lot of time thinking about him.

Good luck to all the men in the free!

The term "rent free" comes to mind, at least from what I have seen on social media.

I can understand thinking that a skater was underscored, I can understand thinking that a skater's elements were not judged accurately, I can understand wanting your fav skater to do well and to proclaim how wonderful they are (I certainly do). But to spend energy on one rival skater seems counter-productive.

And I also am very glad that Nathan had his redemption skate(y)
 
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