2023 Cup of China: Men's Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Siao Him Fa surprises; takes Cup of China gold

2023 Cup of China: Men Adam Siao Him Fa of France surprised, taking the 2023 Cup of China gold medal ahead of two-time Olympic medalist Shoma Uno of Japan. With […]

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...but should we be surprised? Siao Him Fa has really been bringing it this season!!

Good job Shaidorov

I'm hoping we will see Jin at 4CCs. I really want to see how much he improves between now and then.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Kitt]

Wow wow Shaidorov! His skating was crisp, clean and musical! I loved it and look forward to seeing more of this kid.

Adam is very impressive, are we looking at a new world champion?? I love Shoma, but he looks like his competitive spirit is not there. His artistry is even better than last year, which is saying a lot!

 

[4everchan]

Adam is having a great season. Hope he remains consistent. There is a long way before worlds.
Shoma is just starting his season. I love his programs, especially the LP.
Costly mistakes for him there today but nice to see a big smile on his face. His costume is really good too. What a great musical choice for him. Shows his maturity and mastery.

I am not like many GS fans on the Shaidorov train yet. To me, he has to improve in both departments (TES and PCS). He has some good steady tricks that bring in big points and he can build on that. However, the basic skating for me is lacking too much to put him on my personal list of candidates for great skating. Of course, he is young, he is developing and as a skating fan, I always wish for skaters to grow and develop their sport.

I was a bit disappointed with Sota as he won Skate Canada and was GPF bound. It seems like he was affected by fatigue or jet lag or whatever it is like other skaters who did Skate Canada. The GP season is SO quick. I wonder if the ISU should so SKAM and SCI back to back, then take a week off, do European GPs, take a week off and do Asian GPs. It may be easier on skaters on their second assignment and better overall for the sport because of the chance for better performances.

 

[ladyjane]

Lovely to watch the men....Adam was such a joy, Shoma (my favourite) a little less, and Shaidorov good but not my emotional favourite even with that wonderful music, Kazuki a real treat (even with a mistake), and all the other good ones. Poor Lucas (great skater, not so good shoes). Nice night in any case.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Nice to see Adam put two strong back to back GPs and upset the top guys in the process. Hope he hasn't peaked but wow, what a season for him so far. He is definitely getting some extra love from the judges but I think the results are correct.

Shoma had a wonderful SP but his FS had a ton of issues and I thought he should have placed 3rd in that segment.

Shaidorov was brilliant and very much hosed by the tech panel in the FS. His 4Z (even if prerotated) was clearly rotated on the landing, and even if it were a q, the quality of it was so good that it should have got +1/+2 minimum across the board. The 3Aq and 4Tq were also super picky and popular skaters will be given no call for that. His 4T+3T in the SP and FS were also totally underscored on GOE. If he were from any of the major countries he'd get the GOE he deserves on his jumps and probably higher PCS. He's got the goods but needs more speed and better spins.

Tomono was a highlight for me too, but too bad about Sota - he can't seem to find his consistency (solid FS though). While no 300's, this was also a relatively strong skated men's competition too with all of the top 5 clearing 250.

 

[lariko]

I only had one thought all day after seeing men first thing in the morning. Shaidorov! Awesome!

 

[eppen]

When I checked the start orders about 24 hours before the competition and got a surge of butterflies, I realized that yeah, Adam Siao Him Fa has become a favorite skater for real I did travel to see him last season already, so that should have not come as a surprise...

This really was his 6th competition of the season and he had back-to-back GPs with theoretically some of the hardest lineups in men so far, and so it was amazing that he was able to do the programs so well. The fall in the 4T combo was understandable - mistakes have to come in at some point - and he was admirably cool about it in the press comments. But what he did in the free was somewhat jaw-dropping. He was able to turn the shaky start into a rock solid performance... That the judges gave him a positive GOE for the 4T combo is just some compensation for the low PCS he still keeps getting. I hope that he will get to 93,55 by the end of the season...

This was the 8th time Adam has done a 2+4 quad layout in his career and he has now 4 free skates with all the quads in the positive side. Nathan has the highest number of frees with 4 good quads - 9 out of 14 competitions. Shoma has tried 21 times and has 2 with all quads clean. Hanyu tried 13 times and got 3 times all quads clean. Malinin has now 7 times with 3 times with clean quads. These numbers cover all kinds of competitions, domestic and international. (And just in case someone's interested, Nathan is the only one to get 2+5 layout with the free quads clean, 5 out of 11 competitions.)

It was interesting to see Shoma for the first time this season. I have never liked him very much - I think he has always been an utterly predictable, manneristic and boring skater and these two programs were more of the same. Though the short was slightly more interesting - here the tech panel showed love to him giving no calls for the 4F (in slow mo looked at least q, maybe even <).

After the comp, I did my quads stats collection and looking at the program layouts, I suddenly realized (really, for the first time!) that Adam does 6 jumps at the start of his free program. The other guys had more common layouts with the 3-4 jumps at the top followed by spins/steps and then second jump passes and so on. I rewatched just to understand why 6 consecutive jumps did not seem like a jump drill to me (and apparently to a lot of other people as well, because I have not seen any complaints about this). He really does put in a lot of variation of pace, movement etc. to the transitions between the jumps.

My main comparison here was Shoma, who has more variation in his free layouts, but in my eyes, looks really "tasapaksu" - a word in Finnish that really has no good translation, but literally 'of equal thickness', and also more generally something being the same all the time. He is like a steam engine on level ground, moving forward at a steady pace with a huff and a puff every 20 seconds (the jumps). There is no variation is pace until the end of the program when, this year, the music actually slows down. There is really no variation of intensity at all and with his not very nuanced movement and expression in general, this was not great to watch.

Gabriele Frangipani getting two good programs after an apparently very challenging summer and poor performances in the early comps was lovely to see! Magri quitting the YGA in the spring really left his students in a limbo that has been difficult to get away from...

Shaidorov was ok. If they had not included O Fortuna in the music cut, it would have been a credible Carmina Burana program - that bit showed his weaknesses in skating skills, speed production and creating intensity and power into his performance.

 

[DancingCactus]

Comparing Shoma to a steam engine ...I kind of understand what you mean, but for me, this is something positive. His skating is a seamless, calm flow from one moment to the next, almost like a trance. Completely different from other skaters, but absolutely great when done right.

 

[Arriba627]

@eppen You had me worried last season when you never stopped by to tell us how you don't like Shoma. Speaking of predictable, your posts are pretty predictable. Oh wait, that's right. Last season he won the gold at every competition and received numerous accolades for the first program that was ever skated to a counter tenor. Where were you then? Watch Legends, Loco, and Ladies in Lavender and tell me those programs are all the same. Seriously? But then I guess with the skater who is your favorite, you could be considered the expert on sameness. Hopefully you're already giving thought to who will be your next punching bag when Shoma retires.

 

[icewhite]

I don't mind Shoma at all, I just don't really like his programs with Lambiel much and I really, really dislike this new free skate. I suppose it's meant to bring back an old school style of programs that Lambiel obviously can't let go.
But it's 2023. And this does not look like a competitive program in 2023, it's a dreamy artistic show program with jumps included.

I don't doubt Shoma as a skater. Sure, he has his flaws, but then, who doesn't. He's an amazing skater for sure. But I don't get the hype about Lambiel and it's starting to itch me more and more that he is worshipped so much. Maybe it's just a question of taste and personal sensitivities. While he was a great skater I like the guy less and less. And I am just not willing to follow his vision of figure skating because honestly it feels outdated, artificial and self-absorbed to me, and that's also what this program is, and insofar I get eppen, even though I don't see any need to rage against the skater Shoma.

 

[Arriba627]

I don't doubt Shoma as a skater. Sure, he has his flaws, but then, who doesn't. He's an amazing skater for sure. But I don't get the hype about Lambiel and it's starting to itch me more and more that he is worshipped so much. Maybe it's just a question of taste and personal sensitivities. While he was a great skater I like the guy less and less. And I am just not willing to follow his vision of figure skating because honestly it feels outdated, artificial and self-absorbed to me, and that's also what this program is, and insofar I get eppen, even though I don't see any need to rage against the skater Shoma.

Stephane is the guy people love to hate. We have a whole thread on that, so see "Define Lambiel's Coaching Style". In fact I'm sure you participated in that thread. I'm not here to comment on Stephane. I understand he is polarizing.

 

[icewhite]

Stephane is the guy people love to hate. We have a whole thread on that, so see "Define Lambiel's Coaching Style". In fact I'm sure you participated in that thread. I'm not here to comment on Stephane. I understand he is polarizing.

I don't think I participated in that thread.
However, I don't see much polarization, I only see people worshipping him and read more and more people saying skater xy should go to Lambiel. Maybe I'm only reading one part of social media. I feel like I'm the only one not liking him, but okay.

 

[lariko]

Lambiel is fine as a finishing coach for already good skaters. His cooperation with Uno is succesful. But, like, I am glad they now have alternative in Switzerland to start a new school/tradition in women's skating.

 

[demarinis5]

Steph did not choreograph Shoma’s long program it was Kenji Miyamoto.

 

[icewhite]

Steph did not choreograph Shoma’s long program it was Kenji Miyamoto.

Okay. I read this interview and it sounded like he had a huge influence on that program, chose the music and wanted the slowest part at the end and such. A lot of the movement also look very Stephanish. But of course I don't know how much of it is actually his. Maybe I have to place some blame on Miyamoto instead, or on Shoma himself...

 

[TallyT]

... and read more and more people saying skater xy should go to Lambiel.

That happened with Brian Orser around 2015-18, then Arutyunyan, now it's Stephane...

 

[SmileHappy34]

Jimmy Ma is a wonderful skater that despite his many tech errors that mare the program. The choreo and program comes through. He would be excellent if put all together with few tech .
He lets too many come into his skating.

 

[SmileHappy34]

Congrats to Adam for the win.i didn't think Adam could skate two great programs a week later. He had scratch landing on his jumps. He wasn't as exciting as in France.

Shoma I think did well for his season debut skate ( 1st skate of season). Despite the mess ups on his first two jumping passes. He skate well and working out the kinks.

Michael skate well wow.
Kazoko and others Impressive.

 

[TallyT]

Jimmy Ma is a wonderful skater that despite his many tech errors that mare the program. The choreo and program comes through. He would be excellent if put all together with few tech .
He lets too many come into his skating.

Jimmy is one of the skaters who may not medal, but whose presence in a competition simply lifts it anyway.

 

[Arriba627]

Jimmy Ma is a wonderful skater that despite his many tech errors that mare the program. The choreo and program comes through. He would be excellent if put all together with few tech .
He lets too many come into his skating.

Jimmy is SO talented, and I just can't understand what makes him tick. I understand he is a classical pianist too. I don't see it when streaming his performances, but when I've seen him live, it seems like he gets too excited and then the program gets away from him. Like he starts to get wild, if that makes any sense. Maybe he needs to learn to control his energy better?