2021 Worlds: Men's' Short Program

[CrazyKittenLady]

There is only one extra spot? I’m still confused by the whole Nebelhorn thing. How many skaters can go to Nebelhorn from each country?

As far as I understood from the relevant ISU communication, 6 spots are up for grabs in men's (though only one per country).

 

[chasingneverland]

Yesterday in the ladies event someone mentioned a new rule about a cap in PCs when someone does a serious error, and linked this:

Program Components – Single Skating, Pair Skating, Ice Dance

I read it yesterday and I'm reading it again now but still don't really understand. For something outstanding 9.75 should be the max for SS, TR and CO, and 9.50 for PE and IN. Looking at the protocol, this is not upheld for individual judges scores? (Looking at Nathan's score only since he is the only one getting such high points but had an error). And that is for outstanding, which I would not call Nathan's skate, the max should be even lower for the next category Excellent.

What I am missing? I didn't know of this rule before yesterday so I must be misunderstanding something?

That is the capped score. 10 is the max score before - so outstanding with no serious errors. 9.75 and 9.5 are capped scores - so outstanding but you made a serious error.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Yeah, but if the standings remained as is, they would be one point of that 3rd man they crave so badly, hence, devastating. Which is how I read the OP

That's true of course, it would be a classic case of so close, but no cigar...

 

[chasingneverland]

Morris missed all of his 3 jump passes. Zhou at least managed 4-3 combo

Vincent missed every one of his jumping passes too. He fell on a downgraded 4Lz, under-rotated his 4S and got a q on his 3T in the combo, and got a q on his 3A which he fell on.

Morisi wasn't clean on any of his landings but he actually over-rotated his jumps. And by that token he also managed a 4-3 combo. He had a 4S+3T, 3A, and 4T. All super messy landings but he didn't under-rotate any of them so his BV held. He also didn't fall on anything, whereas Vincent fell twice.

 

[lariko]

Vincent missed every one of his jumping passes too. He fell on a downgraded 4Lz, under-rotated his 4S and got a q on his 3T in the combo, and got a q on his 3A.

Morisi wasn't clean on any of his landings but he actually over-rotated his jumps. And by that token he also managed a 4-3 combo. He had a 4S+3T, 3A, and 4T. All super messy landings but he didn't under-rotate any of them so his BV held.

I guess? But to me Kvitashvili looked like he might have let Zhou in. Not that it would have made a difference for Zhou. The result is devastating for him regardless.

 

[Xorasy]

That is the capped score. 10 is the max score before - so outstanding with no serious errors. 9.75 and 9.5 are capped scores - so outstanding but you made a serious error.

So when judge 3 gave Nathan 9.75 in IN (cap should be 9.50), how does that work?

 

[discode]

Nathan having to fight isn't the worst thing in the world. He hasn't fallen since 2018 I believe, so there's probably a lot of pressure to always be perfect and keep up his winning streak. And him pulling off the 3a and 4F3T beautifully shows he didn't really get spooked by his mistake. I don't think 8 points is something he can't make up honestly if he skates like I know he can. Really sad about Vincent here.

 

[xabia]

I still shake my head when I see Jason Brown's artistry ranked similarly to Chen or even Hanyu. Chen and Hanyu are masters at their jumps, no denying! (Except for Nathan today!) But they are both fabulous jumpers. Chen and Hanyu have good, very good artistry. But Jason Brown is in a class by himself. He is not going to win because he lacks the quads but his artistry should be rewarded. Putting Brown's artistry scores just 3 points higher than Kagiyama, is just absurd.

I couldn't agree more. Jason is impeccable - his artistry is second to none. Deniss's performance today was also a revelation - every beat and nuance of the music interpreted with just the right amount of hauteur (it's a tango after all)! And Kevin Aymoz's performance was scintillating. But do they get their just rewards compared to Nathan? No way José!

 

[chasingneverland]

I guess? But to me Kvitashvili looked like he might have let Zhou in. Not that it would have made a difference for Zhou. The result is devastating for him regardless.

Yeah. It wasn't a good skate by any means. By either. But Morisi's BV helped him.

It would have made a difference for Zhou. Because now if (when) Nathan and Jason earn the US 3 skates (places 13 or less added together), someone (not Nathan or Jason) actually has to go to Nebelhorn to guarantee the third spot. Whereas if Vincent had slid into the FS, even if he finished last there, that third spot would be guaranteed and doesn't need to be earned at Nebelhorn. Basically because Vincent didn't make the FS, the third spot is no longer guaranteed.

It's actually super not good.

 

[lariko]

Yeah. It wasn't a good skate by any means. By either. But Morisi's BV helped him.

It would have made a difference for Zhou. Because now if (when) Nathan and Jason earn the US 3 skates (places 13 or less added together), someone (not Nathan or Jason) actually has to go to Nebelhorn to guarantee the third spot. Whereas if Vincent had slid into the FS, even if he finished last there, that third spot would be guaranteed and doesn't need to be earned at Nebelhorn. Basically because Vincent didn't make the FS, the third spot is no longer guaranteed.

It's actually super not good.

They will get it, and it may open the door a crack for Hiwatashi or Naumov from US male skaters, not a bad thing in my books. But,yeah, Morisi kindda needs it less, I suppose.

personally, I would have preferred Zhou to get in vs Kvitashvili

 

[chasingneverland]

They will get it, and it may open the door a crack for Hiwatashi or Naumov from US male skaters, not a bad thing in my books. But,yeah, Morisi kindda needs it less, I suppose.

personally, I would have preferred Zhou to get in vs Kvitashvili

True. But that's a lot of pressure on one skater to guarantee that final spot. There will be others going too. Someone from Canada will go (probably Roman but maybe Nam). If Russia can get into three spots, Dimitri goes, likely. Etc.

 

[skylark]

Stéphane Lambiel needs to learn as a couch that he cannot turn all of his students into little Lambiels. He does it with Dennis, he tries it with Rika, Paganini...

You may have hit on something that bothered me about Rika yesterday. (Was it only yesterday? Wheeee ....) And it may be exactly why it bothers me, that the coaches I really admire bring out what's best in each individual skater or team.... by first observing what's already good or has great potential.

 

[lariko]

True. But that's a lot of pressure on one skater to guarantee that final spot. There will be others going too. Someone from Canada will go (probably Roman but maybe Nam). If Russia can get into three spots, Dimitri goes, likely. Etc.

Well, that’s what makes it interesting.

 

[skylark]

I guess? But to me Kvitashvili looked like he might have let Zhou in. Not that it would have made a difference for Zhou. The result is devastating for him regardless.

It is devastating, but I think it would have made a difference. I was already looking forward to Vincent's chance to get a little bit of redemption for himself in the FS. Hoping that he'd get the chance.

 

[lariko]

It is devastating, but I think it would have made a difference. I was already looking forward to Vincent's chance to get a little bit of redemption for himself in the FS. Hoping that he'd get the chance.

So did I, but the judges gave the chance to Selevko and Kvitashvili instead, who both represent one skater, small fed country... also, hey, like some people want to say it’s just math.

but I was looking at the result page, hoping till the last.

 

[Jaana]

Feeling very surprised that Zhou did not make the freeskate and not feeling surprised at all that our Virtanen did not make it (as he never has at WC). Good for him though that he tried to jump the triple axel! I notice from the scores that not even a successful triple axel would have helped, his technical content is just way too modest.

Hanyu was just fantastic, WOW!!!

 

[Gia_Sesshoumaru]

That is crazy. Only one country can send 3 skaters?

I'm sorry, I'm a little confused by your question. You asked how many skaters can go from each country, and the answer is one, I believe. Theoretically, more than just one country can earn three spots. Both US and Russia can do it here - US will for sure, and Russia is on the bubble - and if they both do, they would have to send one skater to Neblehorn to confirm that third spot. Then, they would both earn 3 spots. This goes for France, Canada, and South Korea, as well, for confirming their second spots.

https://www.isu.org/docman-documents-links-2/2022-beijing/qualification-systems-3/22994-figure-skating-v1-0/file

 

[Kitt]

My favorite skate today was Kevin Aymoz. Really feel bad for Vincent! And hope that Nathan can fight back for the win!

 

[skylark]

So did I, but the judges gave the chance to Selevko and Kvitashvili instead, who both represent one skater, small fed country... also, hey, like some people want to say it’s just math.

but I was looking at the result page, hoping till the last.

You and me both. Oh well, skaters have to be resilient. They Get Up. I hope Vincent can use this disappointment as fuel.

 

[Warwick360]

If this has already been discussed then I'm sorry for bringing this up.

The Eurosport commentator said that if there was a major mistake in a program, the PCS would be no more than 8s in a program. Yet Chen's PCS were off the roof even with an error, and somehow only a point below a near perfect Hanyu. Can someone please explain to me if this was a dated rule that the commentator failed to note?