2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating
- Thread starter GS Forum Staff
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2021
Oh yes absolutely. It was a complete mess! I decided to watch it against my better judgement! Non Prix!
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
No, she would not have easily won gold. In her last free skate, she had more serious errors (3F< Fall, 3Lz+1Eu+COMBO+3S*) than Isabeau who finished with a silver here, and with this judging and technical panel, her scores would have looked very different. Clean, yes, she would have won. But I can say that about literally anyone - A clean Kaori would have also won, and so would a clean Young You, or a clean Anastasiia Gubanova. But that's assuming the "other skater" would have skated clean, an assumption that seems unrealistic considering the way this competition went.
And the fact that some of you see all six skaters having issues (even Isabeau, who was otherwise incredibly consistent this season) and your first thought is "Oh, all of these skaters are untalented/bad/undeserving of being at the GPF. XYZ would have done so much better." despite all skaters at the GPF (with exception of Rinka, who is very well known to be incredibly inconsistent, and Mai, who made the fewest mistakes here) not having scored this low in literal years, tells me more about you than about any of the talent or scoring potential of either the Russian or non-Russian skaters.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2022
I don't think they are bad or untalented, but if they are the best in the world than the standard has regressed to a level that should have people alarmed because women's skating won't exist if this is the level we can expect in the future.
After Isabeau's FS I thought she'd finish 5th overall, possibly 4th, but a long way off a medal.
I think history will have an asterisk against these medals anyway.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
This is not the first "disaster" GPF - far from it. In other disciplines, like men's or pairs, it's in fact pretty common. I've not seen anyone saying the level of pairs' skating regressed in 2019 when not a single pair had two clean programs. Or in men's in 2018, when all but two skaters fell in the Free skate and everyone made multiple serious errors across both programs.
If every single skater is struggling in the Free, after what was a good Short program (with exception of Yelim, who looked exhausted throughout the event) and for many a good season (Rinka, Mai, Isabeau, Loena and even Yelim), it's impossible to put it down to the "standard" regressing. Once again, this was the worst score for almost all of these skaters, not just this season, but in literal years - This was not a normal or regular occurrence for them. That's like saying Anna Shcherbakova's Free skate at Rus Nats last season, or the Short at Europeans is representative of her level of skating. We all know it's not.
Who knows what was going on at this GPF, there are many issues that could affect all skaters equally like ice condition or skating late in the evening, but it's not a full picture of the level of a) any of these skaters individually and b) of women's figure skating internationally.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
Nah. Every so often there is an absolute trainwreck of a day's skating and for some reason everyone gets caught in the wreckage. Had any of the Russian girls been there, they could well have had a similar meltdown (they have been known to, after all).
And history doesn't care.
To all those who think Yametova would win this GP event. I’m glad she is finally getting some recognition. She is my favourite skater. So, I’m always going to be biased for her. But, Veronika did skate at an event right after her two Russian Cup events. She skated about ten days ago and scored 205.62 to win the event. Russians tend to over score their athletes. So, I don’t think a panel of international judges would give her a higher score than Mai (208). The Russian ladies are the strongest. But, I analyzed the top 6 from Russian Cup Series:
1) Valieva - Would win any event, even without her 4T
2) Elizaveta - Skating just as good as last year, despite an iffy triple triple. She has her three 3A’s
3) Sofia S. - Was iffy at both of her events. But, solid triple combos in second half.
4) Sofia M - Too solid, with her 3A and lovely skating skills
5) Sofia A - 3A and 4T, and solid set of triples even when she fails her ultra-c elements
6) Alexandra - Without landing the 4Lz, I don’t think she would have made the GP finals this year
Valieva is banned from competing and Sofia A. isn’t age eligible. I actually can only envision Elizaveta, Sofia S. and Sofia M at the GP finals, alongside Mai, Loena and Kaori, this year. Kaori was inconsistent. But, she did score 217, at her first event and over 200, at her second event. Better average than Trusova, despite international scoring being more difficult than RUS domestic scoring. So, only three ladies in the GP final, two less than last year. It would have been a battle between Sofia M and Elizaveta this year. I feel so bad for Sofia M. She killed herself in training to learn the 3A for last years Junior GP finals, only to have it cancelled, along with Junior Worlds. This could have been a fantastic year for her. The judges loved her last year and scored her way higher than Adeliya and Sofia S… I would have loved to see how they would have scored her, relative to Elizaveta.
Also, if the Juniors were allowed to compete, I think Sofia A, Veronika and Alisa would have qualified, with Sofia Titova maybe grabbing the last spot over Jia Shin. Sofia T was amazing in both of her SPs landing a 3A combo, which isn’t that much of an advantage in the Junior Circuit. Only to have to falls at both her 3A and 4S, at both of her free skates, but, with clean triples. I have no idea how they international panel would have judged her. So, I have her at 50/50 with Shin. Hana and Mao would have definitely qualified, scoring 200+ at both of their events. So, four Russian girls, maybe three, to push Mao at this past event.
Also, my last two cents… is that if I was an athlete from Russia, I would think twice about switching Nationalities. If Russia is banned for another year, I would lose interest in pushing hard as there is no incentive to repeat my programs over and over again with nothing on the line. Well, maybe, these Russian events are enough to justify training hard. Also, when Russia is allowed back, they would only be able to send one athlete, so, most (other than the one selected), will miss out of another year of international competition. If they come back by next year Olympics, most will lose the opportunity to build that reputation.
1) Valieva - Would win any event, even without her 4T
2) Elizaveta - Skating just as good as last year, despite an iffy triple triple. She has her three 3A’s
3) Sofia S. - Was iffy at both of her events. But, solid triple combos in second half.
4) Sofia M - Too solid, with her 3A and lovely skating skills
5) Sofia A - 3A and 4T, and solid set of triples even when she fails her ultra-c elements
6) Alexandra - Without landing the 4Lz, I don’t think she would have made the GP finals this year
Valieva is banned from competing and Sofia A. isn’t age eligible. I actually can only envision Elizaveta, Sofia S. and Sofia M at the GP finals, alongside Mai, Loena and Kaori, this year. Kaori was inconsistent. But, she did score 217, at her first event and over 200, at her second event. Better average than Trusova, despite international scoring being more difficult than RUS domestic scoring. So, only three ladies in the GP final, two less than last year. It would have been a battle between Sofia M and Elizaveta this year. I feel so bad for Sofia M. She killed herself in training to learn the 3A for last years Junior GP finals, only to have it cancelled, along with Junior Worlds. This could have been a fantastic year for her. The judges loved her last year and scored her way higher than Adeliya and Sofia S… I would have loved to see how they would have scored her, relative to Elizaveta.
Also, if the Juniors were allowed to compete, I think Sofia A, Veronika and Alisa would have qualified, with Sofia Titova maybe grabbing the last spot over Jia Shin. Sofia T was amazing in both of her SPs landing a 3A combo, which isn’t that much of an advantage in the Junior Circuit. Only to have to falls at both her 3A and 4S, at both of her free skates, but, with clean triples. I have no idea how they international panel would have judged her. So, I have her at 50/50 with Shin. Hana and Mao would have definitely qualified, scoring 200+ at both of their events. So, four Russian girls, maybe three, to push Mao at this past event.
Also, my last two cents… is that if I was an athlete from Russia, I would think twice about switching Nationalities. If Russia is banned for another year, I would lose interest in pushing hard as there is no incentive to repeat my programs over and over again with nothing on the line. Well, maybe, these Russian events are enough to justify training hard. Also, when Russia is allowed back, they would only be able to send one athlete, so, most (other than the one selected), will miss out of another year of international competition. If they come back by next year Olympics, most will lose the opportunity to build that reputation.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2022
No, she is not banned.
If not banned, then three Russian Ladies, would have still qualified. I think Valieva would have knocked out Sofia S. Kaori was overall better than Sofia S. at both events. But, that is debateable.
I get what you are saying, and yes, it is wrong to make conclusions and make a lot of "what if"s. And who knows, even with the Russian women, this competition might have been troublesome. We all know and remember multiple times that Trusova had multiple falls and didn't deliver. It is what it is, and there is no if's and anything we can do about it.
Love your analysis, and yes I agree, those would have been the potential GP finalists. But then again, we would never know, those scores we see domestically may not occur internationally. And they might not have performed as well internationally. I can easily see a scenario where Liza might have had a fall on one of her 3As and missed the final because of that, same with Sofia M. And Sofia S has always been unpredictable.
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2020
So, just so I’m up to date, is this the part of the program where we pretend the rest of the world are a match for the Russian ladies?
The same rest of world that celebrates because they were able to lose by only 15 to one of the Russian bulldogs?
At the last real world championships in 2021, and the last Olympics, a total of 12 non Russian skaters scored over 200, and one of those was Russian born. Over about 30 counties combined, only had 6 more 200 point scorers than one nation. The best non Russian was 25 points behind Anna in both competitions.
Imagine, what the results look like if there weren’t quotas. Most of the rest of the world’s skaters are in the field because of quotas anyway. Anna can probably skate with a crutch and still crush the rest of world. She can probably shoot a car commercial while competing and still win gold.
Must be a good feeling to know you are competing only because better skaters aren’t allowed to.
The most recent champion of Moscow would have been 7th at the Olympics and 4th at the world championships.
But, keep on pretending. Who am I to tell someone not to keep dreaming?
Anyway, let’s keep the split the way it is now. Let the real stars do their thing against other stars, and let the rest of the world do whatever the rest of the world is doing. I have no idea since I haven’t watched a second of the ISU discrimination events. And won’t as long as this system stays in place. I’m going where the Russian ladies are.
The same rest of world that celebrates because they were able to lose by only 15 to one of the Russian bulldogs?
At the last real world championships in 2021, and the last Olympics, a total of 12 non Russian skaters scored over 200, and one of those was Russian born. Over about 30 counties combined, only had 6 more 200 point scorers than one nation. The best non Russian was 25 points behind Anna in both competitions.
Imagine, what the results look like if there weren’t quotas. Most of the rest of the world’s skaters are in the field because of quotas anyway. Anna can probably skate with a crutch and still crush the rest of world. She can probably shoot a car commercial while competing and still win gold.
Must be a good feeling to know you are competing only because better skaters aren’t allowed to.
The most recent champion of Moscow would have been 7th at the Olympics and 4th at the world championships.
But, keep on pretending. Who am I to tell someone not to keep dreaming?
Anyway, let’s keep the split the way it is now. Let the real stars do their thing against other stars, and let the rest of the world do whatever the rest of the world is doing. I have no idea since I haven’t watched a second of the ISU discrimination events. And won’t as long as this system stays in place. I’m going where the Russian ladies are.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2022
Shcherbakova was one person. All 6 of the alleged best in the world struggled in the same competition. This was their big moment too to show us some artistic adult skating without the trick jumps they complain about, but I'll have to stick to watching someone like Kamila and Tuktik for artistry.
As for the jumping, I'm not really into quads I'm a fan of Kamila for her artistry, plasticity and choreography. But still I expect a minimum standard. Kamila hasn't missed a triple all season. Instead in the final of the other league I saw them under-rotating doubles.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2022
I'm not sure about that. The Olympic free skate was maybe the most intense event ever held, Kamila with the eyes of the world on her, under incredible scrutiny, it's nothing odd about her having a really bad skate. Trusova might have had a meltdown when she didn't win gold, but she seems emotional in general, makes emotional decisions throughout her career, however she delivered the best skate of her life on the ice. Shcherbakova was perfect. So when the pressure is at its maximum the Russian ladies generally perform. Kamila was also setting new world records or equalling them at every skate last season until the last one and we know why that didn't work out.
Compared to the rival event on the weekend where there was no scrutiny, few people watching if you look at the streaming numbers and vast swathes of empty seats, all skaters underperformed.
The world champion was most baffling of all. She hasn't been the same since the end of last season, came back in different condition. I wonder if she's being more careful now after seeing what happened to another skater. All three medallists from the Olympics lost their conditioning at the end of the season, could there be a commonality there?
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2022
Trusova is the only skater genuinely over scored (imo only) this season and she shouldn't be at the GP final (just my opinion is all). Kamila maybe 5 points overall over scored in stage 1 but nothing egregious.
Yametova I felt was underscored at the GP events.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
I'm not saying she or anyone else would definitely have crashed in the GPF, no one knows. I certainly am not saying that Mai (who I love a whole lot and am thrilled she will be announced in history and future ice shows as GPF champion) or Kaori is better than any or all of the skaters who weren't there for whatever reason. Sakamoto beat Valieva in Beijing when - probably because - the latter has that meltdown (and I know about the pressure, she isn't the first or the last to be under even if it was unusually high). And Mihara beat Sakamoto in Turin when she did the same.
I'm saying the women's FS was a dumpster fire. They happen. And that assuming one's favourite who for whatever reason isn't at a dumpster fire day would have been the one to escape burning is an exercise in buttering parsnips.
Last edited:
I knew i would find tea here
I didn't watch the GP series and only watched a bit of women final, mostly Mihara. But from the results, it seems to be a very bombed event. That's something that happens rarely in ladies' field, with Russians or without Russians, it's more common in men and pairs.
Doesn't mean that those girls are usually that bad. But for sure the field lacks spice imo. There is less competitive value for me when equally strong or stronger skaters are not there (especially for reasons that have nothing to do with sport). That's why i didn't bother to watch 2021 NHK as soon as Kihira, Trusova and Usacheva were out.
I don't know what would have happened if russians were allowed to compete. Maybe they would have had at least 3 entries as usual, but not a podium sweep. Ice is slippery. It happened only once in all those years of domination.
I didn't watch the GP series and only watched a bit of women final, mostly Mihara. But from the results, it seems to be a very bombed event. That's something that happens rarely in ladies' field, with Russians or without Russians, it's more common in men and pairs.
Doesn't mean that those girls are usually that bad. But for sure the field lacks spice imo. There is less competitive value for me when equally strong or stronger skaters are not there (especially for reasons that have nothing to do with sport). That's why i didn't bother to watch 2021 NHK as soon as Kihira, Trusova and Usacheva were out.
I don't know what would have happened if russians were allowed to compete. Maybe they would have had at least 3 entries as usual, but not a podium sweep. Ice is slippery. It happened only once in all those years of domination.
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2022
Surely all of them can perform better than what we saw this weekend. But to me it looked as if they even did not aspire for it. The motivation is lacking, and not just now, the whole GP was very subpar. To make it relevant to this topic, IMO the absence of russian women took the high aspirations of the others away.I knew i would find tea here
I didn't watch the GP series and only watched a bit of women final, mostly Mihara. But from the results, it seems to be a very bombed event. That's something that happens rarely in ladies' field, with Russians or without Russians, it's more common in men and pairs.
Doesn't mean that those girls are usually that bad. But for sure the field lacks spice imo. There is less competitive value for me when equally strong or stronger skaters are not there (especially for reasons that have nothing to do with sport). That's why i didn't bother to watch 2021 NHK as soon as Kihira, Trusova and Usacheva were out.
I don't know what would have happened if russians were allowed to compete. Maybe they would have had at least 3 entries as usual, but not a podium sweep. Ice is slippery. It happened only once in all those years of domination.
Generally, when there is someone extraordinary in a starting field in any sport, it can motivate the others, when they see what is possible. Now, not. Yes, some may object that it can actually demotivate (like "oh, this and this will medal, why to even try), but I disagree. Sport is and always was about challenge and inspiration.
I knew i would find tea here
I didn't watch the GP series and only watched a bit of women final, mostly Mihara. But from the results, it seems to be a very bombed event. That's something that happens rarely in ladies' field, with Russians or without Russians, it's more common in men and pairs.
Doesn't mean that those girls are usually that bad. But for sure the field lacks spice imo. There is less competitive value for me when equally strong or stronger skaters are not there (especially for reasons that have nothing to do with sport). That's why i didn't bother to watch 2021 NHK as soon as Kihira, Trusova and Usacheva were out.
I don't know what would have happened if russians were allowed to compete. Maybe they would have had at least 3 entries as usual, but not a podium sweep. Ice is slippery. It happened only once in all those years of domination.
Well to be fair the last quad was probably the most dominant time for Russian ladies and Covid claimed 2 finals, last year 5 of 6 ladies qualifiers were Russian ladies.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2022
Truthfully, I do not care for the ISU events this year and did not watch but I did watch the Juniors Grand prix final for ladies. They were good in my opinion. They made mistakes but that is okay.
Based on these heated debates lately about our current senior ladies vs the international disaster that you all say happened in women's GP final I will give in today and watch this final you are all going on about and come back to this conversation with my own two cents
I will be back....
Based on these heated debates lately about our current senior ladies vs the international disaster that you all say happened in women's GP final I will give in today and watch this final you are all going on about and come back to this conversation with my own two cents
I will be back....
- Status
