2022 Olympics Team Event Day1: Pairs Short Program

[Cilla70]

That is crazy to me. I realize Japan isn't far away, but I would think you would want even a small amount of jet lag to occur far away from the event.

Everyone seems to be skating well though so maybe it won't be an issue. This could be one of the Olympics with the cleanest skating ever at this rate (I realize it is very early).

I think most of the competitors have been here about a week.

 

[SNAKSuyun]

I am 100% on team Sui/Han for the gold. I prefer their programs, their overall performance and just sentiment considering their history and the fact that this is a home games for them.

M/G were rock solid though. I felt no doubt watching their technical elements and flow.

It's always a bit strange to me how I can appreciate M/G's consistency but still feel like they're a bit "scrappy." Like, you can visibly see how their twists/throws have great height and distance, etc., but somehow e.g. T/M's twists still feel more smooth and S/H's throws more secure. I wonder if it's a bit similar to e.g. Kaori and Daleman's big jumps...

 

[yctomi]

cleanest skating? have you watched the first flight of men? it was a disaster

just checking, best two events : wouldn't that be 10 points -9 points etc? It makes no sense to me at least to use actual event points as men score higher than pairs etc

Sorry I misread the rules. The first tiebreak is to look at the team scores from the best two events and if that's still a tie they'll look at the actual scores from segments.
China their two best events are pairs and dance: 10 + 6 = 16
Georgia's two best events are men and ladies: 7 + 7 = 14
Canada's two best events are dance and pairs/ladies: 7 + 6 = 13
So Madeline needs to place higher than Gubanova to have a chance.

 

[Mista Ekko]

---

 

[4everchan]

Sorry I misread the rules. The first tiebreak is to look at the team scores from the best two events and if that's still a tie they'll look at the actual scores from segments.
China their two best events are pairs and dance: 10 + 6 = 16
Georgia's two best events are men and ladies: 7 + 7 = 14
Canada's two best events are dance and pairs/ladies: 7 + 6 = 13
So Madeline needs to place higher than Gubanova to have a chance.

yes.. Madeline needs to beat Gubanova. Thanks for the analysis
Realistically right now, we can say that China did score 10+6= 16
Canada and Georgia have 7 + ?
I see that Gubanova comes with some expectation of doing very well but Madeline is a good SP skater, so I believe it can happen. Will it? We will see soon enough.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

I don't see why Madi couldnt beat Gubanova. Gubanova is kind of overrated because she is a Russian girl who changed countries and may have had some decent results in the past. But her programs are empty. Her spins are not that impressive. People keep saying she is a threat to the American woman but I feel like Karen is so much better in almost every aspect that she would need to make significant mistakes to lose to her (which is certainly possible but she should still win if clean even with one call IMO) .

The only reason I had Madi below Gubanova in my predictions is because I thought Madi might might make a little error. If she does Gubanova will take it. But Madi has a chance.

Russia, USA, Japan all in 70+ range. Gubanova, Schizas, Shabotova are all in the mid to high 60s. Everyone else 50s-lower 60s at best.

 

[flanker]

And gosh, the Czech TV server fell down during the replaying the pairs competition just before the chinese and russian pair. Everybody enjoy the olympics!

 

[4everchan]

I don't see why Madi couldnt beat Gubanova. Gubanova is kind of overrated because she is a Russian girl who changed countries and may have had some decent results in the past. But her programs are empty. Her spins are not that impressive. People keep saying she is a threat to the American woman but I feel like Karen is so much better in almost every aspect that she would need to make significant mistakes to lose to her (which is certainly possible but she should still win if clean even with one call IMO) .

The only reason I had Madi below Gubanova in my predictions is because I thought Madi might might make a little error. If she does Gubanova will take it. But Madi has a chance.

Russia, USA, Japan all in 70+ range. Gubanova, Schizas, Shabotova are all in the mid to high 60s. Everyone else 50s-lower 60s at best.

all of the skaters representing Georgia were actually born and I believe, still train in Russia. I am not saying it's a problem... but I find it a bit much when some posters are saying : let's cheer for the small feds

 

[Wafflecakes]

It's always a bit strange to me how I can appreciate M/G's consistency but still feel like they're a bit "scrappy." Like, you can visibly see how their twists/throws have great height and distance, etc., but somehow e.g. T/M's twists still feel more smooth and S/H's throws more secure. I wonder if it's a bit similar to e.g. Kaori and Daleman's big jumps...

I had the opposite impression.

Though I tend to have that in general. When I want a team to do well I start to see every flaw in what they do.

Then with the people I am not rooting for/the biggest threat to my faves I only see their strengths.

So I always feel like the skaters I am rooting for are on the verge of defeat. Makes watching sports in general quite stressful.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Well of course you didn´t see it. Last worlds, you didn´t see any underrotations from Karen Chen as well. You only see, what you want to see.

Another strawman attempt. Anastasia had many problems in her skating skills this performance. You may not like hearing that, but it happened, and I'll make gifs of every single one if you want to go down that road. It's not me who isn't seeing things properly. All of those floppy edges don't deserve the scores that were given.

Karen Chen did not have any underrotations greater than 1/4 at worlds. I posted exact measurements of her takeoffs and landings. Go ahead and try to refute the actual evidence and math if you disagree. Show with an angle measurement program (Adobe aftereffects has an easy to use one) that the degree is greater than 90 on those jumps. Instead of just "seeing what you want to see".

 

[QuadThrow]

I do not know if somebody mentioned it before.

The Chinese federation should change its judge. She put M/G in first.

https://skatingscores.com/2122/olyt/sr/pairs/short/

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Commenters are discussing events in the wrong threads. Or going into overall result standing talk in individual discipline threads, which gets confusing. There should be a separate, designated thread for standings discussion as the team event continues.

I am bringing over to the appropriate thread the below comment with my reply. It didn't belong in the RD team event thread.

The Japanese pair team were way better than Alexa and Brandon!

Sui/Han have to be perfect to beat M/G in the pairs event. It’s so close.

You probably think that about Miura/Kihara because you like Miura/Kihara, and you're excited for their rise, and excited for Japanese federation finally having a good pairs team. In actuality, M/K and Alexa/Brandon (K/F) are in a similar ballpark in terms of skills, with Alexa/Brandon having veteran experience with other partners and being a very good team together right off the bat. Alexa/Brandon deserve as much respect as Miura/Kihara. Please stop with dissing U.S. pairs teams.

As far as the judging, there's practically nothing separhttps://results.isu.org/results/season2122/owg2022/SEG013.htmating Alexa/Brandon and Miura/Kihara. If you look at the scoring results, PCS were manipulated as usual, with e.g., M/K being slight percentage points ahead of Alexa/Brandon in every single PCS category, which is clearly range-based, manipulated scoring. It's unrealistic to believe that M/K are slight percentage points better than Alexa/ Brandon in every single PCS category That's not true.
https://results.isu.org/results/season2122/owg2022/SEG013.htm pairs results sp

The main results index page:

XXIV Olympic Winter Games 2022

Event results for XXIV Olympic Winter Games 2022

results.isu.org

Neither is it true that Mishina/Galliamov deserve such a high PCS score that is slight percentage points lower than Sui/Han's PCS score. Sui/Han are veterans with great, dynamic appeal. M/G have more work to do to expand their aesthetic range. S/H may have looked vulnerable technically in recent years, but they were spot-on in their sp in this team event. Still, M/G might deserve to be percentage points ahead in at least a couple of PCS categories. But overall, M/G's PCS should not be on a par with S/H in every category. Plus, Miura came down noticeably on Kihara's shoulder in their twist dismount, so maybe that's why they lost slightly on the technical score to Ash/Timothy.

 

[yctomi]

Commenters are discussing events in the wrong threads. Or going into overall result standing talk in individual discipline threads, which gets confusing. There should be a separate, designated thread for standings discussion as the team event continues.

I am bringing over to the appropriate thread the below comment with my reply. It didn't belong in the RD team event thread.



You probably think that about Miura/Kihara because you like Miura/Kihara, and you're excited for their rise, and excited for Japanese federation finally having a good pairs team. In actuality, M/K and Alexa/Brandon (K/F) are in a similar ballpark in terms of skills, with Alexa/Brandon having veteran experience with other partners and being a very good team together right off the bat. Alexa/Brandon deserve as much respect as Miura/Kihara. Please stop with dissing U.S. pairs teams.

As far as the judging, there's practically nothing separhttps://results.isu.org/results/season2122/owg2022/SEG013.htmating Alexa/Brandon and Miura/Kihara. If you look at the scoring results, PCS were manipulated as usual, with e.g., M/K being slight percentage points ahead of Alexa/Brandon in every single PCS category, which is clearly range-based, manipulated scoring. It's unrealistic to believe that M/K are slight percentage points better than Alexa/ Brandon in every single PCS category That's not true.
https://results.isu.org/results/season2122/owg2022/SEG013.htm pairs results sp

The main results index page:

XXIV Olympic Winter Games 2022

Event results for XXIV Olympic Winter Games 2022

results.isu.org

Neither is it true that Mishina/Galliamov deserve such a high PCS score that is slight percentage points lower than Sui/Han's PCS score. Sui/Han are veterans with great, dynamic appeal. M/G have more work to do to expand their aesthetic range. S/H may have looked vulnerable technically in recent years, but they were spot-on in their sp in this team event. Still, M/G might deserve to be percentage points ahead in at least a couple of PCS categories. But overall, M/G's PCS should not be on a par with S/H in every category. Plus, Miura came down noticeably on Kihara's shoulder in their twist dismount, so maybe that's why they lost slightly on the technical score to Ash/Timothy.

MG's pcs score is atrocious. It's always Russian skaters that could come out with strong technical elements and some kind of consistency and the judges will just go with them on their pcs scores regardless of their actual skating skills and performance quality. I won't be surprised if Boikova and Kozlovski would also be getting SH's pcs scores if they remained somewhat consistent throughout this cycle. Skates from other countries always need to wait until they become somewhat a 'veteran' to get similar pcs.

 

[Mista Ekko]

I do not know if somebody mentioned it before.

The Chinese federation should change its judge. She put M/G in first.

https://skatingscores.com/2122/olyt/sr/pairs/short/

It was mentioned, But only you suggested thus far that something like that
should warrant replacing someone

 

[readernick]

I do not know if somebody mentioned it before.

The Chinese federation should change its judge. She put M/G in first.

https://skatingscores.com/2122/olyt/sr/pairs/short/

She's waiting for the individual events to be biased China doesn't really have a chance to medal here. I don't think M/ G are bad PCS skaters at all. However, they certainly aren't at the same level as Sui/ Han or T/M but that's to be expected given their age. It is their consistency which has allowed them to win. I don't think this is correct but it isn't just Russian skaters who benefit from this. Nathan Chen does, too. I like Nathan but I don't think he deserved his PCS lead over Shoma today, yet his consistency leads the judges to give him the highest PCS.

 

[Mista Ekko]

MG's pcs score is atrocious. It's always Russian skaters that could come out with strong technical elements and some kind of consistency and the judges will just go with them on their pcs scores regardless of their actual skating skills and performance quality. I won't be surprised if Boikova and Kozlovski would also be getting SH's pcs scores if they remained somewhat consistent throughout this cycle. Skates from other countries always need to wait until they become somewhat a 'veteran' to get similar pcs.

They probably should be lower, But it's also not uncommon in this sport to give the current World Champion\s
the PCS to match that, And even though they're not Sui\Han good (almost no one ever was) they are very strong in many ways.

 

[yctomi]

They probably should be lower, But it's also not uncommon in this sport to give the current World Champion\s
the PCS to match that, And even though they're not Sui\Han good (almost no one ever was) they are very strong in many ways.

Well I won't be surprised if Sui and Han were Russians they will create a gap just like Volosozhar and Trankov in Sochi where their pcs is like high 38s and Savchenko and Szolkowy is around 35-36 and everyone else can't even get 34. MG is a very strong pair and their program is more difficult than Sui and Han's, but their pcs definitely benefited from their nationality and the support from the judges. In a field like this it will create an unfair advantage to their competition both psychologically and strategically.

 

[vorravorra]

Once again show me ONE where I "threw dirt" on an individual athlete from ROC. I'll wait.

My comment was specifically about why I can't root for them in the team event. It is you who assumes that that means I am anti every single individual ROC athlete.

They are in a rough spot. Russia isn't a place where you can easily criticize your country, peers, or federation without repercussions. I am sympathetic to that. That said, the country benefits from the team event more than the individual skaters.... and the country has shown that it is willing to organize systemic cheating, deny to cover up despite overwhelming evidence, and gaslight by pretending everyone else does it as well with no evidence. I can't ever root for a country like that to win a team event.

Here you are wrong. The skaters benefit as much from the team medal as from an individual one. An individual medal has more prestige but the perks are exactly the same.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Here you are wrong. The skaters benefit as much from the team medal as from an individual one. An individual medal has more prestige but the perks are exactly the same.

That is fair and I don't begrudge the individual athletes.

I just straight up cannot endorse and root for the federation on a personal level. In my mind the lack of meaningful consequences for ROC (and even worse their abject refusal to accept responsibility) just means that it will happen again and again and again until the consequences outweigh the potential benefits... and that will never happen if people just use the "its not the athlete's fault" as the default excuse for lack of accountability for a federation.

 

[vorravorra]

That is fair and I don't begrudge the individual athletes.

I just straight up cannot endorse and root for the federation on a personal level. In my mind the lack of meaningful consequences for ROC (and even worse their abject refusal to accept responsibility) just means that it will happen again and again and again until the consequences outweigh the potential benefits... and that will never happen if people just use the "its not the athlete's fault" as the default excuse for lack of accountability for a federation.

But what does the Federation have to do with it? The doping scandal didn't concern figure skating.