2023-24 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 24 | Golden Skate

2023-24 Russian Women's Figure Skating

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I think Zhilina will be fine. I have trust that Plushenko treats his athlete well enough. And theres no news about how long she is out for, we might see her still in the finals. What Injury does she have exactly?

I think a lot of this is genetic, not all athletes are cut out for sport at the very highest level -- and that's what Russian women's figure skating is.

I don't think stress fractures are the result of whether someone treated athlete's "right" or not. They happen in all kinds of sports, and in figure skating with women who jump triples and doubles. It's not an Eteri problem but an industry problem.

If anything, Eteri's skaters are experiencing stress fractures at a rate lower than the overall numbers. Eteri has had skaters retire, but there are only ever three places available for international competition there is not much incentive to continue if you are scoring 200 in competitions.

prevalence-of-stress-fractures-in-figure-skaters-v0-dj0g0gt51okb1.jpg

Trusova didnt change much after the Olympics. She was already mature there and looked like she does now in regards to body structure. Its just normal weight she gained from not training now. I think she just didnt want to compete after Olympics either.

The only real precedent for a disaster like this was Usacheva. She had a significantly more severe injury than Akateva, though.
Trusova looked like a completely different person after the Olympics. She obviously suppressed her calorie intake in the Olympic year. She admits she ate once in the morning.

Usacheva's injury was just a freak fall nothing to do with Eteri's methods.
 
I don't think getting injured at 13 and getting injured at 16 are quite the same. Of course, it is still possible for her to recover if she rests it properly, but stress fractures are serious and can very much become a chronic problem. One need only look at Rika to see how they can ruin a career. Hopefully her parents and coaches will understand the seriousness and care for her properly.

I don't think it was ever specified, just said that she had a shoulder injury
Akatieva's injury is chronic and will likely not go away once she returns normal loads. Shcherbakova had an acute injury that would disappear once it healed.

It is curious though that Kamila Valieva has been resistant to injury despite being significantly larger than almost all female skaters in the world.
 
I think a lot of this is genetic, not all athletes are cut out for sport at the very highest level -- and that's what Russian women's figure skating is.

I don't think stress fractures are the result of whether someone treated athlete's "right" or not. They happen in all kinds of sports, and in figure skating with women who jump triples and doubles. It's not an Eteri problem but an industry problem.

If anything, Eteri's skaters are experiencing stress fractures at a rate lower than the overall numbers. Eteri has had skaters retire, but there are only ever three places available for international competition there is not much incentive to continue if you are scoring 200 in competitions.

prevalence-of-stress-fractures-in-figure-skaters-v0-dj0g0gt51okb1.jpg


Trusova looked like a completely different person after the Olympics. She obviously suppressed her calorie intake in the Olympic year. She admits she ate once in the morning.

Usacheva's injury was just a freak fall nothing to do with Eteri's methods.
Yes, I agree, and I also appreciate that you provide statistics to help vindicate Eteri from needless hate. However, my point was different even if I may have worded it poorly by referring to some aspects of training methods as "treatment".

What I'm saying is that Plushenko evidently puts significantly more focus on strength training and raw athleticism. This makes his athletes far less prone to injury. Especially in regards to acute impacts responsible for FS injury. Knowing Zhilina suffered an unrelated shoulder injury even moreso gives me confidence in Plushenko's athletes from a impact resistance perspective. Furthermore, his focus on athlete power allows his athletes to become heavier and follow more lenient diets. In general, Plushenko's skaters are more akin to power athletes. Even look at Trusova when she was with him - she got incredibly muscular and gave the impression more of an olympic sprinter than a balletic figure skater.

So, its not that I think Eteri treats her athletes "bad" but her methods are evidently more vulnerable to serious injury for her athletes. Eteri focuses more on lightness and balleticism, which leaves the girls frail. It's a tradeoff. I'm not here to say which is correct. But, hence is my strong confidence that in the case of Plushenko athletes (such as Zhilina) there is much greater chance that:

1. The injury is less serious
2. Full recovery is far more likely

And like I said, for recovery nutrition is extremely important. A hardcore diet plan during recovery is brain dead from any perspective and knowing that Eteri is very particular about athlete nutrition, it became one of the specific concerns I voiced in regards to Akateva. If Akateva eating more leads to growth spurts or loss of form etc... from which she cannot recover technically due to genetics, then the injury only hastened the inevitable. She has to be allowed to eat and take it easy right now or she has zero chance. Just because Eteri isn't "bad" doesn't mean her system might not have flaws, and this could turn out to be one.

As for Trusova. Yes, like I said her weight exploded after Olympics. I agree that she was a different athlete afterwards. But, the point I was making is that her actual body structure was already post-development at Olympics and therefore if she had the will then she could have maintained form further. It wasnt a genetic stoppage on her part, but just mental exhaustion, which is understandable. But her developmental genetics were not the reason of her retirement. And if she wanted to then she could easily, even with the extra weight, have maintained a form at least equal to the current bigger Kaori. And with a strict regiment after a mental break, she could have come back and kept jumping quads for sure. That was the point - her development itself didnt kill her career. She just had no reason to put in that level of effort. But for some girls no matter the effort, their genetics are not beatable due to post-development failure.

As for Usacheva. I dont believe a "freak fall" is responsible for an irrecoverable hip break in a teenage girl. I'm not condemning Eteri here, but to say that Usacheva was purely unlucky and there were no extra factors seems disingenuous. I've never seen that happen before or since, and it isnt a coincidence that it happened in a sport where girls have to be extremely slim and also in the particular training camp known for the slimmest, lightest girls with the strictest diets. The only thing otherwise which could be responsible for that disaster is a severe genetic condition, but she would have broken something else far before in this sport if she had such a thing.
 
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I think a lot of this is genetic, not all athletes are cut out for sport at the very highest level -- and that's what Russian women's figure skating is.

I don't think stress fractures are the result of whether someone treated athlete's "right" or not. They happen in all kinds of sports, and in figure skating with women who jump triples and doubles. It's not an Eteri problem but an industry problem.

If anything, Eteri's skaters are experiencing stress fractures at a rate lower than the overall numbers. Eteri has had skaters retire, but there are only ever three places available for international competition there is not much incentive to continue if you are scoring 200 in competitions.

prevalence-of-stress-fractures-in-figure-skaters-v0-dj0g0gt51okb1.jpg
Interesting data. Kinda shocked by women pairs' numbers.
 
Akatieva's injury is chronic and will likely not go away once she returns normal loads. Shcherbakova had an acute injury that would disappear once it healed.

It is curious though that Kamila Valieva has been resistant to injury despite being significantly larger than almost all female skaters in the world.
Valieva has been resistant to injury because she is bigger. Her body is so much stronger than the other girls. Her legs are like actually 2x the size of everyone else's and very muscular. Lets say shes carrying around ~8 extra kilos, so like +15%-20% impact, for probably around double the muscularity and strength. Shes basically immune to impact injury unless she has a horrible landing on her ankle. Its not linear - the amount of impact resistance this allows her far outweighs the increased impact damage the extra mass causes in the first place. Its no coincidence that her landings are so soft as well. She absorbs everything. Meanwhile 40kg (? maybe less) Adeliia smacks the ice on landing. Although of course Adeliia also rotates much faster for the same reason. This is also non linear - Adellia is only ~5kg lighter than some girls (meaning maybe like 10%) but thats enough to give her significant advantages in basically everything, far beyond that 10%.
 
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Akatieva's injury is chronic and will likely not go away once she returns normal loads. Shcherbakova had an acute injury that would disappear once it healed.

It is curious though that Kamila Valieva has been resistant to injury despite being significantly larger than almost all female skaters in the world.
Is it really necessary for you to constantly bring up Kamila's body...But I don't think there's anything curious about it. She is the size of a normal 17-year-old girl. There's no reason as to why she should be more prone to injuries than others. If anything, she should probably less prone to injury compared to those with more frail builds. There's certainly less cause for worry when she falls as opposed to the super thin girls :slink:
 
As for Usacheva. I dont believe a "freak fall" is responsible for an irrecoverable hip break in a teenage girl. I'm not condemning Eteri here, but to say that Usacheva was purely unlucky and there were no extra factors seems disingenuous. I've never seen that happen before or since, and it isnt a coincidence that it happened in a sport where girls have to be extremely slim and also in the particular training camp known for the slimmest, lightest girls with the strictest diets. The only thing otherwise which could be responsible for that disaster is a severe genetic condition, but she would have broken something else far before in this sport if she had such a thing.
She did recover. She was jumping a triple again in training. At her peak she never had ultra-c. She likely made the assessment that even if I dedicate myself to this 6 days per week for the next year, I'm still not going to win anything.

If she skated for a country like Georgia then obviously she would have more motivation to continue since dedicating herself to skating for the next 12 months would result in international opportunities, winning international medals.

Let's not forget that Sinitsyna has yet again another stress fracture, Frolova was out a couple years ago with a stress fracture, Zhilina will be skating with a shoulder not healed next week.
 
Today's juniors free skate in Russian GP was actually pretty impressive. :points:
yes, it was great competition :clap::love2:

Alisa Dvoeglazova FS: 4Lz, 4T clean 1st place total score 230.78

Lidia Pleskacheva FS: 3A clean, 2nd place total score 218.09
 
yes, it was great competition :clap::love2:

Alisa Dvoeglazova FS: 4Lz, 4T clean 1st place total score 230.78

Lidia Pleskacheva FS: 3A clean, 2nd place total score 218.09
Alisa! Can be competitive with Margarita…

OMG!! Panova has another star ⭐️ in her camp. Love her as a coach and I’m happy to see her with another star athlete.
 
Alisa! Can be competitive with Margarita…
She already is

Dvoeglazova: 230.78
Bazyluk: 230.76

(I think... I'm going off memory but their scores are within a couple hundredths)

Bazyluk failed her 4T in FS but Dvoeglazova had a shaky SP.

I actually think Dvoeglazova is the favourite now. Her 4Lz is very consistent. And her artistry is more advanced. Bazyluk has speed and lightness though, so PCS is super close too (Dvoeglazova had her beat in PCS overall by only about a point).
 
https://www.sports.ru/figure-skatin...olimpijskom-sezone-kazhdyj-priem-pishhi-.html
Olympic champion Anna Shcherbakova spoke about weight control in sports.

“Gymnasts, figure skaters, ballerinas know this topic very well, everyone will understand that from childhood you always watch your weight. We had weigh-ins every day. I probably started weighing myself when I was 7 years old.

But I’m one of the lucky girls, one might say: I didn’t have any problems until a certain age. I know girls who, from the age of 9, limit themselves in some way. Until I was 15-16 years old, I didn’t think about it at all.

At the age of 17, I began adolescence - it was just the Olympic season. And for the first time I was faced with the problem that I needed to lose weight, and everything that had worked before no longer worked. This season I was very strict about my diet.

I had a weight that I had to stick to: 42 kilograms with a height of 161. In the offseason and before this season, I had an injury, due to which I gained 3-4 kilograms. This is incredibly critical.

How did I cope? The surest way, as everyone says, is not to eat. At that moment, my main problem was that I believed that food was the enemy, and with every meal I felt like I was harming myself. And after any meal, which seemed to me too much, you put everything on yourself again and go to the gym,” Shcherbakova said in the “Tonight” program on Channel One.

“I tried counting calories, but I started to get too focused on nutrition. Now I look at food, I already have a scanner in my head, I have multiplied everything. The goal is always to reduce, I want fewer calories.

I've always had weigh-ins. I weighed myself 50 times a day, but now I’ve weaned myself – I weigh myself once a day, and even then it’s hard for me. And during active competitions, every second of the day I had to know how much I weigh,” the skater added.
 
As I said in the Samara thread

I wonder what the mentality is where Eteri and Daniel can't be bothered going to a GP stage where there are two of their skaters, and their skater won the junior girls as well.

Kamila is clearly not prepared for next week she was at Medvedeva's party and doing photoshoots during the week, Maya so far away they should have withdrawn her. I think Dudakov does a lot of work with the younger skaters so probably why standards have been maintained with juniors while Eteri is there on a part time basis. Alisa was impressive that's the best I've seen her perform.


Then in the Stage 6 Moscow thread

I'm going to have to watch Saturday's programs on replay unfortunately. This is just set up for drama with the women after Sinitsyna and Gushchina's performances, Muravieva doesn't look like making an error, Zhilina only needs to land a triple axel and one quad to have a chance for gold. It's going to be tough for Valieva if she has multiple falls across both programs. The pressure will really ramp up on her against this line up. I really question her conditioning. I don't question her strength I think she's in the gym everyday building muscle, but no cardio. Zilch. Wrong advice. I'm not sure they know how to condition athletes who are not 35kg approaching adulthood.

Now Alexey Zheleznyakov is leaving Eteri's group.

It really is all falling apart. Eteri prioritising a Georgian who will never amount to anything over her best in the world girls, Dudakov basically taking over everyday coaching duties (and looking frustrated as hell in the process), Maya in no condition to skate, Kamila with no cardio and strange tension with her coaches (I identified this last week), Akatieva's injury (maybe she doesn't want to be there), curious timing of Eteri's interview, now Zheleznyakov leaving (he does say controversial things but that has been for a long time).

I'm kind of stunned how bad their seniors are, the juniors are still strong because Dudakov trains them to my knowledge. Kamila is probably operating at 60-70% of her capacity and can still get a legitimate 81 in the short program though.
 
Interestingly enough, 3 of the 6 GP's so far have had winners who didn't do any ultra-c elements. Some may disagree with me, but I think it's nice that girls without any quads or 3A actually have a chance of taking the gold at this events.
 
Interestingly enough, 3 of the 6 GP's so far have had winners who didn't do any ultra-c elements. Some may disagree with me, but I think it's nice that girls without any quads or 3A actually have a chance of taking the gold at this events.
I was just thinking the same thing!
 
I was just thinking the same thing!
I think, it is a transition period with retirements and lost of motivation however in the other hand we watched the highest quality competition in this stage in the junior level. Eteri team is there, but other schools are taking the challenge, everyone is upgrading the game.
 
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