2023-24 Grand Prix Final Senior Rhythm Dance | Page 9 | Golden Skate

2023-24 Grand Prix Final Senior Rhythm Dance

el henry

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Ben Agosto believes that Madi and Evan were the clear winners, and the scores were deserved, I don't think he is *that* much of homer (after all, his partner was Canadian born. ;) )

 

icewhite

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Ben Agosto believes that Madi and Evan were the clear winners, and the scores were deserved, I don't think he is *that* much of homer (after all, his partner was Canadian born. ;) )



If the programs were judged first and foremost I would agree with him. But as far as I know it's still the skaters and their skating, even if programs do have a heavy influence.
 

el henry

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If the programs were judged first and foremost I would agree with him. But as far as I know it's still the skaters and their skating, even if programs do have a heavy influence.

Well, as far as I can tell, Ben is evaluating the skaters, although his Twitter feed is generally positive about everyone, he does point out issues.

I just posted to show that people (skaters) can have different opinions, I do not feel strongly one way or the other.
 

icewhite

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Well, as far as I can tell, Ben is evaluating the skaters, although his Twitter feed is generally positive about everyone, he does point out issues.

I just posted to show that people (skaters) can have different opinions, I do not feel strongly one way or the other.

Well, it's always nice to say "we can all have different opinions". And often that's correct. But I really want things to be fair. How nice is it to be constantly underscored or not get the medal you would deserve on sportive merit because others are more popular, better looking, have better fed support, are longer in the game etc.?
There are many cases where I would not dare to say who was really better. Or I dare to say it but I'm aware that my judgement may be clouded from personal preference. But then there are the cases where I simply don't get it, where what I see and understand does not align with the scores. I just have not yet gotten an explanation why Chock/Bates are getting the scores they do these last years. Someone explain it to me like I'm 5 year old, and I will stop complaining.
 

labgoat

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I will try...this I what I see on the scoresheet as the main differences
C/B MiStW3/MiStM4 8.58 GOE 4.63 13.21 pts + RoLi4 ranked 1st 5.45 GOE 2.06 7.51 pts
G/F MiStW3/MiStM3 8.20 GOE 3.73 11.93 pts + SlLi4 ranked 4th 5.45 GOE 1.71 7.16 pts
G/P MiStW3/MiStM2* 7.83 GOE 4.03 11.86 pts + RoLi4 ranked 3rd 5.45 GOE 1.78 7.23 pts
Fear & Gibson had second best lift RoLi4 ranked 2nd 5.45 GOE 1.92 7.37 pts

Chock & Bates ranked first on every element
*Mark mentions Paul's FI counter on replay (just before the first sliding move) as level 2

Details from above are found here
 
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el henry

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Well, it's always nice to say "we can all have different opinions". And often that's correct. But I really want things to be fair. How nice is it to be constantly underscored or not get the medal you would deserve on sportive merit because others are more popular, better looking, have better fed support, are longer in the game etc.?
There are many cases where I would not dare to say who was really better. Or I dare to say it but I'm aware that my judgement may be clouded from personal preference. But then there are the cases where I simply don't get it, where what I see and understand does not align with the scores. I just have not yet gotten an explanation why Chock/Bates are getting the scores they do these last years. Someone explain it to me like I'm 5 year old, and I will stop complaining.

If Olympic silver medalist Ben Agosto's opinion isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what I could say. :)

I don't find judging in skating to be any more problematic, wrong, or incorrect than refereeing in any other sports, or at least the sports I follow. I certainly don't think Madi and Evan are medaling because they are more popular, good looking, or have better fed support. Someone will need to give me proof (not "I don't understand it so those are the only explanations I can come up with" but *proof*) that these are the the reasons.

I do think longevity is a factor, but many of the teams at this comp have been at it for quite some time.
 

labgoat

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4everchan

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If Olympic silver medalist Ben Agosto's opinion isn't good enough for you, then I don't know what I could say. :)
I bet there are other former Olympians who would have a different opinion. So singling his opinion only says very little. Remember when Petri Kokko said that Virtue-Moir's Finnstep was the best at Sochi... if anyone should know about the Finnstep, it's him... but then, the judges said no :)
I don't find judging in skating to be any more problematic, wrong, or incorrect than refereeing in any other sports, or at least the sports I follow.
I do. I watch a lot of judged sports. I never get quite the same sort of ill-feeling I sometimes get about judging in figure skating when watching other judged sports. Never. Maybe it's because I love figure skating too much ;)
I certainly don't think Madi and Evan are medaling because they are more popular, good looking, or have better fed support. Someone will need to give me proof (not "I don't understand it so those are the only explanations I can come up with" but *proof*) that the are the the reasons.
These "reasons" come out when things are observed on the ice that do not equate with first place or much higher scores than teams who seem to be better... People start wondering, WHY? And they have to come up with reasons.
I do think longevity is a factor, but many of the teams at this comp have been at it for quite some time
I think in this case it's the reigning world champion bonus at play. Of course, some teams had mistakes but if you look at the results from the RD, it's copy paste from last worlds.
 
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CaroLiza_fan

EZETTIE LATUASV IVAKMHA
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I was wrong it is Iida Karhunen NOT Inga

No problem. With the amount of skating we have been watching, it is inevitable that we get them mixed up at some stage!

By the way, would you believe that Iida is pretty much a year and 3 weeks older than Inga? I'd have thought it would be the other way around!

CaroLiza_fan
 

labgoat

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No problem. With the amount of skating we have been watching, it is inevitable that we get them mixed up at some stage!

By the way, would you believe that Iida is pretty much a year and 3 weeks older than Inga? I'd have thought it would be the other way around!

CaroLiza_fan
Wow I would've thought the reverse. All I know is that she is adorable and I will get her name right from now on. Inga is also wonderful and charming.
 

el henry

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I bet there are other former Olympians who would have a different opinion. So singling his opinion only says very little. Remember when Petri Kokko said that Virtue-Moir's Finnstep was the best at the Sochi... if anyone should know about the Finnstep, it's him... but then, the judges said no :)

I do. I watch a lot of judged sports. I never get quite the same sort of ill-feeling I sometimes get about judging in figure skating. Never. Maybe it's because I love figure skating too much ;)

These "reasons" come out when things are observed on the ice that do not equate with first place or much higher scores than team who seem to be better... People start wondering, WHY? And they have to come up with reasons.

I think in this case it's the reigning world champion bonus at play. Of course, some teams had mistakes but if you look at the results from the RD, it's copy paste from last worlds.

I'm not saying anyone should accept Ben's word for it. Just that it is not so obvious to the naked eye, everyone on the street and in the rink, and your little cousin :) that Madi and Evan were overscored.

I am also not saying I agree with all judging. I think my complaints about the quad bonus in PCS (not relevant here obviously) have been well documented. I can "wuzrob" with the best of them. ;) I guess I find fed support to be a particularly weak argument, given feds have internal favorites that vary. I do think there are coaching "bonuses", so maybe an IAM bonus? Then again, many of the coaching bonuses are related to, ahem, good coaching and I do admire IAM's approach and coaching philosophy.

I don't watch any other judged sports with any regularity, so I can't say there.
 

labgoat

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@4everchan is there any Canadian commentary other than the World feed. I tried the CBC feed but it is Ted & Mark again. I tried the Peacock feed and again Ted & Mark. I am interested in someone other views.
 

4everchan

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@4everchan is there any Canadian commentary other than the World feed. I tried the CBC feed but it is Ted & Mark again. I tried the Peacock feed and again Ted & Mark. I am interested in someone other views.
If you speak French. https://ici.radio-canada.ca/sports/...les-court-femmes-danse-rythmique?isAutoPlay=1
I haven't yet watched the French. The commentator is a pairs specialist but he is not as bad as some others when it comes to dance.
The colour commentator used to be an artistic swimmer.
 
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