2023 GPF Pairs: Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Hase and Volodin seize Grand Prix Final gold

2023-24 Grand Prix Final: Pairs Minerva Fabienne Hase and Nikita Volodin of Germany seized the 2023-24 Grand Prix Final gold in the Pairs discipline on Friday in Beijing, China. Italy’s Sara […]

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Wow! This proved to be an exciting event for the top three teams. And what a surprise from the Hungarians who were alternates!

What are your thoughts on the pairs' event? Which team do you feel has improved the most throughout this season?

 

[Skater Boy]

This was NOT a surprise to me. I saw the Hungarians as potential but I thought the Germans would win and might win worlds if the Japanese aren't ready to come back. Good on the Italians but for whatever reason separate from tech issues Deanna and Max just aren't appreciated by the judges. Look at the pcs for the Germans and they are farely new. They have so much room for higher socres but the judges seem to have plateaued with the Canadians. Despite the errors they did well but if they were the chosen ones I would expect to seepcs and grace like Brendan and Alexa who quite honestly are a step below the Russians who can't compete. Good on the medal winners here but they sadly are no where near the current top Russians who honestly are not seen like the pair greats from Russia's past or the best Chinese. While I think Germany and Italy are thrilled and you could tell Deanna was mad at herself they were only a few points out of gold not bad for a bit of a disastrous skate. The Germans are the team to beat - i called it I don't like any of these teams compared to the Russians in respect to speed, difficulty, amplitude but this is the current state of skating.

 

[noskates]

I thought this competition was underwhelming. Deanna and Maxime just didn't have it today. I don't like their music in the short or the free and feel both pieces are very difficult to relate to and are not interpretive. Maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on music but I just lost interest half-way through. I do think it's nice to see the Italian skating community rising up. With Matteo Guarise and his partner they have 3 top tier teams representing their county. Nationals there will be interesting.

 

[Skater Boy]

I think the Germans just need to keep developing. I think Deanna and Max really need to figure something out because the judges do not super like them. I see them more like Stolbova and Klimov. But she needs to amp it up. If they can't do the big tricks then they need to max out all their elements with perfection, speed, height and great amplitude

 

[Dreamer57]

This was NOT a surprise to me. I saw the Hungarians as potential but I thought the Germans would win and might win worlds if the Japanese aren't ready to come back. Good on the Italians but for whatever reason separate from tech issues Deanna and Max just aren't appreciated by the judges. Look at the pcs for the Germans and they are farely new. They have so much room for higher socres but the judges seem to have plateaued with the Canadians. Despite the errors they did well but if they were the chosen ones I would expect to seepcs and grace like Brendan and Alexa who quite honestly are a step below the Russians who can't compete. Good on the medal winners here but they sadly are no where near the current top Russians who honestly are not seen like the pair greats from Russia's past or the best Chinese. While I think Germany and Italy are thrilled and you could tell Deanna was mad at herself they were only a few points out of gold not bad for a bit of a disastrous skate. The Germans are the team to beat - i called it I don't like any of these teams compared to the Russians in respect to speed, difficulty, amplitude but this is the current state of skating.

If Deanna and Max were clean the judges would have rewarded them. They had quite a few mistakes in their free skate and the SP was only a couple of points difference across the podium spots. Their total score from skate canada is still the highest SB in the field this season.
I'm not too worried about them but they need to aim to win 4CC to build momentum. They seemed a bit nervous which I'm hoping will be helped by a welcoming home crowd at worlds in March.

A tough competition for Lia and Trennt. Hope they keep their heads up!

Credit to Minerva and Nikita for being the first pairs team to win GPF in their debut season!

 

[lariko]

Gutted for P/M, but super happy to see P/S hold their own (food luck to them in Euros, i assume M/B will also compete there?) and, of course, what an amazing reversal of fortune for Volodin with H/V winning the GPF!!! I am low key hoping it would pave the way out for a few more Russian men at least.

 

[ladyjane]

As usual I enjoyed the pairs event. Despite the lift error at the end, I like watching Lia and Trennt. They are doing so well! Rebecca and Fillippo are such storytellers and fun. I was pleased for the Hungarians. Happy to see Sara and Niccolo living up to expectations. Happy that Deanna and Maxime medalled although we had perhaps wanted more. Nikita and Minerva Fabienne are sublime. Sure, their SP was better, but still, fighting illness and still making the FS at such a level. Wow!

 

[skylark]

Lia and Trennt. I almost felt like this event was their "sophomore" event, where they may have dealt with a slight let-down from their exuberant, joyful skating and "beginner's enthusiasm" ever since teaming up. I think they dealt with it very well indeed, considering their comments afterward. I enjoy their Gladiator FS, and I still think Lia is a star.

Rebecca and Filippo. What a joy it is to watch them skate! Rebecca's smile is dazzling, and Filippo dazzles with his pure pairs partner vibe. I feel like they've changed, moved up a notch this year. Something has freed them to express more. Maybe it's confidence that's come with winning silver at Europeans. Looking at their competitive highlights (wiki), I notice that this is their 8th season together. I love to see skaters who are able to keep going, keep bringing it step by step. But to bring it back to today, I absolutely love how Rebecca and Filippo bring something extra to their technical skating. They're gifted musically, and they bring it. Couple weeks ago I watched their dracula skate back to back with Deanna and Max's, and I enjoyed Rebecca and Filippo's much more. It has attraction and seduction in it, which is drama, and not all angst and dread. JMO, tastes vary.

Maria and Alexii. Their technique is breathtaking. When I watched their SP, the thought raised in my head that there's something about Russian-trained skaters that teaches them to rise to their best when it counts. Not without notable exceptions (Kolyada for one instance). And although their FS didn't come to the same level, they kept performing, in their own way. Not with emotion, but with good energy.

Sara and Niccolo. What a revelation, to see them rise above their earlier performances at the GPs and equally to rise above the expectations and difficulty that being such leaders -- European champs, World medalists -- brought their way. I thoroughly enjoyed both their SP and their FS in this event. Previously, I'd joined others in wondering if repeating last season's FS would serve well. But today, I felt that they'd recaptured the emotion and wonder and surge that the program had last year. Seeing them skate it nearly flawlessly made me realize, well, it still works. I feel like all the excellence came from within them. It all makes for quite wonderful pairs skating.

Deanna and Max. I've admired and loved this team from the beginning; I was following them during the 2 years of only Canadian events. There's Deanna's incomparable carriage, which looks great with Max's. There's their excellent elements, their grit, their willingness to try something new (tho' I join the chorus of "what an ugly death spiral" of the front one). But this year, I've felt something is missing, and I think it's something more important than well-performed elements, something that comes from inside. YMMV, but I feel an absence, an emptiness of feeling. I think they can get it, develop it, if they feel they want something more than great technique. They have beauty, but it feels cold and even old, and the vampire music doesn't help. JMO.

Minerva Fabienne and Nikita. They are superb, glorious, mesmerizing. I've thought so ever since their first event. The artistry that they cultivate together is in their elements, in their glide, in their expression, their ease and flow, and their connection. I've re-watched their performances from this week; and especially in their SP, it's clear how often they look at each other during the skates, much more often than any of their other pairs in this event. When they make their connection thus visible to the audience, then the audience can share in it and feel it too; and of course, the judges are part of the audience. No matter how fixated fans may get on the numbers and the elements and the placements -- the best pairs teams have something deeper, something inner, something more. JMO.

 

[readernick]

Close competition. I find the winners to be a zero artistically but they have great elements and they are consistent. She's an amazing pairs girl. He's a solid partner. They just need some injury free time to develop something outside of the elements.

Personally, I think the Italians should be first I think they were comparatively slightly underscored in the SP. That's probably the result of their underperformance earlier in the season. If they had skated last or second to last in the SP, they would probably be in first place. More to offer artistically than the winners.

Deanna and Max offer the best overall package here but they made mistakes in both programs. I still think they are the team most likely to get gold/.silver at Worlds.

I say silver because if the Japanese come back strong from injury, I don't see any of these teams being able to beat them. They still lack a true competitor like K/F were last year. Some of these teams could develop into that competitor, but they aren't quite there yet.

 

[4everchan]

I think it was Deanna's and Max's to lose and they did lose it. Nobody really "won" the event. Mistakes all across the board.

I disagree with the comment made that "judges do not like them". As a matter of fact, looking at protocols is very revealing here. Judges gave them the highest PCS. When they performed an element well, they received stellar GOE, for instance on the first two lifts and the twist. So it's about popping an axel which is the two point difference here that could have given them the gold... The Salchows were not good either. THe throws as well.. So that's 4 mistakes and the final lift also lost a level and GOE.

When you add this all up plus the mistake in the SP, that they are only about two points away from winning the gold is revealing.

Also, let's not forget they will bring down the crowd in Montreal with their SP music and simply because they are locals.
I personally think they have the best two programs. I got bored with the Germans LP and though I like the ITalians Cinema Paradiso, it's getting old.

 

[Skater Boy]

Close competition. I find the winners to be a zero artistically but they have great elements and they are consistent. She's an amazing pairs girl. He's a solid partner. They just need some injury free time to develop something outside of the elements.

Personally, I think the Italians should be first I think they were comparatively slightly underscored in the SP. That's probably the result of their underperformance earlier in the season. If they had skated last or second to last in the SP, they would probably be in first place. More to offer artistically than the winners.

Deanna and Max offer the best overall package here but they made mistakes in both programs. I still think they are the team most likely to get gold/.silver at Worlds.

I say silver because if the Japanese come back strong from injury, I don't see any of these teams being able to beat them. They still lack a true competitor like K/F were last year. Some of these teams could develop into that competitor, but they aren't quite there yet.

I know no one probably agrees I don't think the judges will fully get behind Deanna and Max granted it will be in Canada and that might help. The judges are willing to reward the Germans and Italians moreso so I am going with them for world gold (Germans moreso) unless Japan comes back ready and able. Three solid teams in In Italy. BUT I am sad to say all these teams pale to the Russians and Chinese of yesteryear or even the Russians who are not competing this year/time Italy is making a case for itself in the team event. But I also note other than men without the Russians competing it really affects the team event and 3/4 events are missing the top tier. or at least top level teams in dance.

 

[4everchan]

I know no one probably agrees I don't think the judges will fully get behind Deanna and Max granted it will be in Canada and that might help. The judges are willing to reward the Germans and Italians moreso so I am going with them for world gold (Germans moreso) unless Japan comes back ready and able. Three solid teams in In Italy. BUT I am sad to say all these teams pale to the Russians and Chinese of yesteryear or even the Russians who are not competing this year/time Italy is making a case for itself in the team event. But I also note other than men without the Russians competing it really affects the team event and 3/4 events are missing the top tier. or at least top level teams in dance.

I don't agree with you because when looking at the protocols, it's easy to see that judges are simply rewarding the teams for what they did... The Italians had the best LP.. they won that segment. The Germans had the bed SP, they won that segment.
SD/D were close despite many many mistakes but still received high GOE and the highest PCS. The Germans got much lower PCS though they skated much cleaner.
Based on these facts, it's hard to agree on a divergent opinion.
The way I see it is that the judges here were simply rewarding teams for what they put on the ice. The Germans made the least impactful mistakes across both programs and won. Simple as that.

 

[skylark]

Nobody really "won" the event. Mistakes all across the board.

I disagree, sorry. When a skater or a team make the fewest mistakes and still score the highest with the current scoring system, then they WIN.

Look at any sport. Does a baseball, football, whateverball team "not really win" a game or a series because they made mistakes?

Minerva Fabienne and Nikita's WIN is all the more impressive because of the trials they had to cope with: Volodin's illness. Lack of training time. Jet lag. The fact that they hadn't even been able to do a run-through for a week or two -- since NHK I believe she said, but correct me if I'm wrong on that detail. Add to that that Deanna and Max were the favourites to win and had the advantage.

Hase/Volodin were brilliant, overcoming small errors to win the event.

 

[4everchan]

I disagree, sorry.

No need to be sorry if you disagree. That's all good. Different perspectives. Different tastes. Different opinions. All good. There are events where the winners have stellar performances. This wasn't one of them. It's not the same thing as saying the winners didn't deserve their victory. For pointers, I never said that But in my opinion, to think this event was well skated is putting one's head in the sand. The junior pairs winners, though they are not my cup of tea, did have a stellar performance across both programs, superior to any senior pair. Of course, they are "senior" themselves... but that's another story.

 

[Skater Boy]

I don't agree with you because when looking at the protocols, it's easy to see that judges are simply rewarding the teams for what they did... The Italians had the best LP.. they won that segment. The Germans had the bed SP, they won that segment.
SD/D were close despite many many mistakes but still received high GOE and the highest PCS. The Germans got much lower PCS though they skated much cleaner.
Based on these facts, it's hard to agree on a divergent opinion.
The way I see it is that the judges here were simply rewarding teams for what they put on the ice. The Germans made the least impactful mistakes across both programs and won. Simple as that.

What I mean is that I don't think looking at the body of work of the Canadians they are as well received as say the Germans and thus the German and Italians when skating well are more likely to win We have see top teams in the past make wins and be "held" up legitimately or not by pcs and goe's I still hope Deanna and Max will skate their best come worlds; i do like their programs better but they don't seem to be growing technically as skaters or even getting bigger and better/amplitude on their elements.

 

[skylark]

There are events where the winners have stellar performances. This wasn't one of them. It's not the same thing as saying the winners didn't deserve their victory. For pointers, I never said that

You said "No one really 'won' the event."

I'm letting go now.

 

[4everchan]

What I mean is that I don't think looking at the body of work of the Canadians they are as well received as say the Germans and thus the German and Italians when skating well are more likely to win We have see top teams in the past make wins and be "held" up legitimately or not by pcs and goe's I still hope Deanna and Max will skate their best come worlds; i do like their programs better but they don't seem to be growing technically as skaters or even getting bigger and better/amplitude on their elements.

They are growing. They increased their speed a lot. Their lifts are better than last year. Look at Deanna during the lifts... She is alive and flying high... not the case with all the pair women. They are upping the BV of SBS jumps too : last year they even did 2s...

 

[4everchan]

You said "No one really 'won' the event."

I'm letting go now.

"won" (emphasis on the ") is what i wrote to express my feeling about an event that wasn't greatly skated. I guess that could be confusing for some though my post is quite clear (for once lol)

 

[chuckm]

The one area where Deanna/Max need to work on is the throws. Deanna gets minimal amplitude and little rideout on the throws. The GOE scores on the throws are low, in the 1-3 range because of that.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

I thought the judging seemed pretty accurate, it reflected what the teams actually put out there.

The German team were very good but if Conti and Macii continue on this upward trajectory I can see them defending their European title. They just have that little extra bit of sparkle about them.

Shame Stellato Dudek and Deschamps couldn't recapture the brilliance of their SCI performance here. It seemed like the judges wanted to go with them but those technical issues were a big hindrance.