2023-24 US Pairs Figure Skating

[yuki@thelake]

I thought there were no medical byes? I’m confused

That's what we thought as well. It was the talk in our rink today among the coaches. They are not on the list for Pairs Finals, but as their posts said on Instagram, "finish out this season on a high note!!!"

Just like pairs is the only discipline where you can be in the ISP if you submit a video instead of getting the scores via a competition, seems like there's more leeway in pairs, especially if the top junior team couldn't skate now but can skate probably at the nationals.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

@moonvine, Digerness/ Sadusky got a medical bye to Senior Nats last year when not able to compete at Pairs Final. But they had competed at a NQS event that summer. I suppose a medical bye to Nats for juniors hasn't happened previously. But, there's always a first time.

BTW, any skinny on what's happened with the Scott/ Siianytsia partnership? The most I've seen of Danylo recently is an IG story posted by Starr, of her and Danylo lifting small weights at a gym. They look good together. But nope to those who previously suggested that Starr is switching to pairs. I mean it may not be out of the question, but I doubt it. Dating doesn't always translate to becoming pairs partners.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

My early money is on Ellie and Timmy.

I'm not sure if you're saying you think Ellie & Timmy will take the U.S. pairs title? That's highly unlikely. Even getting on the podium at Nats will be difficult. They will probably score well, but another drawback is their international non-eligibility. Chan/ Howe are likely favored to take the U.S. pairs title, if Spencer is fully healed and they are in good shape competitively, seeing as they had to pull out of the GP series. Still, they have huge standing from two silver medals on the GP last season, a silver at '23 Nats, silvers at '22 and '23 4CCs, and a 5th place at '23 Worlds. That's nothing to sneeze at.

The possibilities thereafter are a toss-up, with Kam O'Shea not looking quite as strong as I had anticipated. Ellie's possible concussion at SC, and her confidence on jumps and throws are in question. I hope that Ellie & Danny can pull through. There is bound to be strong competition for the U.S. podium from Efimova/ Mitrofanov; McBeath/ Parkman; and Liu/ Nagy. E/M unfortunately, cannot go to Worlds, even if they medal at U.S. Nats, because Alisa won't have her release till after Worlds.

My thinking is that Chan/ Howe, Liu/ Nagy, and either McBeath/ Parkman, or Kam/ O'Shea will make the World team. But all of these teams will need to be stronger in order to have a chance to maintain three spots for the U.S. for Worlds. At this stage, the prospects seem dicey -- C/H were unable to compete internationally this season due to Spencer's shoulder surgery (their World standing last season was ahead of Pereira/ Michaud of Canada -- will the injury mean they have lost ground to P/M on the international stage?)

Meanwhile, both Ellie & Chelsea are not strong on the jumps and throws; and McBeath/ Parkman are a new partnership who haven't competed internationally yet (which would disadvantage them in the skate order at Worlds). Since last season, the U.S. have lost both Knierim/ Frazier, and the young, promising team, Smirnova/ Siianytsia (as well as the team who won junior Worlds, Sonia Baram/ Daniel Tioutmentsev).

Some observers apparently take this to mean the U.S. has 'no depth.' That's not true. Amazingly, there is still depth, in terms of the number of promising teams. In several cases, there are promising new partnerships in which both individuals have a lot of pairs experience, but not with each other (i.e., Liu/ Nagy; McBeath/ Parkman; and Efimova/ Mitrofanov). So while there may not be proven depth at this point among U.S. pairs (aside from Chan/ Howe, and veteran pairs guy, Danny O'Shea), there's plenty of teams with a ton of potential. U.S. pairs deserve much more respect than they usually tend to receive from many skating fans.

While Ellie & Timmy are wonderful prospects for the future. The best we can hope, IMO, is that they will gather experience and domestic standing at U.S. Nationals. They are not going to be winning the U.S. title anytime soon.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

It's been so interesting and informative watching Juvenile and Intermediate pairs. I think the novice level group competing seemed less skilled, and the scoring from discipline to discipline somewhat confusing. I imagine only a few teams might stay together and make it all the way to seniors. But, that could be for a variety of reasons, including changed interests, financial and logistical reasons, partners growing out of a good match with each other, etc. I must stop back later to discuss my favorite teams on the lower levels.

 

[skaterpups]

Did not expect to see some of the placements in the Short for U.S. Pair Final Short !

 

[skaterpups]

So who is out of Nationals?
I saw someone say 5 byes + top 7 at Pair Final.

That means Ouellette/Newby-Estrella, McFarland/Gillette, and Hanns/Neudecker are all out? Is that correct?

 

[yuki@thelake]

So who is out of Nationals?
I saw someone say 5 byes + top 7 at Pair Final.

That means Ouellette/Newby-Estrella, McFarland/Gillette, and Hanns/Neudecker are all out? Is that correct?

Correct. Top 7 scores from the Pair Finals go in -- unless teams that got byes cannot make it

 

[moonvine]

I'm not sure if you're saying you think Ellie & Timmy will take the U.S. pairs title? That's highly unlikely. Even getting on the podium at Nats will be difficult. They will probably score well, but another drawback is their international non-eligibility. Chan/ Howe are likely favored to take the U.S. pairs title, if Spencer is fully healed and they are in good shape competitively, seeing as they had to pull out of the GP series. Still, they have huge standing from two silver medals on the GP last season, a silver at '23 Nats, silvers at '22 and '23 4CCs, and a 5th place at '23 Worlds. That's nothing to sneeze at.

The possibilities thereafter are a toss-up, with Kam O'Shea not looking quite as strong as I had anticipated. Ellie's possible concussion at SC, and her confidence on jumps and throws are in question. I hope that Ellie & Danny can pull through. There is bound to be strong competition for the U.S. podium from Efimova/ Mitrofanov; McBeath/ Parkman; and Liu/ Nagy. E/M unfortunately, cannot go to Worlds, even if they medal at U.S. Nats, because Alisa won't have her release till after Worlds.

My thinking is that Chan/ Howe, Liu/ Nagy, and either McBeath/ Parkman, or Kam/ O'Shea will make the World team. But all of these teams will need to be stronger in order to have a chance to maintain three spots for the U.S. for Worlds. At this stage, the prospects seem dicey -- C/H were unable to compete internationally this season due to Spencer's shoulder surgery (their World standing last season was ahead of Pereira/ Michaud of Canada -- will the injury mean they have lost ground to P/M on the international stage?)

Meanwhile, both Ellie & Chelsea are not strong on the jumps and throws; and McBeath/ Parkman are a new partnership who haven't competed internationally yet (which would disadvantage them in the skate order at Worlds). Since last season, the U.S. have lost both Knierim/ Frazier, and the young, promising team, Smirnova/ Siianytsia (as well as the team who won junior Worlds, Sonia Baram/ Daniel Tioutmentsev).

Some observers apparently take this to mean the U.S. has 'no depth.' That's not true. Amazingly, there is still depth, in terms of the number of promising teams. In several cases, there are promising new partnerships in which both individuals have a lot of pairs experience, but not with each other (i.e., Liu/ Nagy; McBeath/ Parkman; and Efimova/ Mitrofanov). So while there may not be proven depth at this point among U.S. pairs (aside from Chan/ Howe, and veteran pairs guy, Danny O'Shea), there's plenty of teams with a ton of potential. U.S. pairs deserve much more respect than they usually tend to receive from many skating fans.

While Ellie & Timmy are wonderful prospects for the future. The best we can hope, IMO, is that they will gather experience and domestic standing at U.S. Nationals. They are not going to be winning the U.S. title anytime soon.

Yes, I had only gotten to see them compete once this year and was told the content was watered down for their first competition. I agree they aren't likely to take the US title. They are going to be super stars though.

I do think it's grossly unfair to base placements on international non-eligibility. Whoever skates the best should win, period.

No one has any idea how C/H are, which is a pity since as we know they made the GPF last year. Otherwise we have talented but inconsistent pairs skaters. I agree that we have many talented teams coming up.

 

[skaterpups]

Yes, I had only gotten to see them compete once this year and was told the content was watered down for their first competition. I agree they aren't likely to take the US title. They are going to be super stars though.

I do think it's grossly unfair to base placements on international non-eligibility. Whoever skates the best should win, period.

No one has any idea how C/H are, which is a pity since as we know they made the GPF last year. Otherwise we have talented but inconsistent pairs skaters. I agree that we have many talented teams coming up.

We know that C/H are skating as there was a instagram story on Halloween that Olga posted. It showed them doing their footwork in their halloween costumes. We just don't know what they are training other than footwork and choreo.

 

[yuki@thelake]

Are there pair girls who will do double duty at Nationals? (compete both pairs and singles)

For men, Maravilla and Wang will compete both Junior Men and Junior Pairs having qualified at the sectionals

 

[skaterpups]

Are there pair girls who will do double duty at Nationals? (compete both pairs and singles)

For men, Maravilla and Wang will compete both Junior Men and Junior Pairs having qualified at the sectionals

Milada Kovar in 6th in Intermediate Ladies and 3rd in Novice Pairs.
Taisiya Shapovalova in 8th in Itermediate Ladies and 7th in Novice Pairs
Saya Carpenter in 8th Novice Ladies and in 6th Junior Pairs.

 

[yuki@thelake]

Milada Kovar in 6th in Intermediate Ladies and 3rd in Novice Pairs.
Taisiya Shapovalova in 8th in Itermediate Ladies and 7th in Novice Pairs

I meant at Nationals. Both ladies did not qualify to the National Development Team for singles as you need to have medaled (1st-4th place)

Kovar will do the Novice Pairs competition at the Nationals but cannot join NDT and participate in the camp because she did not medal for her singles

 

[skaterpups]

I meant at Nationals. Both ladies did not qualify to the National Development Team for singles as you need to have medaled (1st-4th place)

Kovar will do the Novice Pairs competition at the Nationals but cannot join NDT and participate in the camp because she did not medal for her singles

Oops! Sorry I misread, but yeah I don't think there is anyone else other than these girls doing pairs and singles.
Possibly next week at midwest?

 

[yuki@thelake]

Oops! Sorry I misread, but yeah I don't think there is anyone else other than these girls doing pairs and singles.
Possibly next week at midwest?

No more pairs competition at Midwest as all pair finals were held at the Pacific. Next year, Pair Finals will be in the eastern section

So only 2 boys will do double duty come nationals where they compete singles and pairs. 4 events in 2 days whew!

 

[skaterpups]

No more pairs competition at Midwest as all pair finals were held at the Pacific. Next year, Pair Finals will be in the eastern section

So only 2 boys will do double duty come nationals where they compete singles and pairs. 4 events in 2 days whew!

I mean there maybe some possible that some girls are doing Midwest in singles.

 

[yuki@thelake]

I mean there maybe some possible that some girls are doing Midwest in singles.

Ah yes, that's correct. I am not sure if Baylen Taich, who won novice pairs with Michael Chappa qualified for sectionals as she is #13 in Upper Great Lakes region. If she qualified for sectionals, she may do it in the midwest as I did not see her in the intermediate ladies competition in the Pacific

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I do think it's grossly unfair to base placements on international non-eligibility. Whoever skates the best should win, period.

Yeah, this is true. But did you notice the scoring at the pairs final? I think the judges' scoring was questionable in a number of instances. While Isabelle and Ryan (Martins/Bedard), have improved their basics, and they skated fairly good in the sp, they are a bit slow and not as stretched, polished and expressive as some other teams. They do connect with each other well since they've been skating together for so long. I disagreed with the overly high 63+ for Martins/ Bedard in the sp, compared with scoring for a few other teams. M/B did not have to compete in the finals once they received the late GP assignment (which automatically gives them a bye to Nationals). But they still desired to compete, which makes sense, as they only had one GP.

In general, it looks as if Ellie & Timmy are putting in the work, but holding back at the moment on advanced jumping passes. They are likely trying to ensure clean performances. I like their energy, and I agree with you about their potential.

I enjoyed watching the Intermediate and Juvenile pairs, as I haven't seen those events before. I wasn't too impressed by the novice teams, except for a few. Some of the juniors are good, but still works-in-progress. The junior teams with byes to Nats are obviously much stronger.

The battle between Efimova/ Mitrofanov and McBeath/ Parkman is going to be interesting. E/M will not be eligible for Worlds next year, since Alisa won't get her release until April. Guess which team won the pairs final? It's been said that Parkman should be released in December. Both of these teams look good, and they have different styles. From looking at protocols, a few judges appeared to preference M/P over E/M, especially in some pcs categories. I disagree with a lot of the scoring, in terms of PCS and GOE. There's not a lot separating these two teams. Both teams need much more work, in order to be highly competitive internationally.

M/P have the better twist, but E/M have a more graceful, lyrical style. M/P seem more powerful and dramatic, but E/M have more flow. Both Alisa and Katie need to improve confidence and consistency on their jumps and throws.

 

[skaterpups]

Yeah, this is true. But did you notice the scoring at the pairs final? I think the judges' scoring was questionable in a number of instances. While Isabelle and Ryan (Martins/Bedard), have improved their basics, and they skated fairly good in the sp, they are a bit slow and not as stretched, polished and expressive as some other teams. They do connect with each other well since they've been skating together for so long. I disagreed with the overly high 63+ for Martins/ Bedard in the sp, compared with scoring for a few other teams. M/B did not have to compete in the finals once they received the late GP assignment (which automatically gives them a bye to Nationals). But they still desired to compete, which makes sense, as they only had one GP.

In general, it looks as if Ellie & Timmy are putting in the work, but holding back at the moment on advanced jumping passes. They are likely trying to ensure clean performances. I like their energy, and I agree with you about their potential.

I enjoyed watching the Intermediate and Juvenile pairs, as I haven't seen those events before. I wasn't too impressed by the novice teams, except for a few. Some of the juniors are good, but still works-in-progress. The junior teams with byes to Nats are obviously much stronger.

The battle between Efimova/ Mitrofanov and McBeath/ Parkman is going to be interesting. E/M will not be eligible for Worlds next year, since Alisa won't get her release until April. Guess which team won the pairs final? It's been said that Parkman should be released in December. Both of these teams look good, and they have different styles. From looking at protocols, a few judges appeared to preference M/P over E/M, especially in some pcs categories. I disagree with a lot of the scoring, in terms of PCS and GOE. There's not a lot separating these two teams. Both teams need much more work, in order to be highly competitive internationally.

M/P have the better twist, but E/M have a more graceful, lyrical style. M/P seem more powerful and dramatic, but E/M have more flow. Both Alisa and Katie need to improve confidence and consistency on their jumps and throws.

It's a US event, there's going to be home-cooking at most country-based qualifiying competitions to boost up points and confidence. Just look at french masters, the pairs were doing all doubles and were scoring 90+. I'm not saying it's right to do that but it's almost given.
-10 points for all the teams and that's closer to the real score internationally haha.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

It's a US event, there's going to be home-cooking at most country-based qualifiying competitions to boost up points and confidence. Just look at french masters, the pairs were doing all doubles and were scoring 90+. I'm not saying it's right to do that but it's almost given.
-10 points for all the teams and that's closer to the real score internationally haha.

Actually, in many instances, the scores were kinda low or within reason for the Pacific Coast NQS. I specifically was talking about M/B's higher score in the sp compared with much lower scores for teams who M/B are not loads better than. In general, the scoring was uneven, and for some reason pcs was slotted in often as the same exact score as tech, which was strange.

At U.S. Nationals proper, for sure, the scoring tends to be a lot higher than skaters may be rated internationally.

 

[moonvine]

Did not expect to see some of the placements in the Short for U.S. Pair Final Short !

What did you expect?