2023-24 Junior Grand Prix Final Pairs Free Skate

[Jumping_Bean]

Fair enough. If the skaters are also fine with that.. They have to add a lift so probably modify the program... but that's probably already been done.

They already had their first Senior competition (Warsaw Cup), and have the minimums for Worlds & Euros. They're definitely planning on doing all three championships this season.

 

[Mariott]

First time I see the Georgian lady smile

Her name is Mariam Giorgobiani Not the most common name among Georgians, by the way, I thought her name was Manana for a long time, that name is more popular.

 

[4everchan]

They already had their first Senior competition (Warsaw Cup), and have the minimums for Worlds & Euros. They're definitely planning on doing all three championships this season.

I didn't watch Warsaw Cup... so upset about Roman's luggage I gave up... so I should remember because I probably put them in my prediction games so yeah.. already taken care of... good for them... I still dislike that LP... so a longer version is not going to help LOL

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I didn't watch Warsaw Cup... so upset about Roman's luggage I gave up... so I should remember because I probably put them in my prediction games so yeah.. already taken care of... good for them... I still dislike that LP... so a longer version is not going to help LOL

I don't like either of their programs this season, so oops, I am very much not looking forward to seeing them at Euros, Jr Worlds & Worlds either

 

[Mariott]

They said they didn't think they'd get GP assignments, but not that they actually wouldn't have. Safina/Berulava placed 4th at Worlds 2021-22, so Metelkina/Berulava should have been eligible for GP assignments under the same "split couple" rule as Peng/Wang (Peng/Jin were 5th at Worlds 2020/21).

Maybe they initially would not have received two assignments, but Hase/Volodin (same rule) & Liu/Nagy also ended up getting second assignments, so these two likely would have too, if they had been patient enough to wait.

I think their federation found out in advance if this was possible and they were denied or didn't get a clear answer. Otherwise they would have gone out to compete with adult pairs, as the chances are excellent.
Either way it was a shame to lose half the season and ranking points. If both partners meet the age restrictions, why not compete in the junior stages? No grounds for dismissal due to overqualification.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I think their federation found out in advance if this was possible and they were denied or didn't get a clear answer. Otherwise they would have gone out to compete with adult pairs, as the chances are excellent.

Eh, not necessarily. Would not be the first time skaters & their teams did not even make any attempts at finding out if something was possible and just assumed things. Like, considering that skaters have genuinely had planned program layouts that are not allowed, and those were high-level skaters & coaches too, I would not be surprised at anything at this point.

Either way it was a shame to lose half the season and ranking points. If both partners meet the age restrictions, why not compete in the junior stages? No grounds for dismissal due to overqualification.

They would not have lost half the season. They, like others, could have done Challengers, which by the way get more WS points than JGPs. And after winning even just one Challenger, they'd very likely have received one or even two GP assignments, if they truly wouldn't have had any at the start of the season. Especially in pairs, where withdrawals are frequent and the replacement list short.

I'm not saying they are terrible for competing on the JGP circuit, I'm just saying that this narrative of "Well, we basically had no other choice" is not necessarily telling the true or full story. And yes, maybe they truly believe what they're saying, but that doesn't have to make it true, unfortunately.

 

[Mariott]

Eh, not necessarily. Would not be the first time skaters & their teams did not even make any attempts at finding out if something was possible and just assumed things. Like, considering that skaters have genuinely had planned program layouts that are not allowed, and those were high-level skaters & coaches too, I would not be surprised at anything at this point.


They would not have lost half the season. They, like others, could have done Challengers, which by the way get more WS points than JGPs. And after winning even just one Challenger, they'd very likely have received one or even two GP assignments, if they truly wouldn't have had any at the start of the season. Especially in pairs, where withdrawals are frequent and the replacement list short.

I'm not saying they are terrible for competing on the JGP circuit, I'm just saying that this narrative of "Well, we basically had no other choice" is not necessarily telling the true or full story. And yes, maybe they truly believe what they're saying, but that doesn't have to make it true, unfortunately.

They've had entrances to other tournaments, but the grand prix stages are more profitable, right? Even in aspects of prize money. They have a small federation and few resources, they can't afford to participate everywhere they can, to put it bluntly. It's silly to expect skaters to miss out on their benefits.

I really understand the background of this passive dissatisfaction with the Georgian pair's victory, but I don't see any reasonable reason for it, except that they didn't leave the field and rid the competition for other players. They don't really have to do that because it seems to some that it would be the right and fair thing to do. No one is required to do that, right?

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Junior Pairs Podium Ceremony starting now on the Junior Men's FS stream:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZM7B9dvOXM

CaroLiza_fan

 

[icewhite]

They've had entrances to other tournaments, but the grand prix stages are more profitable, right? Even in aspects of prize money. They have a small federation and few resources, they can't afford to participate everywhere they can, to put it bluntly. It's silly to expect skaters to miss out on their benefits.

I really understand the background of this passive dissatisfaction with the Georgian pair's victory, but I don't see any reasonable reason for it, except that they didn't leave the field and rid the competition for other players. They don't really have to do that because it seems to some that it would be the right and fair thing to do. No one is required to do that, right?

Of course they are allowed to do what they do, but i just don't like that. I don't think skaters training in Russia being allowed at the moment is great - in that case neutral Russian athletes should be allowed as well. I don't think you should compete in juniors when you have already shown you are more than ready for seniors. And I don't think competing in both juniors and seniors is great. All of it is allowed, but none of that feels good to me, and this team has it all combined. And while the Georgian fed is small I don't think they pay so badly, by the way.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

They've had entrances to other tournaments, but the grand prix stages are more profitable, right? Even in aspects of prize money. They have a small federation and few resources, they can't afford to participate everywhere they can, to put it bluntly. It's silly to expect skaters to miss out on their benefits.

$15000 for winning 2 JGPs & JGPF (2x $3000 + $9000).
A single GP podium finish gets skaters anywhere from $9000 to $18000, and finishing as the top-ranked team in the Challenger series ~$6000. This scenario is certainly realistic, by the way, considering who got GP assignments after the first Challengers.

JGP was maybe more secure, in minimum terms of money, but did not offer the biggest potential earning either. And while Georgia is a small federation, it is not particularly poorly funded. While not everything will be covered by the Georgian fed, a significant part of training and travel expenses is paid for, if I am understanding past interviews right.

 

[Skatelife]

I just discovered Luka and Anastasia, contrary some opinions here I would love to see them as jr and Sr. Champions, I binged all tournaments they have been, its clear they keep improving, hope they can peak at worlds

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I have no problem with them being on the JGP circuit since they couldn't get to the GP circuit.. BUT, I don't think they should be doing both junior worlds and senior worlds. Pick one. Of course, if they are allowed, they are allowed. Just my gut feeling

I wonder if you feel the same about the Australian team last year. Or about the Ukrainian team who competed here. What Adam Hagara in the men?
Lots of skaters do both junior and senior competitions (and until the raisng of the age limit they often did this for years).

Personally, i want to see good skaters compete as much as possible.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

..

I've noticed only certain skaters get criticised for doing this and it's usually ones who have drawn social media ire for other reasons. Is this a genuine concern of yours or just an excuse to criticise this particular team?


Why should they have "waited" for possible senior GP assignments? They are age eligible to compete on the JGP and are doing nothing wrong. They are entitled to that prize money as much as anyone. And likely it's much easier to plan a debut season around earlier planned competitions anyway.

As for the comment about the financial status of the Georgian skating federation.. should skaters who get decent funding not compete and try to win medals in case they deprive someone financially worse off than them? By the that logic most of the other teams at the JGPF shouldn't be competing either.

 

[4everchan]

I wonder if you feel the same about the Australian team last year. Or about the Ukrainian team who competed here. What Adam Hagara in the men?
Lots of skaters do both junior and senior competitions (and until the raisng of the age limit they often did this for years).

How would you feel if Ilia Malinin went back to junior worlds at this point? I have no problem with skaters doing a mixture of competition under various circumstances. I am actually hoping Wesley Chiu will do junior worlds though he competed senior all year. Same with Kaiya.
But here, you have two seasoned competitors who, though they are age eligible and are allowed to compete seniors, chose a strange route to say the least. Rules are the rules, my feelings are my feelings.

Personally, i want to see good skaters compete as much as possible.

You are entitled to your opinion.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I've noticed only certain skaters get criticised for doing this and it's usually ones who have drawn social media ire for other reasons. Is this a genuine concern of yours or just an excuse to criticise this particular team?


Why should they have "waited" for possible senior GP assignments? They are age eligible to compete on the JGP and are doing nothing wrong. They are entitled to that prize money as much as anyone. And likely it's much easier to plan a debut season around earlier planned competitions anyway.

As for the comment about the financial status of the Georgian skating federation.. should skaters who get decent funding not compete and try to win medals in case they deprive someone financially worse off than them? By the that logic most of the other teams at the JGPF shouldn't be competing either.

No, I'd have the same reaction for basically every team in a similar situation. I am just not a fan of people going back to Juniors after having had significant success in Seniors - Which is not to say I'm against any skaters going back to Juniors or doing Juniors and Seniors simultaneously, there clearly are skaters who have moved up to Seniors too soon and would benefit from the lower pressure/technical difficulty in Juniors (pairs teams that have serious lift issues, for example, as in Juniors there are only two lifts in the Free Skate).

I obviously can't prove that to you. Do you want to know why? Because this is an unprecedented situation. They are the only team I know of where both skaters have been Seniors exclusively for at least one season, as well as them both having had major success as Seniors (GP bronze for Anastasiia & Sr Worlds 4th for Luka). This is very much not like the Aussies for example, who had not ever skated as Seniors when they declined Sr GP invitations last season, or Pedersen/Chen (USA, Ice Dance) where she is completely new to partnered Ice Dance, or Hocke/Kunkel back in 2019/20, when he was exclusively skating as a Jr up to that point & his highest placement at Jr Worlds was 7th.

And also, I didn't say they shouldn't compete if they get funded, I said their financial situation is very likely not the driving reason for skating as Juniors, and I stand by that.