2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[JimR]

It's different to compete domestically and compete on the biggest world stage with a task of perfect or close to perfect skate and bringing 3 spots back home.
I wouldn't call Muravieva or Petrosian steely competitors for that matter.
Whoever is sent will for sure get 2 spots (for placing in top 10), but getting gold or silver to claim 3 spots will for sure be a psychological burden for the chosen one.

Petrosian at Nationals struggled after coming off an injury, but still 235 total. Since then she's added an extra quad. She's going to have a BV 5 points higher in the SP and 20 points higher in the FS, and for components at least equal to Sakamoto or Haein Lee.

It would not be a contest.

 

[JimR]

I would hardly call Kamila or Anna a jumping bean.

Kamila is probably the most complete skater there ever was. I’ll put her non jumping elements up against anyone, no problem.

And the goal of top level sports is to win, or in this case, amass the most points. Preferably to outscore someone so badly that you crush their will to compete.

It’s not to focus on having “mature” skaters, whatever that means, or “complete” skaters, even though as mentioned above, Kamala certainly resembles that remark, and has “complete” to spare.

It's just a way to diminish their success by labelling them jumping beans. They are the most artisic female skaters in the world. Just compare Shimada the best in the world compared to Gorbacheva in the videos above. One skaters uses her whole body the other skates on two feet with her arms out to the side like she's trying to hold her balance. Shimada's program is badly choreographed too which doesn't help and is obviously not her fault. She needs a Daniil Gleik.

Sakamoto does a program with dance elements and it consists of moving her arms above her head to the beat of the music. You will see better on a dancefloor at 4am. Kamila does something with dance elements it's like a professional dancer on skates. It's like nothing we've ever seen before.

It's mind blowing what the Russian women are doing.

I would like a situation with the Russian women where they just skip all ISU events except the world championship and Olympics. Should the Russian skaters be allowed to compete at ISU level again, I think the ISU only offer them one spot each year. They'll say something like you're not representing a country, so just one spot. Doesn't matter if you win.

But that's fine. I just don't want the ISU world championship interfering with the women's Russian domestic season which is more prestiguous, more professional, higher prizemoney, greater marketing opportunities, easily accessible, a much deeper level of talent. If you had three skaters going the ISU level GP final, Europeans, Worlds, it would destroy the domestic series.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

It's different to compete domestically and compete on the biggest world stage with a task of perfect or close to perfect skate and bringing 3 spots back home.
I wouldn't call Muravieva or Petrosian steely competitors for that matter.
Whoever is sent will for sure get 2 spots (for placing in top 10), but getting gold or silver to claim 3 spots will for sure be a psychological burden for the chosen one.

I disagree.

Here are my points:

First let's be clear that not a single person at worlds was perfect.
No perfection is needed for any of the Russians to win considering all 3 medalists had errors. 2 with major errors (Gold, and Bronze).

1st fact - Two falls on regular triples = a bronze medal this year
2nd fact - A popped triple and under rotations on triples = a gold medal as well

Not a single Russian lady at the top needs to be perfect when this is a regular issue internationally. The field is not tough by Russian Lady standards. Anna needed to be tough against Aliona, Trusova, Kami, Maiia, etc who all had ultra-c and were her teammates. Being the only Russian there and most likely guaranteed to have the highest tech would be a relief with no other skater at your level technically.

In Muravieva's defense with her skills, she can go back to her junior level and win with only triples. She is that strong (at least prior to her injury).

She won all her GP's her very first international season in Juniors under a lot of pressure being the last to go and deliver back to back clean skates in the short and the free for a GP final spot.

She is 100% steely without ultra-c which with her level of PCS would be an easy podium win internationally.

Being the only Russian skater there she does not have to worry about doing multiple risky quads or triple axels. Muravieva started regressing terribly after introducing ultra-c and getting injured. Most of her skates without it are mainly always clean even under heavy pressure. With ultra-c she's 50/50.

She is absolutely not Shcherbakova. No one is. Maybe RUSFED will pay Anna top dollar to return after fully healing and re-gain the 3 spots in one go since she's the most reliable (though I am not sure if Anna would be motivated to return. She said she's not retiring, but what would be the motivation? Another olympic medal she has already won? ). Though internationally it's not an all out battle of ultra-c like it is in Russia. Anna is not needed to win spots. If another amazing and chaotic Trusova level skater shows up internationally then maybe they can push Anna to come back for another Olympic level nerves of steel mental strength miracle gold medal win against 5 or more unstable quads, but since that is not the case Anna can relax doing ice shows. The reigning olympic champion does not need to be summoned as a crisis of that level has not yet happened.

Any of the girls (barring Akateva and Alina) at the top of the Russian field at Nationals could win 3 spots if two falls on triple jumps = a bronze medal. It's the Worlds standard for bronze. The ask isn't hard. There is zero need to be mentally tough when the best you need to compete against will fall on two triples or pop their triples which is enough for bronze as well as gold.

There are no new competitors with surprise stable ultra-c to fear. Tuk would have the easiest wins this season without breaking a sweat, and if the field continues the same as it did this season there is no need to be mentally tough. Unless Mao bypasses the rules the girls are good to go in seniors.

Adeliia does not fall on triples unless injured like she was this season. Prior to this season's injury she seldom fell on triples and in terms of triples was without a doubt reliable. I'll have to see how she is next season after acquiring all these jumps that she has (4T, 4S, 4F, 4Lo, 3A) and healing from her last injury. We'll see if she falls on her triples after healing next season (unless she's injured again). Adeliia with a triple axel would have had short program advantage (she only fell on 3A once this entire season which is more stable than all of international attempts) and unless she bombs the free by falling on all her jumps she would easily earn 3 spots based on this year's results (2 falls = a bronze medal). With two falls from nationals, a similar tech score, and a low level 60 in PCS Adeliia would still beat everyone internationally in a free skate with 155+ points to lead. No perfection needed.

Barely anyone internationally is stable (not even with ultra-c just triples. It is not at all a tough ask). It's mainly the Russian ladies that are tough to beat in domestic comps that you need the mental toughness for. They'll win 3 spots easily by the current international standard and current level of using PCS as a crutch to push unclean skaters ahead of clean skaters. No perfection needed as that's the standard shown at Worlds or else the more "perfect" skaters would have been on podium.

With everyone at the same level if we have a low 64 in PCS skater vs a high 73 skater, the skater with a 64 will be destroyed. But against a top Russian lady with the tech of Adeliia a very low 60 is enough to easily win gold (with falls) against a 73 PCS skater with average tech.

If Haein or Kaori come out with a triple axel or quad with how high they get scored now then maybe yes the Russian Ladies will need that Anna level mental toughness to secure a gold medal for 3 spots. Until then it shouldn't be a tough ask because the field is nowhere near tough by Russian ladies standard.

The judges can of course give the Russian ladies 20's, 30's, and 40's in PCS to plunge them into darkness, but that would be ridiculously obvious sabotage. Low 60's in PCS is enough for a guaranteed gold win for tech rich Russian ladies even with 2 ultra-c falls (not even clean).

Muravieva easily scored 72 - 73 her very first junior international season in the short while it took years for some of the other international ladies to reach this (like the silver medalist). She is that good. With only triples she would be fine, but for a guaranteed gold win she'd at least jump one 3A in the short. If she can jump that triple axel 10 times in a row at that jumping comp with her fresh injury she should be fine by the time they are allowed back and she's healed (if she's still skating by then).

 

[uwoawuwoa]

It's just a way to diminish their success by labelling them jumping beans. They are the most artisic female skaters in the world. Just compare Shimada the best in the world compared to Gorbacheva in the videos above. One skaters uses her whole body the other skates on two feet with her arms out to the side like she's trying to hold her balance. Shimada's program is badly choreographed too which doesn't help and is obviously not her fault. She needs a Daniil Gleik.

Sakamoto does a program with dance elements and it consists of moving her arms above her head to the beat of the music. You will see better on a dancefloor at 4am. Kamila does something with dance elements it's like a professional dancer on skates. It's like nothing we've ever seen before.

It's mind blowing what the Russian women are doing.

I would like a situation with the Russian women where they just skip all ISU events except the world championship and Olympics. Should the Russian skaters be allowed to compete at ISU level again, I think the ISU only offer them one spot each year. They'll say something like you're not representing a country, so just one spot. Doesn't matter if you win.

But that's fine. I just don't want the ISU world championship interfering with the women's Russian domestic season which is more prestiguous, more professional, higher prizemoney, greater marketing opportunities, easily accessible, a much deeper level of talent. If you had three skaters going the ISU level GP final, Europeans, Worlds, it would destroy the domestic series.

If they go back I will absolutely miss the best vs the best.

I enjoyed the domestic Russian GP's, test skates, Nationals, the shows, and everything had such high production quality! I loved the creativity.

I hope it continues this way in terms of quality and creativity even if 3 of the best go to the ISU events.

If though sending 3 skaters per discipline means no creativity or high level productions anymore I would rather it stay like this. It's been nice honestly. I watched everything easily without having to go to strange peacocks to watch live at inconvenient times for me. Peacocks also don't give replays to watch at later times while all the Russian events did so, I definitely enjoyed the separate events and higher quality in everything. It was sad at first but became a blessing in disguise. Everything was much higher quality and more entertaining. Also, yes, more prize money!

I agree with going to bigger events like Euros, Worlds and Olys, (I personally would add Euros because I think the field regressed severely there compared to 4CC so it would benefit the European side if at least 1 strong Russian lady was there), but they would be doing the domestic comps against the strongest skaters rather than the GP stages. It's been nice watching tougher favorites and newer breakout stars go head to head in the same comp this season instead of waiting several seasons to finally see them go head to head. Akateva vs Kami, Tuk, Adeliia, Sofia S, Sofia M, etc. was nice to witness because it would never happen for a while internationally given the age thing. Alina competing as senior this season was awesome which wouldn't be possible internationally so I'd like to see more like that in the next few seasons.

Since the separation I watched all domestic events linked here including novice which I would not have watched if I was doomed to stay with Peacocks, but I am so glad I did. Cannot wait to see how some of the girls fair in juniors next season!

 

[alexocfp]

My condolences to the Russian man who has to win back 3 spots with the depth in mens internationally.

I agree that any of the top women (senior and junior) I think will easily get 3 spots back.

If we are being absolutely honest here about the Russian ladies even if they place the top girls from the baby novice division (yes the little babies) to win spots for juniors or even seniors unfortunately (but fortunately for Russia) they would still win internationally against the older skaters.

The novice division for the younger ladies 12 and under is out here landing 7 triples and multiple quads per comp.

I saw little babies landing multiple 4S's, 4Lz's, and 4T's at Novice Nationals. Breaking the 300 mark and setting a record for novice division.

Even the baby girls in Russia are at an advanced level and could get the spots back for the seniors ladies internationally. It's unbelievable that the Russian ladies have advanced to such an amazing level. Also, both the winners of gold and silver at Novice Nats with quads were not even from teamtut---it's getting extremely competitive there even for the babies. If this keeps up the top 25 Russian ladies will all have triple axels and quads in the next 10 years or less. We'll be seeing multiple Russian teams (old and new) with a legion of quadsters ready to snatch the gold at Nationals.

It's the Russian men I worry for in terms of winning spots back. We just need one Nathan Chen level Russian man. Just one.

Or just send a novice girl to the men’s competition. Haha

 

[Mariiiiskate]

So with IOCs new rulings on Russian skaters admission to international competition what will exactly happen to CSKA skaters?
Will they jump ship or on paper represent another club outside of Moscow but train in CSKA facilities anyway?

 

[Amei]

So with IOCs new rulings on Russian skaters admission to international competition what will exactly happen to CSKA skaters?
Will they jump ship or on paper represent another club outside of Moscow but train in CSKA facilities anyway?

I believe CSKA is not officially part of the military any longer, there was some historical connections yes but I remember last year after a couple issues with CSKA hockey players being drafted that the club said they had no affiliation to the military because people were saying that those players hockey play was considered their conscription service (all Russian men between 18-25 have to serve 1 year in the military, from what I know)

 

[Corwin]

So with IOCs new rulings on Russian skaters admission to international competition what will exactly happen to CSKA skaters?
Will they jump ship or on paper represent another club outside of Moscow but train in CSKA facilities anyway?

The most natural thing would be to skip these Olympics, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone decided to go in such a humiliating status.

 

[icewhite]

The most natural thing would be to skip these Olympics, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone decided to go in such a humiliating status.

humiliating

 

[Amei]

The most natural thing would be to skip these Olympics, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone decided to go in such a humiliating status.

Easy for spectators to say they should skip events as long as the war neutral status is required, but these athletes train and sacrifice for dreams attached to international starts not continuous domestic competitions

 

[Corwin]

Easy for spectators to say they should skip events as long as the war neutral status is required, but these athletes train and sacrifice for dreams attached to international starts not continuous domestic competitions

Oh, it's a well-known mantra, "They must perform, even if without the flag and anthem, they have trained all their lives, the age of an athlete is short..." Okay, if they want to compete in international competitions, then let them compete on their own funds. What good is the State from these "neutral" athletes.

 

[yume]

So with IOCs new rulings on Russian skaters admission to international competition what will exactly happen to CSKA skaters?
Will they jump ship or on paper represent another club outside of Moscow but train in CSKA facilities anyway?

That's very much what will probably happen.

 

[JimR]

The have performed the last two Olympics without their flags, but even if they were banned the results of the domestics events, video from domestic event will be there for all to see in posterity. There will be no question who the best female skaters were from this era.

China is huge now to the Olympics. China's view towards Russian athletes would carry a lot of weight.

To not let Russia compete is a violation of the Olympic truce, the Olympic spirit. In ancient Greece they were prepared to lay down arms to allow their enemies to compete. Plus of course, Russian athletes have no influence over foreign policy. It's ludicrous they are being held responsible for state decisions.

 

[JimR]

The ISU calendar works well for the Russian skaters next year. There's two GP events in China including the final, one in Japan. Russian skaters will definitely go to those two events because those populations will be accepting of them, there will be no outright hostility towards them (except from maybe fellow competitors). Europeans are in Hungary which is a country with relatively cordial relations with Russia.

Then there's Canada for worlds. They'll get a hard time there the Russians, but if it's Adelia turning up as the lone representative you'd have to be quite churlish to hurl abuse at a 145cm tall child of Armenian background.

I hope the full domestic calendar continues and there's no reason if only one representative is being sent to these events.

 

[alexocfp]

I understand certain places are ultra nationalistic. I spend my summers as a child and teen in Greece and saw first hand how the Balkans take this stuff seriously.

But who cares what flag anyone represents in an individual sport? I’m a fan of the athletes and couldn’t care less what flag they are waving or not waving. I’ll root for an athlete from any country. And by any, I mean any, with no exceptions whatsoever.

Same way I don’t root for American or Greek athletes just because they are Greek.

I cheer for the ladies from Russia currently because not only are they the best in the world at what they do, but also share the same sporting values I have.

Anna, for instance, is my prototype for the prefect athlete.

 

[Amei]

I understand certain places are ultra nationalistic. I spend my summers as a child and teen in Greece and saw first hand how the Balkans take this stuff seriously.

But who cares what flag anyone represents in an individual sport? I’m a fan of the athletes and couldn’t care less what flag they are waving or not waving. I’ll root for an athlete from any country. And by any, I mean any, with no exceptions whatsoever.

Same way I don’t root for American or Greek athletes just because they are Greek.

I cheer for the ladies from Russia currently because not only are they the best in the world at what they do, but also share the same sporting values I have.

Anna, for instance, is my prototype for the prefect athlete.

I would say there should be a conversation around whether the ISU should move away from representation based on nationality where national colors/passport wouldn't matter and thus the current situation with Russian/Belarussian athletes shouldn't be a situation or would have easily been able to be handled like tennis was. I mean to an extent it is a bit of a farcical situation anyways with many "small feds" being represented by skaters from other bigger countries in some instances those skaters have familial ties to the new country they represent, but sometimes they do not.

 

[icewhite]

I would say there should be a conversation around whether the ISU should move away from representation based on nationality where national colors/passport wouldn't matter and thus the current situation with Russian/Belarussian athletes shouldn't be a situation or would have easily been able to be handled like tennis was. I mean to an extent it is a bit of a farcical situation anyways with many "small feds" being represented by skaters from other bigger countries in some instances those skaters have familial ties to the new country they represent, but sometimes they do not.

In that I agree with you. I don't know why nationalism has to be the major factor in interest and financing of sportive events.
But from talks with different people where I brought that up before I know that this, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be a feasible idea for most. For too many people it is so closely linked, even if they aren't very nationalistic they care mostly about athletes from their own country because they have a "special connection" to them. Of course that often only happens because those athletes are looked at closer by their media, they know more about their private lives, their stories... But anyway, like I said, I would love it, but I don't see it happening for non-pro sports that don't finance themselves through other means.

 

[alexocfp]

In that I agree with you. I don't know why nationalism has to be the major factor in interest and financing of sportive events.
But from talks with different people where I brought that up before I know that this, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be a feasible idea for most. For too many people it is so closely linked, even if they aren't very nationalistic they care mostly about athletes from their own country because they have a "special connection" to them. Of course that often only happens because those athletes are looked at closer by their media, they know more about their private lives, their stories... But anyway, like I said, I would love it, but I don't see it happening for non-pro sports that don't finance themselves through other means.

The bolded part may have been true years ago, but in 2023 that is no longer the case.

We can easily go online and find news and get to know the athletes from any country. Even if we don’t speak their language, translators are readily available. The way it’s going though, those of us who follow Russian ladies skating day in and day out will be fluent in Russian soon.

Places like this bring you the news from everywhere in the world too.

We were able to follow the domestic season without any issues since everything is streamed live.

The choice now isn’t between watching what your broadcaster offers you or nothing. That’s the beauty of our current system. Don’t have to be reliant on NBC for the product.

Imagine this spilt happening in 1993. There would be no way to see the Russian ladies unless you had a satellite dish bigger than your yard.

And you would be stuck only having access to the ISU and USA events, probably on one week tape delay. Luckily, we don’t live in that world now.

 

[Skatelife]

The bolded part may have been true years ago, but in 2023 that is no longer the case.

We can easily go online and find news and get to know the athletes from any country. Even if we don’t speak their language, translators are readily available. The way it’s going though, those of us who follow Russian ladies skating day in and day out will be fluent in Russian soon.

Places like this bring you the news from everywhere in the world too.

We were able to follow the domestic season without any issues since everything is streamed live.

The choice now isn’t between watching what your broadcaster offers you or nothing. That’s the beauty of our current system. Don’t have to be reliant on NBC for the product.

Imagine this spilt happening in 1993. There would be no way to see the Russian ladies unless you had a satellite dish bigger than your yard.

And you would be stuck only having access to the ISU and USA events, probably on one week tape delay. Luckily, we don’t live in that world now.

Actually during the year I only watched Russian events mostly because is very easy to find in YouTube without any vpn, you can watch live o watch at any suitable time, I don't understand a Russian word, but now I even know novice skaters.
I hope the Russian GP will continue next season.

 

[DoubleBass]

It's just a way to diminish their success by labelling them jumping beans. They are the most artisic female skaters in the world. Just compare Shimada the best in the world compared to Gorbacheva in the videos above. One skaters uses her whole body the other skates on two feet with her arms out to the side like she's trying to hold her balance. Shimada's program is badly choreographed too which doesn't help and is obviously not her fault. She needs a Daniil Gleik.

Sakamoto does a program with dance elements and it consists of moving her arms above her head to the beat of the music. You will see better on a dancefloor at 4am. Kamila does something with dance elements it's like a professional dancer on skates. It's like nothing we've ever seen before.

It's mind blowing what the Russian women are doing.

I would like a situation with the Russian women where they just skip all ISU events except the world championship and Olympics. Should the Russian skaters be allowed to compete at ISU level again, I think the ISU only offer them one spot each year. They'll say something like you're not representing a country, so just one spot. Doesn't matter if you win.

But that's fine. I just don't want the ISU world championship interfering with the women's Russian domestic season which is more prestiguous, more professional, higher prizemoney, greater marketing opportunities, easily accessible, a much deeper level of talent. If you had three skaters going the ISU level GP final, Europeans, Worlds, it would destroy the domestic series.

They need to create a new league, a fully commercial one, because domestic events are by design qualification championships for international competitions, under such system Russian nationals or Russian GP or whatever will never hold the same weight and be as prestigious as international ones like WC or the Olympics, it's just human psychology.
Drop the RusFed, drop the ISU and create a new league, make some changes in order to make the sport more watchable for the new fans and the rules more understandable, split the judging panel (tech and components separately) the demand is there, the money is certainly there, make sure every skater who participates in the new league will get paid enough even if they don't end up in the top 10, the average level will increase real quick, it will be an elite league, let the ISU keep "popularizing" the sport by inviting feds from India or Indonesia with their single and double jumps, nobody cares, people want brutal competition, drama, fan wars, blood etc lol the new Zagitova vs Medvedeva ,imagine if at least top 10 girls are at that level and each one of them has a chance to be on the podium, that'd be insane, that's the only way of nurturing the depth of the Russian ladies figure skating, not the 3 quotas nonsense. The ISU and the RusFed will continue their existence separately, if your level is not high enough for the league, you go compete at the ISU events or you go to a farm league where you get the chance to qualify for the major league next year if you work hard enough while somebody at the bottom drops out.
If the league is successful it will be more prestigious to win the Golden Boot (or whatever the name they'd come up with for the trophy, win it three times call it a Diamond boot lol, so many ideas) than the Olympics, just like it's more prestigious to win the Stanley Cup than the Olympics in hockey. I mean $25k-30k for winning the WC what the hell is that? That's a joke.