2022 Olympics: Men's Short Program

[Arigato]

I have never known Yuzu to be other than a gentlemen and a good "loser" even when he ended up without a gold medal. Do you want him to lie about what he perceives caused his problem? He might be wrong, but I do think he sincerely believes what he is saying.

If he does a good 4ax how many points will he get for that element?

Base value = 12.5 + GOE
Low reward to deter injury is my guess.

He's not doing any of this for points.

 

[reneerose]

They are soft, Bing Dwen Dwen is a lovable Panda in a magical suit of ice. In toy form the ice is clear plastic, but you can take him out of it.

He also has a love heart on his left paw awww.

View attachment 4938
You can see the "ice suits" in a pile on the left side of the photo. And one soft Bing Dwen Dwen about to get suited up.

( I'm kinda of obsessed with Bing Dwen Dwen so I've been researching.)

Bing Dwen Dwen is cute. Kinda like a Panda Buzz Light Year with the encasement in ice. Saw recent photos of the bigger one walking around the Events trying to get through doors LOL. Watched Nathan's short again BTW, so glad he went back to the La Boheme. Need to rewatch Keegan's too.

 

[NanaPat]

It's pretty clear to the judges what constitutes a jump attempt. In fact Hanyu did do a jump, it was just a single.

Pairs can have the same issue with a lift that barely gets started. In a pairs lift, once the man's hands start up, he has to continue lifting his partner. He can hesitate, but he can't go down until the lift is all the way up. At the GPF in Vancouver, Zobiiako/Enbert started a lift, didn't get very far at all, then he set her down, they skated a couple of strokes, and then they did the lift. They didn't get credit for it. Even though you might say the aborted lift was part of the choreography, it wasn't (ie, they'd never done it before!). In fact, a pair would be foolish to put one of those little lift-ette things just before a lift, as the judges could easily count it as a lift attempt and invalidate the actual lift.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Oh for the most part I totally agree with you, and it wasn't the best example I could think of, but I was very tired when I wrote. I just really meant to say that there ARE moments in high level competitions, both athletic and otherwise, where there is this burst of inspiration and one performs at a level never reached before. Doesn't happen often, but when it does it's magic.

And I for one would love Hanyu to have a bit of that magic with the 4A here.

That would be Called movie magic

You know, when the character tries to do something for a while and keeps failing,
but then in the end when it matters most (and probably due to love or shit like that)
he\she miraculously makes it happen.

 

[yume]

I think what Maribelle asks is what constitutes a jump attempt. Is it strictly when both feet are off the ice? Is there a situation where a skater can mask a pop as if it were a part of choreographic "hop" and make another attempt, time permitting?

I remember Elena Radionova falling on the entry of her 3lo at cup of China. She hadn't started to get get off ice. She was just entering the jump with the typical X posture. TP counted it as a jump attempt. I guess that even if both feet are on ice but it's obvious that it's a jump entry, it's counted as a jump attempt.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Regarding what @Icey said about Yuzu's explanation for the pop, Scott H and Brian B, on the Olympic Ice show thought that either there was a problem on the ice which possibly led to Yuzu's blade getting caught, or else the blade edge slightly moved or slipped sideways for some reason (which could have been due to anything, including ice residue, not necessarily a divot). It happens so fast, and it's not something that we as viewers can detect. Brian said that Yuzu looked down on the ice after the pop very quickly (probably a reaction to trying to see whatever it was that caused the problem on takeoff).

 

[Skater Boy]

Well regardless of why Hanyu missed his quad sal it doesn't matter. Nathan is convincingly in first. He is a confident. He is a machine. the judges will reward him good pcs even if he messes up and even if he doesn't deserve it. I understan he did jump better than usual but we shouldnot whine about the Goes of the Russian ladies when we see the goes of Nathan not to mention his generous pcs. I am satisfied with any of the top 3 and Yuzuru being on the podium. I just don't think you can pick otherwise between the bronze medal hopefuls if people make mistakes - Jason, Moris, Cha, Keegan, Daniel, Russian men of the day, Its almost unfair fr one of them to get an individual medal. There is just a bunch of them who rasonably could o it.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Well regardless of why Hanyu missed his quad sal it doesn't matter. Nathan is convincingly in first. He is a confident. He is a machine. the judges will reward him good pcs even if he messes up and even if he doesn't deserve it. I understan he did jump better than usual but we shouldnot whine about the Goes of the Russian ladies when we see the goes of Nathan not to mention his generous pcs.

I think people can "whine" about both, two wrongs don't make a right
Also, what were the complaints people had as far as GOEs?

 

[surimi]

two big differences in my book :
Patrick skated last in the final flight and the ice was clearly melted by then. It was a large problem.
Yuzuru : i believe he got unlucky but the ice was fine enough for him to nail the rest of his program and for the other skaters to do so as well.

Boston : the entire event was over. No matter what is said, results are punched in.
Beijing : this happening after the SP distracts from the other skaters.

There should be more posts about Nathan, Yuma, Shoma, Jason, and others and less about a popped jump.

The root of the issue still remains that there was something off with the ice, which according to either skater's words, caused a jump mishap. I have no interest in comparing which of the two was more in the right, and whose ice was worse. I have no reason not to believe either skater. The issue I have is all the folk out here with their pitchforks judging a skater's character, and if he's making excuses or not. Like anyone knows but the skater himself. And here I thought character dragging was against GS rules anyway.
Hanyu is hardly at fault for this happening in the SP and not the FS, not sure why you seem to be suggesting that he is distracting public attention from other skaters' results. He got a question, he answered it. Insinuating that he somehow deliberately robs other skaters of deserved attention is ludicrous. It's the drama around it that diverts attention, and people who attack his character over a trifle like that, not Hanyu himself, are the main reason the drama even exists.

 

[4everchan]

The root of the issue still remains that there was something off with the ice, which according to either skater's words, caused a jump mishap. I have no interest in comparing which of the two was more in the right, and whose ice was worse. I have no reason not to believe either skater. The issue I have is all the folk out here with their pitchforks judging a skater's character, and if he's making excuses or not. Like anyone knows but the skater himself. And here I thought character dragging was against GS rules anyway.
Hanyu is hardly at fault for this happening in the SP and not the FS, not sure why you seem to be suggesting that he is distracting public attention from other skaters' results. He got a question, he answered it. Insinuating that he somehow deliberately robs other skaters of deserved attention is ludicrous. It's the drama around it that diverts attention, and people who attack his character over a trifle like that, not Hanyu himself, are the main reason the drama even exists.

I understand your point and I agree with some of it but you got the wrong guy here. I am not one of the people who have said Hanyu used it as an excuse or anything. I have said simply that other skaters have mentioned ice problems before and were heavily bashed by people, and in this case, I find it too bad that the sympathy and/or the bashing received derailed the attention from other fabulous performances. I have not said that Hanyu did that hismelf . I have also said that I believed that with a popped jump, Yuzuru received a generous score. Those are my opinions, which I stand for. That's pretty much all I have said about this. I am done with this topic and looking forward to the FP.

 

[surimi]

I understand your point and I agree with some of it but you got the wrong guy here. I am not one of the people who have said Hanyu used it as an excuse or anything. I have said simply that other skaters have mentioned ice problems before and were heavily bashed by people, and in this case, I find it too bad that the sympathy and/or the bashing received derailed the attention from other fabulous performances. I have not said that Hanyu did that hismelf . I have also said that I believed that with a popped jump, Yuzuru received a generous score. Those are my opinions, which I stand for. That's pretty much all I have said about this. I am done with this topic and looking forward to the FP.

Well, in the post I reacted to, you were only calling out the overwhelming sympathy part. That is what I commented on, to point out that both parties are the problem here as the flames always feed the fire. A huge fanbase means many people ready to contest opinions accusing their favorite of faking.
But whatever. Like you, I am done with this topic, and off to more interesting ones

 

[Icey]

Is there a slo mo of Yuzu's jump attempt?

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Any shots right before the jump? I know that would be harder to get, but pointing to a divot after the fact is meaningless. It could have been a much smaller divot, and his jump made it bigger, or he caused the divot.

Not many people take pictures of the ice or only film the feet of a skater. There were a lot of marks in this particular corner before (visible during Deniss' 3Lz+2T and Andrei's StSq), but it's hard to tell which of the marks was at the same spot Yuzuru attempted his 4S at. (There were some marks that did look suspicious, as in they looked more like singular divots than curves - but due to different camera angles, zoom and video quality, I cannot say with certainty 1) that they were holes 2) that they were at the exact spot of the jump attempt).

However, what I am rather sure of, is that this hole wasn't caused by an edge jump and very likely not by this particular jump attempt.

(For ease of explanation, I'm reposting this picture): Above and below the divot you can see the entry curve. The hole is almost star-shaped and has significant expansion in the direction perpendicular to the direction of the curve. Particularly the elongated expansion towards the left would not exist if this jump had caused the whole divot.

Furthermore, more generally speaking, edge jumps are much less likely to cause divots from their take-off (particularly divots of this shape) due to the force used to generate spring and rotation being spread on the full length of the blade.
Toe jumps, on the other hand, concentrate all of their force onto a very small part of the blade, the toe-pick. The force per area ratio is much higher, making it more likely for a toe jump to cause an actual divot. (And that is without taking into account that a good number of skaters use more force for their toe jumps than for their edge jumps).
(The higher force/weight per area ratio is also the reason why for example ice picks exist - the amount of force needed to break the ice is much lower if it is concentrated onto a very small area).

Whether it's bigger or not is hard to tell without being able to compare it to before, most likely some of the sidewards expansion and a part of the depth would be enlarged? (The force transfer in Salchows from blade to ice is more sideways-down than straight-down like with toe jumps)

 

[karne]

I have a question about Hanyu's short program. I was watching the replay and the popped jump actually looked like it could have been part of the dance routine. I was wondering why he couldn't have put in that quad jump somewhere else in the program. The skaters seem to be able to do that in the long program if they miss a jump, sometimes they put it in later. I am guessing that in the short program there may not be any time to add in a jump later, but just thought I'd ask if anyone knows what the rules are.

Where is this coming from? I have now seen this multiple times all over the internet, Hanyu fans trying to claim it could be considered choreography. Is this another one of those ridiculously bad tiktok takes? Some trend on Twitter?

Hanyu clearly set up for a Salchow, moved onto the takeoff edge for a Salchow, took off for a Salchow, and clearly rotated for a single Salchow. No judge worth their salt could possibly mistake that for choreography, and no technical panel worth their salt would call it as anything other than a 1S*.

You have three jumping passes in the short program - no more, no less. Because the 1S* took up a jumping box, he could not substitute it in without invalidating another required jump. Two invalid jumping passes would have sunk him much lower than 95.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

I think what Maribelle asks is what constitutes a jump attempt. Is it strictly when both feet are off the ice? Is there a situation where a skater can mask a pop as if it were a part of choreographic "hop" and make another attempt, time permitting?

For a jump to be viewed as executed or started, a skater has to go through the motions of the takeoff. There have been instances where skaters have done the three-turns for an entry into a 3F, aborted and done another set of turns and then picked in, but the element was marked as F* because they did the setup. There was a clear sal setup from Yuzu, so no, he could not have just added it in later. He would have scored the exact same if that happened because he would have a box taken up by the S*.

 

[viennaskater]

Where is this coming from? I have now seen this multiple times all over the internet, Hanyu fans trying to claim it could be considered choreography. Is this another one of those ridiculously bad tiktok takes? Some trend on Twitter?

This is so laughable! People who think that cannot be capable of understanding the required elements of figure skating! If you can't understand it, how can you be a Hanyu fan?

 

[viennaskater]

Actually - could Hanyu have just stuck the jump in a bit later in the programme? Then he could have been home and dry!

 

[DancingCactus]

There is a delayed Axel in the step sequence right? Maybe they saw that and thought it looked similar to a popped jump, ergo the conlusion that he could have played the Salchow off as an artistic choice.

 

[Maribelle]

Where is this coming from? I have now seen this multiple times all over the internet, Hanyu fans trying to claim it could be considered choreography. Is this another one of those ridiculously bad tiktok takes? Some trend on Twitter?

Hanyu clearly set up for a Salchow, moved onto the takeoff edge for a Salchow, took off for a Salchow, and clearly rotated for a single Salchow. No judge worth their salt could possibly mistake that for choreography, and no technical panel worth their salt would call it as anything other than a 1S*.

You have three jumping passes in the short program - no more, no less. Because the 1S* took up a jumping box, he could not substitute it in without invalidating another required jump. Two invalid jumping passes would have sunk him much lower than 95.

I was just curious, I don't follow social media. I was just wondering if it was a possibility in the short program. Thanks for your explanation.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I was just curious, I don't follow social media. I was just wondering if it was a possibility in the short program. Thanks for your explanation.

He could have done the 4S again but it would have to have replaced the 4T which wouldn’t have really made sense given the choreography and the payoff of a 4S over a 4T isn’t worth much. But as others mentioned, it used up a jumping pass. And this wasn’t even a case of skidding and not even doing a jump, he still did a single salchow which would have got no points in the SP. If he popped like that in the FS he would get around half a point for it.