2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[AlexBreeze]

They need to create a new league, a fully commercial one, because domestic events are by design qualification championships for international competitions, under such system Russian nationals or Russian GP or whatever will never hold the same weight and be as prestigious as international ones like WC or the Olympics, it's just human psychology.
Drop the RusFed, drop the ISU and create a new league, make some changes in order to make the sport more watchable for the new fans and the rules more understandable, split the judging panel (tech and components separately) the demand is there, the money is certainly there, make sure every skater who participates in the new league will get paid enough even if they don't end up in the top 10, the average level will increase real quick, it will be an elite league, let the ISU keep "popularizing" the sport by inviting feds from India or Indonesia with their single and double jumps, nobody cares, people want brutal competition, drama, fan wars, blood etc lol the new Zagitova vs Medvedeva ,imagine if at least top 10 girls are at that level and each one of them has a chance to be on the podium, that'd be insane, that's the only way of nurturing the depth of the Russian ladies figure skating, not the 3 quotas nonsense. The ISU and the RusFed will continue their existence separately, if your level is not high enough for the league, you go compete at the ISU events or you go to a farm league where you get the chance to qualify for the major league next year if you work hard enough while somebody at the bottom drops out.
If the league is successful it will be more prestigious to win the Golden Boot (or whatever the name they'd come up with for the trophy, win it three times call it a Diamond boot lol, so many ideas) than the Olympics, just like it's more prestigious to win the Stanley Cup than the Olympics in hockey. I mean $25k-30k for winning the WC what the hell is that? That's a joke.

I've been thinking of it all the season. Novice and junior competitions are simply overflowing.

 

[yume]

They need to create a new league, a fully commercial one, because domestic events are by design qualification championships for international competitions, under such system Russian nationals or Russian GP or whatever will never hold the same weight and be as prestigious as international ones like WC or the Olympics, it's just human psychology.
Drop the RusFed, drop the ISU and create a new league, make some changes in order to make the sport more watchable for the new fans and the rules more understandable, split the judging panel (tech and components separately) the demand is there, the money is certainly there, make sure every skater who participates in the new league will get paid enough even if they don't end up in the top 10, the average level will increase real quick, it will be an elite league, let the ISU keep "popularizing" the sport by inviting feds from India or Indonesia with their single and double jumps, nobody cares, people want brutal competition, drama, fan wars, blood etc lol the new Zagitova vs Medvedeva ,imagine if at least top 10 girls are at that level and each one of them has a chance to be on the podium, that'd be insane, that's the only way of nurturing the depth of the Russian ladies figure skating, not the 3 quotas nonsense. The ISU and the RusFed will continue their existence separately, if your level is not high enough for the league, you go compete at the ISU events or you go to a farm league where you get the chance to qualify for the major league next year if you work hard enough while somebody at the bottom drops out.
If the league is successful it will be more prestigious to win the Golden Boot (or whatever the name they'd come up with for the trophy, win it three times call it a Diamond boot lol, so many ideas) than the Olympics, just like it's more prestigious to win the Stanley Cup than the Olympics in hockey. I mean $25k-30k for winning the WC what the hell is that? That's a joke.

While reading your post i had this image in mind.

You seem so passionate about this.

 

[yume]

Now more seriously, i like the idea.

Because:
1. Figure skating prizes money are indeed a joke. If figure skaters can earn more money, even the ones who under normal circumstances wouldn't compete internationally (at least in big competitions), it's really a good thing. Such a difficult and expensive sport for clopinettes.
2. It would keep Russian figure skating alive, at the same level, even if the ban is extended for years.
3. It would be so much entertaining. For sure, Russian TV knows how to drain audience. They know how to sell figure skating. Using not only excellent skaters and excellent performances but also extra stuff that adds drama and spice.
4. Having different rules can makes things more interesting. I would like different rules for tech contents. The possibilty to have three jumps combo in SP, bonuses for creative spins, etc.
5. Only the bests compete. No one robbed because some region has to be represented. Like in tennis, you're good, you compete.

 

[klena]

Now more seriously, i like the idea.

Because:
1. Figure skating prizes money are indeed a joke. If figure skaters can earn more money, even the ones who under normal circumstances wouldn't compete internationally (at least in big competitions), it's really a good thing. Such a difficult and expensive sport for clopinettes.
2. It would keep Russian figure skating alive, at the same level, even if the ban is extended for years.
3. It would be so much entertaining. For sure, Russian TV knows how to drain audience. They know how to sell figure skating. Using not only excellent skaters and excellent performances but also extra stuff that adds drama and spice.
4. Having different rules can makes things more interesting. I would like different rules for tech contents. The possibilty to have three jumps combo in SP, bonuses for creative spins, etc.
5. Only the bests compete. No one robbed because some region has to be represented. Like in tennis, you're good, you compete.

Russian figure skaters have earned good prizes this season. The table shows the amount in thousands of dollars. (1. Valieva 2. Gumennik 3. Uno 4. Sakamoto 5. Akatieva 6. Hendriks 7. Semenenko 8. Malinin 9. Haien Li 10. Cha)

 

[klena]

They need to create a new league, a fully commercial one, because domestic events are by design qualification championships for international competitions, under such system Russian nationals or Russian GP or whatever will never hold the same weight and be as prestigious as international ones like WC or the Olympics, it's just human psychology.
Drop the RusFed, drop the ISU and create a new league, make some changes in order to make the sport more watchable for the new fans and the rules more understandable, split the judging panel (tech and components separately) the demand is there, the money is certainly there, make sure every skater who participates in the new league will get paid enough even if they don't end up in the top 10, the average level will increase real quick, it will be an elite league, let the ISU keep "popularizing" the sport by inviting feds from India or Indonesia with their single and double jumps, nobody cares, people want brutal competition, drama, fan wars, blood etc lol the new Zagitova vs Medvedeva ,imagine if at least top 10 girls are at that level and each one of them has a chance to be on the podium, that'd be insane, that's the only way of nurturing the depth of the Russian ladies figure skating, not the 3 quotas nonsense. The ISU and the RusFed will continue their existence separately, if your level is not high enough for the league, you go compete at the ISU events or you go to a farm league where you get the chance to qualify for the major league next year if you work hard enough while somebody at the bottom drops out.
If the league is successful it will be more prestigious to win the Golden Boot (or whatever the name they'd come up with for the trophy, win it three times call it a Diamond boot lol, so many ideas) than the Olympics, just like it's more prestigious to win the Stanley Cup than the Olympics in hockey. I mean $25k-30k for winning the WC what the hell is that? That's a joke.

Lakernik recently took a step in this direction. He established the Global Skating Academy. This is an exclusively commercial project. The main goal of the project is to further develop club skating. The newly created club Global Skating Academy (GSA) plans to organize camps for athletes, workshops for coaches and judges, competitions, and any on-line events.

 

[macy]

let the ISU keep "popularizing" the sport by inviting feds from India or Indonesia with their single and double jumps, nobody cares, people want brutal competition, drama, fan wars, blood

if your level is not high enough for the league, you go compete at the ISU events or you go to a farm league where you get the chance to qualify for the major league next year if you work hard enough while somebody at the bottom drops out.

speak for yourself.

what an incredibly insulting and malicious comment to make. small feds and countries where figure skating isn't state funded like somewhere as lucky as Russia, or where their only aspiring skater has to train on the sole ice surface in the entire country in a public skate session deserves the same opportunities for development as countries with big national teams. lots of people care about these skaters and want them to be successful and develop the sport in their country, many of whom do not have the support of a big federation. many of them have opened up the sport of figure skating to a larger audience and have inspired many other kids to come after them. they've singlehandedly paved the way for development of the sport in their country and you want to sit here and MAKE FUN of them for that??? absolutely disgusting.

 

[Scott512]

Another things is ISU either Russians are all in or all out. Seeing Russian coaches at euros and worlds was mind boggling when the Russian talent wasnt there. To never give Russian junior a junior at isu worlds but their coaches are at the big events like euros and worlds not a good look to ISU. More than that its confusing. They need to correct this at the summer meetings one way or the other. I hope they do.

 

[DoubleBass]

speak for yourself.

what an incredibly insulting and malicious comment to make. small feds and countries where figure skating isn't state funded like somewhere as lucky as Russia, or where their only aspiring skater has to train on the sole ice surface in the entire country in a public skate session deserves the same opportunities for development as countries with big national teams. lots of people care about these skaters and want them to be successful and develop the sport in their country, many of whom do not have the support of a big federation. many of them have opened up the sport of figure skating to a larger audience and have inspired many other kids to come after them. they've singlehandedly paved the way for development of the sport in their country and you want to sit here and MAKE FUN of them for that??? absolutely disgusting.

I'm not making fun of those athletes, obviously even a double jump or a lvl 2 spin combo are incredible achievements for them considering the small amount of ice time available to them. I'm making fun of the ISU who think it's a good idea to invite those feds into the Union, they think they are making the sport global that way and it's just silly, you ever heard of Kunlun Red Star hockey team? It's full of Canadians, Russians and Americans without a single Chinese player over the years (except for the Chinese that grew up and trained in NA) and no it hasn't made hockey more popular in China in the last 7 years and no one in China cares about it, still.
Just like no one cares about Indian and Indonesian skaters with single and double jumps, except for a few die hard fans who appreciate a good effort, but that's not how you make the sport more popular, on the contrary you're making the sport unwatchable for a casual viewer that way

 

[DoubleBass]

Lakernik recently took a step in this direction. He established the Global Skating Academy. This is an exclusively commercial project. The main goal of the project is to further develop club skating. The newly created club Global Skating Academy (GSA) plans to organize camps for athletes, workshops for coaches and judges, competitions, and any on-line events.

Yeah I've heard about it, I quite frankly don't understand this idea and what it's supposed to achieve, what's a club skating anyways?
But either way, that's not how you do it, someone needs to look at the ratings and the potential to capitalize on them, invest money and create the damn league, you can even make the league fully international (it doesn't matter where a particular athlete is from, only the skill level matters here) sure at first it will mostly be limited to Russian skaters, because of the political situation, but in 5-7 years if it's a lucrative business, producing big stars, attracting money and sponsors, skaters from other countries will start joining one by one, and then you can make broadcasting deals with Eurosport and others, hold various events in other countries etc. You can also sell official merch

 

[Amei]

Another things is ISU either Russians are all in or all out. Seeing Russian coaches at euros and worlds was mind boggling when the Russian talent wasnt there. To never give Russian junior a junior at isu worlds but their coaches are at the big events like euros and worlds not a good look to ISU. More than that its confusing. They need to correct this at the summer meetings one way or the other. I hope they do.

No. At this point the Russian skating federation is banned unfortunately skaters have to compete under a federation representing a country, so since the Russian fed/ country is banned skaters cannot compete. Coaches are paid and employed by skaters, Eteri or Urmanov were not at competitions as "Russian" coaches, they were there as coaches for a skater competing and they just happen to hold a Russian passport (Eteri actuality has several, I've heard she's got Georgian and US citizenship as well). For an organization to try and ban a coach/choreographer because they happen to carry a Russian passport or work with Russian athletes 1 it would be abhorrent and 2 would likely never survive a legal challenge

What next ban Russian born athletes who skate for other countries or athletes that train in Russia?

 

[alexocfp]

I'm not making fun of those athletes, obviously even a double jump or a lvl 2 spin combo are incredible achievements for them considering the small amount of ice time available to them. I'm making fun of the ISU who think it's a good idea to invite those feds into the Union, they think they are making the sport global that way and it's just silly, you ever heard of Kunlun Red Star hockey team? It's full of Canadians, Russians and Americans without a single Chinese player over the years (except for the Chinese that grew up and trained in NA) and no it hasn't made hockey more popular in China in the last 7 years and no one in China cares about it, still.
Just like no one cares about Indian and Indonesian skaters with single and double jumps, except for a few die hard fans who appreciate a good effort, but that's not how you make the sport more popular, on the contrary you're making the sport unwatchable for a casual viewer that way

Kunlun is a disaster. That’s the club you play to pad your stats and increase your team goal difference.

 

[alexocfp]

They need to create a new league, a fully commercial one, because domestic events are by design qualification championships for international competitions, under such system Russian nationals or Russian GP or whatever will never hold the same weight and be as prestigious as international ones like WC or the Olympics, it's just human psychology.
Drop the RusFed, drop the ISU and create a new league, make some changes in order to make the sport more watchable for the new fans and the rules more understandable, split the judging panel (tech and components separately) the demand is there, the money is certainly there, make sure every skater who participates in the new league will get paid enough even if they don't end up in the top 10, the average level will increase real quick, it will be an elite league, let the ISU keep "popularizing" the sport by inviting feds from India or Indonesia with their single and double jumps, nobody cares, people want brutal competition, drama, fan wars, blood etc lol the new Zagitova vs Medvedeva ,imagine if at least top 10 girls are at that level and each one of them has a chance to be on the podium, that'd be insane, that's the only way of nurturing the depth of the Russian ladies figure skating, not the 3 quotas nonsense. The ISU and the RusFed will continue their existence separately, if your level is not high enough for the league, you go compete at the ISU events or you go to a farm league where you get the chance to qualify for the major league next year if you work hard enough while somebody at the bottom drops out.
If the league is successful it will be more prestigious to win the Golden Boot (or whatever the name they'd come up with for the trophy, win it three times call it a Diamond boot lol, so many ideas) than the Olympics, just like it's more prestigious to win the Stanley Cup than the Olympics in hockey. I mean $25k-30k for winning the WC what the hell is that? That's a joke.

Some real good points here.

Sports need rivalries. And sports needs to be a meritocracy.

And yes, every nation should have a shot but there are certain countries that will never get into the sport. And that’s OK. Just like Brazil will never be a cricket powerhouse.

When I was watching the challenger events years back, it was obvious that there were people there that were just there to have fun, and were being funded by daddy or another benefactor. It was obvious they weren’t fit enough or had the skills needed to even be average.

Tennis was smart to start the ITF circuit where the wannabes and those that have money to burn (or other people’s money to burn) can pretend to be tennis players. And also gives them an avenue for 2 other popular activities there: match fixing and using the courts for bikini instagram photo shoots after the inevitable first round loss.

And what is the attendance at those tournaments?

Tennis is the ultimate meritocracy. You get into tournaments based on how well you perform. Doesn’t matter what nation you are from. If a tournament has 24 direct entries and 22 are from the same nation, no one bats an eye.

Like you said, people want to see the best against the best.

 

[Scott512]

No. At this point the Russian skating federation is banned unfortunately skaters have to compete under a federation representing a country, so since the Russian fed/ country is banned skaters cannot compete. Coaches are paid and employed by skaters, Eteri or Urmanov were not at competitions as "Russian" coaches, they were there as coaches for a skater competing and they just happen to hold a Russian passport (Eteri actuality has several, I've heard she's got Georgian and US citizenship as well). For an organization to try and ban a coach/choreographer because they happen to carry a Russian passport or work with Russian athletes 1 it would be abhorrent and 2 would likely never survive a legal challenge

What next ban Russian born athletes who skate for other countries or athletes that train in Russia?

But they were there in Finland and Japan and Russians are banned there whether they are coaches or not they are Russian Citizens first.
It looks like the ISU bent the rules for them. Because early in the season Nastia did not have any of her Russian coaches with her then all of a sudden they started popping up.

But you bring up an interesting point about citizenship and how EG has more than one. Russia should go to Kazakhstan or Armenia or Georgia and since Russian athletes have built Kazakhstan tennis into a world-class program and Russian athletes have built Georgia figure skating into a world-class program I would go to these countries and say we need a temporary dual citizenship for maybe a couple years. I mean if they have to compete as neutral why not do this they won't be russian they won't be kazak they won't be Georgian if they are ANA as it looks like they will be.

Russian skaters should be their own entity and they should forget about the Russian Federation ASAP and that goes for all Russian Sports like my earlier point if they have to compete as neutral why be part of the Russian figure skating Federation for instance?

 

[Amei]

But they were there in Finland and Japan and Russians are banned there whether they are coaches or not they are Russian Citizens first.
It looks like the ISU bent the rules for them. Because early in the season Nastia did not have any of her Russian coaches with her then all of a sudden they started popping up.

My guess it wasn't the ISU bending some rules, earlier in the season there could have been issues with them getting a visa, which isn't something really related to the ISU, there was a male skater who was from Russia that competes for Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan that had to WD from some competitions due to visa issues. Which for fans of Russian figure skaters that's another potential roadblock to them competing internationally if they cannot get a visa to go to a country I don't know if the ISU has any kind of agreements with Feds hosting competitions that penalizes them if their country bans a foreign skater from entry.

But you bring up an interesting point about citizenship and how EG has more than one. Russia should go to Kazakhstan or Armenia or Georgia and since Russian athletes have built Kazakhstan tennis into a world-class program and Russian athletes have built Georgia figure skating into a world-class program I would go to these countries and say we need a temporary dual citizenship for maybe a couple years. I mean if they have to compete as neutral why not do this they won't be russian they won't be kazak they won't be Georgian if they are ANA as it looks like they will be.

I'm not sure that's completely legal for Russia to make some kind of deal to basically loan skaters out to other countries while they are banned either with or without the intention that Russia 'gets them back' once Russia is unbanned. And if there are rumors that they are making those kinds of deals I imagine there would be people that would appeal to the ISU to try and do something to stop it or lengthen the Russian ban. I mean if Adellia Petrosyan or Sofia Murayvea easily get released to skate for Armenia and Kazakhstan (just throwing out national team members and random countries) its going to throw all kinds of red flags up. And then there would be the debate/fall-out of who gets picked to be 'released' to another country.

Russian skaters should be their own entity and they should forget about the Russian Federation ASAP and that goes for all Russian Sports like my earlier point if they have to compete as neutral why be part of the Russian figure skating Federation for instance?

Because the ISU is structured currently based on competing under a country/Federation, the ISU would have to make some kind of exception (if they do it, all we have at this point is recommendations from the IOC) to allow the Russian/Belarussian athletes as a neutral team similar to how they did at the 2021 Worlds (athletes competed for the Figure skating federation of Russia, not 'Russia')

 

[JimR]

Watching the Eteri show it's clear how much Akatieva and Petrosian have grown artistically. Kamila has some what declined artistically as the season has gone on and was somewhat sloppy by her incredibly high standards with the choreography of her FS at the GP final (high point was the Kazan show in November).

But in the demonstration event she was so sharp and explosive with her energy, so I just think her focus has been elsewhere such as the demonstration tournament, recovering her 3A, stabilising her 4T.

But I wonder if she has some kind of injury that makes it difficult to perform some of those intricate movements or the extra size she has now has altered the mechanics.

Watching Shcherbakova perform her SP from last season was kind of a sad reminder of far away she is from ever being that skater again.

Next season will be great with I assume a full domestic season like this year. If Russia can send skaters to ISU events, I think they'll just send one skater to the world championships and possibly Europeans, not bother with GP events. Make some excuse about the political situation, skater safety and who will the ISU be to argue.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Daria Sadkova 3A

 

[AlexBreeze]

Valieva's restored 3A in the show

 

[Scott512]

Valieva's restored 3A in the show

Pretty amazing. And she still has her 4t correct? The Kamster keeping some or most of her ultra jumps while living with puberty is incredible.

As for next season I hope they make her programs a little less complicated. We don't need to see her trying all the Ultras she did at the Olympics.

 

[Scott512]

Watching the Eteri show it's clear how much Akatieva and Petrosian have grown artistically. Kamila has some what declined artistically as the season has gone on and was somewhat sloppy by her incredibly high standards with the choreography of her FS at the GP final (high point was the Kazan show in November).

But in the demonstration event she was so sharp and explosive with her energy, so I just think her focus has been elsewhere such as the demonstration tournament, recovering her 3A, stabilising her 4T.

But I wonder if she has some kind of injury that makes it difficult to perform some of those intricate movements or the extra size she has now has altered the mechanics.

Watching Shcherbakova perform her SP from last season was kind of a sad reminder of far away she is from ever being that skater again.

Next season will be great with I assume a full domestic season like this year. If Russia can send skaters to ISU events, I think they'll just send one skater to the world championships and possibly Europeans, not bother with GP events. Make some excuse about the political situation, skater safety and who will the ISU be to argue.

Thanks for the detailed report. But I would cut Anna some major slack because she has not competed in almost 14 months and has been doing shows for a year other than when she had major knee surgery last August. I hope we get to see her compete again but it will take time and there's a good chance she won't. Has there ever been a lady skater to return to competition at a very high level who had major knee surgery?

 

[Scott512]

My guess it wasn't the ISU bending some rules, earlier in the season there could have been issues with them getting a visa, which isn't something really related to the ISU, there was a male skater who was from Russia that competes for Kazakhstan or Azerbaijan that had to WD from some competitions due to visa issues. Which for fans of Russian figure skaters that's another potential roadblock to them competing internationally if they cannot get a visa to go to a country I don't know if the ISU has any kind of agreements with Feds hosting competitions that penalizes them if their country bans a foreign skater from entry.



I'm not sure that's completely legal for Russia to make some kind of deal to basically loan skaters out to other countries while they are banned either with or without the intention that Russia 'gets them back' once Russia is unbanned. And if there are rumors that they are making those kinds of deals I imagine there would be people that would appeal to the ISU to try and do something to stop it or lengthen the Russian ban. I mean if Adellia Petrosyan or Sofia Murayvea easily get released to skate for Armenia and Kazakhstan (just throwing out national team members and random countries) its going to throw all kinds of red flags up. And then there would be the debate/fall-out of who gets picked to be 'released' to another country.



Because the ISU is structured currently based on competing under a country/Federation, the ISU would have to make some kind of exception (if they do it, all we have at this point is recommendations from the IOC) to allow the Russian/Belarussian athletes as a neutral team similar to how they did at the 2021 Worlds (athletes competed for the Figure skating federation of Russia, not 'Russia')

You make an interesting point about the Visas and about whether the ISU might penalize an event for not accepting a skater from a foreign country. I would.

Anastasia as you know lives and trains in Russia still but represents Georgia and she was able to travel okay to various countries this season. If she can do it others should be able to do it as well

There are so many uncertainties about what's going on and the ISU says absolutely nothing which of course leads us and others to speculate.

You also mentioned the ioc recommendation to let athletes from Russia and Belarus compete as neutral athletes. That could open the door to the ISU in some form but that remains to be seen. There are lots of uncertainties in this.

As for the skaters I wish that a healthy off season but it looks like many of them are going to be super busy doing shows yet again. I can only hope they are getting paid some serious money.