2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[uwoawuwoa]

All three would beat Shimada. Against Russian skaters, she would still receive a 'Japanese bonus' but not the mushrooms we're seeing over the past 12 months for particular skaters because the Russian girls are on such a higher level for jump technique and choreography that it would be scandalous if her components and jumps received higher marks.

In the Junior World's final the technical panel fell asleep for Shimada.

Her sole quad the 4T was on the q, but probably could have been called as an UR if judges were looking to pull down her score.

He rides from end to end with her arms sticking out to the side with a lot of two footed skating.

Against, Akatieva, Gorbacheva, Zhilina, there is no way judges could overlook her jump issues, and relative lack of skating skills compared to the three best in Russia.

Zhilina had 4 quads and a 3A in the final right? The jumps are more controlled, there's an easy power, and while her components should not be as high as Akatieva and Gorbacheva, they would definitely be higher than Shimada.

I agree about Akatieva without a doubt being unbeatable in comparison and Gorbacheva following behind, but I am not sure about Zhilina. Akatieva and Zhilina would go for 3A advantage, but Zhilina is still a lot more unstable with her 3A which would cost her dearly like it did at Junior RUS Nats (and yes Akateva has been unstable this season but I would bet on Akateva landing a 3A rather than Zhilina).

Gorbacheva only needed one 4S to beat Zhilina after her mistake despite having a 12 point lead in tech in the FS. I think Zhilina would have to play it safe with a 2A instead since with a 3A fall or pop in the short the international judges can easily keep her down if they follow the same method as the Judges at JR RUS NATS.

One quad (even on q) could beat Zhilina sadly no matter if she jumps 3 or more quads in the free. That is the message the Judges at Russian Junior Nationals sent by letting Gorbacheva win with only one quad and a clean skate. So if Mao is cleaner with only a single 4T jump (and mostly adding a 3A) Zhilina would lose. That's message the sent.

I mean the scoring for Zhilina domestically with all her ultra-c (3A, 4T, 4S, 4T) at Russian Nationals put her about 6 points below a clean Mao internationally at worlds with only a 3A and a 4T. I think Zhilina would need a more stable 3A in the short to guarantee a win at worlds, because it wasn't enough against a single quad (with no triple axel) at Russian Nats.

Gorbacheva has issues at times with falling on regular triples in comp while I don't see the same issue for Akatieva. If Gorbacheva is stable on her triples I would have her and Akatieva as locks for 1st and 2nd at worlds since both would do at least two quads in the free.

If Zhilina skates clean with two quads or even one I would guarentee a 3rd podium spot---especially since she has cleaner technique and much higher jumps.

 

[RatedPG]

I agree about Akatieva without a doubt being unbeatable in comparison and Gorbacheva following behind, but I am not sure about Zhilina. Akatieva and Zhilina would go for 3A advantage, but Zhilina is still a lot more unstable with her 3A which would cost her dearly like it did at Junior RUS Nats (and yes Akateva has been unstable this season but I would bet on Akateva landing a 3A rather than Zhilina).

Gorbacheva only needed one 4S to beat Zhilina after her mistake despite having a 12 point lead in tech in the FS. I think Zhilina would have to play it safe with a 2A instead since with a 3A fall or pop in the short the international judges can easily keep her down if they follow the same method as the Judges at JR RUS NATS.

One quad (even on q) could beat Zhilina sadly no matter if she jumps 3 or more quads in the free. That is the message the Judges at Russian Junior Nationals sent by letting Gorbacheva win with only one quad and a clean skate. So if Mao is cleaner with only a single 4T jump (and mostly adding a 3A) Zhilina would lose. That's message the sent.

I mean the scoring for Zhilina domestically with all her ultra-c (3A, 4T, 4S, 4T) at Russian Nationals put her about 6 points below a clean Mao internationally at worlds with only a 3A and a 4T. I think Zhilina would need a more stable 3A in the short to guarantee a win at worlds, because it wasn't enough against a single quad (with no triple axel) at Russian Nats.

Gorbacheva has issues at times with falling on regular triples in comp while I don't see the same issue for Akatieva. If Gorbacheva is stable on her triples I would have her and Akatieva as locks for 1st and 2nd at worlds since both would do at least two quads in the free.

If Zhilina skates clean with two quads or even one I would guarentee a 3rd podium spot---especially since she has cleaner technique and much higher jumps.

This summarizes my thought process 100%. Zhilina going for that 3A combo cost her the win at Nationals over Alina’s one amazing 4S. Also, at her one event last year, Zhilina scored 216, with clean SP and 3 quads in the free skate. This year, Mao landed 3A and 4T and I think her score of 224 was higher than Zhilina and Alina at Jr. Nationals (even though I think those domestic scores are a bit inflated). So, that was my thought process. Also, Mao’ triples are so consistent. I think she executed all her triples perfectly this season, domestically and internationally. That was like 6 events.

Akatieva is amazing! She would win most of the time. It was just that one Russian Cup event where she fell on all her ultra-c jumps in the free skate and lost to Elizaveta and Sofia. Other than that one event, she was pretty solid and at a higher level than Mao, Alina, and Veronika.

 

[JimR]

Keep in mind that Shimada in the two JGP events, JGP final, junior worlds, had a q or UR on every quad attempt. One attempt she fell. So it's not a reliable jump. I think she'll have even trouble maintaining this jump if she grows because she struggles to rotate it as it is and has a wild technique. There's none of that easy power and control like Zhilina has.

Gorbacheva went with one quad in the junior nationals because she had enough of a lead over Zhilina, but effectively has a program with two more or less stable quads and her jumps continue to improve. Shimada has a program with no stable quads.

At junior worlds, Shimada received a 68 for PCS in the free skate, Gorbacheva who clearly much superior in all aspects of components received 66.5 for a clean skate that included a clean quad.

In a competition where both Shimada and Gorbacheva compete, if both are clean then Shimada will never beat Gorbacheva for components.

Watch them side by side no-one can honestly say Shimada is at all equal to Gorbacheva for components.





Judges have their favourites, but they also don't want to make themselves look like complete fools. The 224 she scored in total at junior worlds is not really a true score and is inflated due to her relative superiority to the rest of the field and bonus for being from a particular federation.

If Gorbacheva is getting 66.5 for a clean skate, then Shimada should be getting a few points less. Gorbacheva has more beautiful jumps, so Shimada will have lower GOE relative to Gorbacheva all else being equal.

Then there's Akatieva who is on a different level again there is no comparison.

Zhilina's components will not be questioned in a field of international juniors it is only against Russian girls that she looks lacking in something. Still, Zhilina scored 218 with a disaster SP.

 

[yume]

All these posts make me think about what a showdown we could have had between Russia and Japan in juniors, finally. It would have been like 2015-2017 seasons.

 

[JimR]

I can't get the full interview from L'Equipe maybe someone else can.

“I really don’t know what happened. My skaters have always been clean athletes. These accusations are offensive.” Tutberidze about Valieva’s doping case

Eteri Tutberidze about Kamila Valieva's doping case.

fs-gossips.com

I'm sure she's some how offended a lot of people. She hasn't commented for 13 months.

 

[yume]

To me, the situation was very clear in Russia. If you look at results from Nationals, out of age eligible skaters (minus Valieva), it was

1) Elizaveta (3A)
2) Muravieva (3A)
3) Adeliya (3A, 4T)

Then, from Russian Cup, it was:

1) Adeliya (4F , 3A, 4T)
2) Elizaveta (3A)
3) Muravieva (3A)

Those three skaters were the clear front runners this year and the only three that could have beaten Kaori and Haein at Worlds. The rest, would have lost to these two skaters. Also, Elizaveta should try for 4T (her landing a quad at her age would resonate and build her reputation). Also, Muravieva has landed 4S in practice. But, like Elizaveta, she can’t land it in competition. Sofia Muravieva is fine with her 3A. I think that just having this jump and being consistent will put her in the National Team for years to come. She can Alena axel and defeats ladies with inconsistent quads if she puts out programs that suit her skills set and style. I didn’t like her programs that much this year.

Also, for Juniors, it was clear what the team would have been:

1) Akatieva - Winner of Sr. Nationals
2) Alina G - Winner of Jr. Nationals and skated excellent at Russian Cup
3) Veronika Z - Runner up of Jr. Nationals and winner of Jr. Russian Cup

These three were the clear top 3. However, with Mao Shimada, I think only Akatieva would have beaten the performance Mao put out at Junior Worlds. Those were the top 6 skaters plus Valieva from Russia this year, that skated 220+ performances.

Haein Lee getting that huge score suddenly is surprising. But yes, if we take into account only 220+ scores, looks like only 3 skaters (minus Valieva) would have beaten her. Though for me she would go head to head with Veronika Yametova.

 

[yume]

I can't get the full interview from L'Equipe maybe someone else can.

“I really don’t know what happened. My skaters have always been clean athletes. These accusations are offensive.” Tutberidze about Valieva’s doping case

Eteri Tutberidze about Kamila Valieva's doping case.

fs-gossips.com

I'm sure she's some how offended a lot of people. She hasn't commented for 13 months.

Twitter must be in flames.

 

[alexocfp]

So, after watching Worlds it made me think. When the Russians come back, how will it happen?

When it comes to the ladies, can we keep it the way it is?

This was a fantastic season filled with memorable events, a lot of parity, and a gala competition for the ages.

Plus as an added bonus or 2, all these domestic events not only increased our knowledge of Russian skaters lower down like I thought it would, but also improved our geography and our command of the Cyrillic Alphabet.

After 7 months of domestic competition, I can make out the vast majority of skaters without the need for a translator.

And as a super bonus, since I didn’t watch a millisecond of any ISU sanctioned figure skating events, I didn’t have to deal with their torrid website.

 

[icewhite]

Not for a long time, even though we see Russians compete in other sports all around the world with no issues, even in countries quite hostile to them. It's probably not the right thread to discuss why.

How will it happen you ask?

By Russian women winning Russian Nationals with scores of 210, Russia would be allowed to compete again.

You are aware that Russians are banned in most sports because people are not comfortable with them there - although they mostly don't play any role in that sport? Do you think people who are advocating the ban all care about female figure skating??? I know many people in my country who are very much against Russians competing internationally and I think they couldn't even name one single current figure skater and have no idea that Russian girl skaters have been dominating their discipline. To think that ban occured because of them... my...

 

[icewhite]

Let’s be honest though, whichever Russian survives the internal pressure will be pretty far out in front of the rest of the world… I just browsed scores from worlds. Someone correct me if I’ve overstated that.

I also think they will be fine. "Even" Tuktamysheva, that is an adult without quads, would be able to win three spots back, I'm sure.
It will be much more pressure on the man who is expected to do it, because the current crop is excellent on a broad level, but none of them is a sure bet for a podium place.

 

[icewhite]

Haein Lee getting that huge score suddenly is surprising. But yes, if we take into account only 220+ scores, looks like only 3 skaters (minus Valieva) would have beaten her. Though for me she would go head to head with Veronika Yametova.

I am not a fan of Haein Lee because her programs bore me, but she's a really beautiful skater, and beautiful (basic) skating was rewarded at this competition overall.
I think someone like Muravieva has very good prospects for a possible future with comeback Russians. Someone like Kostornaia, if she was still able to compete in singles, would rule without quads.
In case Russia is interested in getting results in the future with slightly older skaters they should focus more on having complete, mature skaters with high, but not extreme, level content instead of just "jumping beans". They absolutely have the talent. But I think it needs some change in the way they access this and how the girls spend their training time.

 

[yume]

interested in getting results in the future with slightly older skaters they should focus more on having complete, mature skaters with high, but not extreme, level content instead of just "jumping beans". They absolutely have the talent. But I think it needs some change in the way they access this and how the girls spend their training time.

Russian fed reading this.

 

[alexocfp]

I am not a fan of Haein Lee because her programs bore me, but she's a really beautiful skater, and beautiful (basic) skating was rewarded at this competition overall.
I think someone like Muravieva has very good prospects for a possible future with comeback Russians. Someone like Kostornaia, if she was still able to compete in singles, would rule without quads.
In case Russia is interested in getting results in the future with slightly older skaters they should focus more on having complete, mature skaters with high, but not extreme, level content instead of just "jumping beans". They absolutely have the talent. But I think it needs some change in the way they access this and how the girls spend their training time.

I would hardly call Kamila or Anna a jumping bean.

Kamila is probably the most complete skater there ever was. I’ll put her non jumping elements up against anyone, no problem.

And the goal of top level sports is to win, or in this case, amass the most points. Preferably to outscore someone so badly that you crush their will to compete.

It’s not to focus on having “mature” skaters, whatever that means, or “complete” skaters, even though as mentioned above, Kamala certainly resembles that remark, and has “complete” to spare.

 

[alexocfp]

You are aware that Russians are banned in most sports because people are not comfortable with them there - although they mostly don't play any role in that sport? Do you think people who are advocating the ban all care about female figure skating??? I know many people in my country who are very much against Russians competing internationally and I think they couldn't even name one single current figure skater and have no idea that Russian girl skaters have been dominating their discipline. To think that ban occured because of them... my...

There are so many threads in this forum that address the ban, no need to bring it to this one.

 

[icewhite]

I would hardly call Kamila or Anna a jumping bean.

Kamila is probably the most complete skater there ever was. I’ll put her non jumping elements up against anyone, no problem.

And the goal of top level sports is to win, or in this case, amass the most points. Preferably to outscore someone so badly that you crush their will to compete.

It’s not to focus on having “mature” skaters, whatever that means, or “complete” skaters, even though as mentioned above, Kamala certainly resembles that remark, and has “complete” to spare.

I didn't call any specific skater a jumping bean and I put the expression in "". Russia overall just values jumping and quads too much in women's, I think, in comparison to other skating qualities like stroking, gliding, footwork, multidimensional skating. It has paid off in terms of results, but there are other way to get results and the increase of the age limit could be an incentive to think about that. Russia's figure skating has a few factors working for them: a broad pool to start with, decent funding, infrastructure like many rinks that are open all year round, good coaches. It doesn't need to link their fate so much to young girls jumping ultra cs.

There are so many threads in this forum that address the ban, no need to bring it to this one.

Maybe you saw that I replied to someone.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

All these posts make me think about what a showdown we could have had between Russia and Japan in juniors, finally. It would have been like 2015-2017 seasons.

I don't know if it will ever happen, but if it ever does I will be ready with the popcorn.

 

[uwoawuwoa]

I also think they will be fine. "Even" Tuktamysheva, that is an adult without quads, would be able to win three spots back, I'm sure.
It will be much more pressure on the man who is expected to do it, because the current crop is excellent on a broad level, but none of them is a sure bet for a podium place.

My condolences to the Russian man who has to win back 3 spots with the depth in mens internationally.

I agree that any of the top women (senior and junior) I think will easily get 3 spots back.

If we are being absolutely honest here about the Russian ladies even if they place the top girls from the baby novice division (yes the little babies) to win spots for juniors or even seniors unfortunately (but fortunately for Russia) they would still win internationally against the older skaters.

The novice division for the younger ladies 12 and under is out here landing 7 triples and multiple quads per comp.

I saw little babies landing multiple 4S's, 4Lz's, and 4T's at Novice Nationals. Breaking the 300 mark and setting a record for novice division.

Even the baby girls in Russia are at an advanced level and could get the spots back for the seniors ladies internationally. It's unbelievable that the Russian ladies have advanced to such an amazing level. Also, both the winners of gold and silver at Novice Nats with quads were not even from teamtut---it's getting extremely competitive there even for the babies. If this keeps up the top 25 Russian ladies will all have triple axels and quads in the next 10 years or less. We'll be seeing multiple Russian teams (old and new) with a legion of quadsters ready to snatch the gold at Nationals.

It's the Russian men I worry for in terms of winning spots back. We just need one Nathan Chen level Russian man. Just one.

 

[brakes]

It's different to compete domestically and compete on the biggest world stage with a task of perfect or close to perfect skate and bringing 3 spots back home.
I wouldn't call Muravieva or Petrosian steely competitors for that matter.
Whoever is sent will for sure get 2 spots (for placing in top 10), but getting gold or silver to claim 3 spots will for sure be a psychological burden for the chosen one.

 

[yume]

It's different to compete domestically and compete on the biggest world stage with a task of perfect or close to perfect skate and bringing 3 spots back home.
I wouldn't call Muravieva or Petrosian steely competitors for that matter.
Whoever is sent will for sure get 2 spots (for placing in top 10), but getting gold or silver to claim 3 spots will for sure be a psychological burden for the chosen one.

Exactly. The challenge here is mental not physical. Not everyone is Scherbakova.

 

[JimR]

Haein Lee getting that huge score suddenly is surprising. But yes, if we take into account only 220+ scores, looks like only 3 skaters (minus Valieva) would have beaten her. Though for me she would go head to head with Veronika Yametova.

Haein Lee isn't getting 220 everytime. This was her maximum. She's a 210 skater. With no ultra-c it will be difficult to challenge someone like Muravieva who can easily score 230 with her stable triple axels.

This of course doesn't take into the mushrooming of skaters over Russians should they come back. Judges will find fault with everything a Russian skater does (we saw some of these tactics used at the world championship) but overlook things like Luna's q's on doubles, Sakamoto's lutz with a wrong edge, Shoma with blade assisted toe jumps.

In a straight fight with no errors and judging without an agenda, the top 5 Russian skaters beat all the ISU skaters every time.