2023 Skate America: Ice Dance Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Chock and Bates win fourth Skate America gold

2023 Skate America: Ice Dance USA’s Madison Chock and Evan Bates won their fourth Skate America gold in Allen, Texas on Sunday. Canada’s Marjorie Lajoie and Zachary Lagha moved up a […]

www.goldenskate.com

I think we all new that Chock and Bates would take this! Their free dance was very clever, especially to me as I'm a big Pink Floyd fan

It was great to see Lajoie and Lagha move up and their FD is gorrrrrrgeous!

What did you take away for the Ice Dance event? Which RD was your favorite?

 

[theblade]

Now, I'm not saying that anyone else should do this. Nor make this a drinking game...

...but my family and I, for fits and giggles, ended up watching the entire Rhythm Dance portion while blaring Phil Collins' Sussudio. On repeat. *

It is a song that, shall we say, is not played in our home. We lived through the '80s and were into other genres of music.

That being said, we haven't laughed so hard in a long time. There wasn't a number that didn't synch up to the music - either live or during the slow-mo replay. It made the Koreans faster, the younger Czechs even more bombastic... you get the idea.

Who knew that Sussudio would be *the* pick for this RD season? Even if the song isn't your jam, it features essential '80s music production values - percussion, bass - and the horns!

If you think that coaches potentially dropped the ball on this RD year, you can override them at home with your own playlist.

*Except for the French team. Their number was unique and we enjoyed it as is.

 

[Ladskater]

While I'm a huge Pink Floyd fan, I preferred Lajoie and Lagha's FD program because it was exquisite. They just flowed as one across the ice to that beautiful music which I've never heard before. Many skaters have skated to Pink Floyd. It also looked like Evan Bates was a little wobbly on one of the lifts. Anyway, congrats to Marjorie and Zachary on their Silver medal at Skate America

 

[gsk8]

From the article:

"We already had this music in mind for a year in a half, but somehow it didn't happen last season," shared Bates. "As this year is the 50th anniversary of Pink Floyd's "The Dark Side of the Moon" album, it came back up. We wanted to tell a story with it, and we chose time. Time is a construct, and we want to break free from it. We absolutely love our new Free Dance!"

It automatically reminded me of an old program by Winkler and Lohse when they imitated a clock. Unless my long-term memory is fading and it was someone else?

 

[icewhite]

It was an event full of great ice dance teams. I thoroughly enjoyed many performances and it is difficult to say which free dance I loved the most.

Lopareva/Brissaud looked so much better, that is, there were small nuances which made especially their free dance a wonderful piece (at the start of the season I was not convinced by the Rachmaninoff). Their precision stood out and their programs have a lot of class.

Green/Parsons did well to ditch their RD, although I like Paula Abdul (it was Abdul they did before, right?) and this music now is not original, but it makes for a very good short program, taking into account they just changed it they are at a very high level with it. Their free is a bit more like their fabulous and outstanding free from two seasons ago, but still different enough - not quite reaching that high, but it is untriguing and in my eyes this rather modern, sensitive but mostly clean style fits them best. Their biggest weakness in my eyes is their tempo.

Lajoie/Lagha are not my favourite team, I feel there is still something lacking. Maybe some edgyness and precision in some moments. But they did very well in both RD and free, their free did a great job in taking the viewer with them in one dynamic flow.

The Taschlers have a pretty terrible RD that makes me desperately want them to get new choreographers or at least advisers. Of course one never knows the reason for choosing and developing certain programs as they are. Maybe there are some good reasons, but I fail to see them. It starts with the outfits, which should really not be part of the judging, but they are my biggest factor for suspecting they don't get the advice they need to make a really good program which does justice to their level. The choreo shows off their speed but is pretty one-dimensional. Their free is a lot better. It is still, in my eyes, not what they could do, but it is complex and emotional and tells a story which I felt strongly. If we are talking about them as athletes, the lifts are clearly their weakness. Unfortunately, with the heavy focus on lifts now, they are what they need to improve.

Now on to my point that I will repeat for the last time this season because I have done it enough now: Chock/Bates were blatantly overscored. Should they win the event? I don't know. With these different teams with very different strengths and weaknesses I find it hard to tell. None of them is perfect. But they are all very, very good. What I do know is that they should not have won by 16!!! points against L/L, and almost 20!!! points against L/B. It is outragious. That's not sport, that's a popularity contest. And the next time I hear how Madison Chock is the hottest/prettiest, how cute the relationship with Evan is or how they have waited for so long as justifications for their scores I will throw something against the wall. How is any of that relevant for the results of a sport competition???
Their short is fine, I am not really excited by most of the RDs this season. But their free shows their weaknesses very well: the relative lack of speed, her not skating, the posing around while not moving on the ice (at least not her, but often enough not even him).

I would likely have had L/B in first, then between LaLa and C/B for second, T/T 4th, G/P 5th. But one could definitely argue for other placings, especially if you take a closer look at the levels. But C/B ahead by miles is just plain wrong. What does ice dance still do at the Olympics if nobody even cares and just says "enjoy the show". Yes, it was still very beautiful, I know all of them are working very hard and they are all outstanding compared to normal skaters, and I wish I could just enjoy. But this is a farce.

If people disagree with me and educate me, I want to thank them in advance. All of this is just my personal opinion, and I am far from being an expert and I am absolutely willing to learn and change my mind. Just don't tell me how they deserve it because hotness and waiting.

 

[viennaskater]

Green/Parsons did well to ditch their RD, although I like Paula Abdul (it was Abdul they did before, right?) and this music now is not original, but it makes for a very good short program, taking into account they just changed it they are at a very high level with it. Their free is a bit more like their fabulous and outstanding free from two seasons ago, but still different enough - not quite reaching that high, but it is untriguing and in my eyes this rather modern, sensitive but mostly clean style fits them best. Their biggest weakness in my eyes is their tempo.


Now on to my point that I will repeat for the last time this season because I have done it enough now: Chock/Bates were blatantly overscored. Should they win the event? I don't know. With these different teams with very different strengths and weaknesses I find it hard to tell. None of them is perfect. But they are all very, very good. What I do know is that they should not have won by 16!!! points against L/L, and almost 20!!! points against L/B. It is outragious. That's not sport, that's a popularity contest. And the next time I hear how Madison Chock is the hottest/prettiest, how cute the relationship with Evan is or how they have waited for so long as justifications for their scores I will throw something against the wall. How is any of that relevant for the results of a sport competition???
Their short is fine, I am not really excited by most of the RDs this season. But their free shows their weaknesses very well: the relative lack of speed, her not skating, the posing around while not moving on the ice (at least not her, but often enough not even him).

I am with you about Green/Parsons. After that masterpiece FD two seasons ago, I was sorely disappointed by that dull Rhapsody in Blue last year. Good to see them do an FD which suits their style better.

About Chock/Bates: much as I admire their ability to come up with inspirational programs and costumes over the last few years (and I never used to like their programs in the distant past), I do see your point. Maybe it was a case of 'home-cooking' at Skate America, but let's see how things go in their next event. I like the concept of that FD, but it still needs a lot of fine-tuning and did not deserve such high scores.

'Oh, they've waited so long!' Well, most ice dance teams do. The only team I can think of who advanced unusually quickly was Papadakis/Cizeron (and rightly so, in my opinion). But that is rare.

 

[Ivana]

I really enjoyed the ice dance event, so many interesting programs even at the bottom of the field. Just my few ramblings...

My biggest issue was the over scoring of Chock/Bates, home advantage, but still. Should they have won? I'd say yes. Should they have won by nearly 16 points? Absolutely not. The programs have potential, but from my point of view both are very safe choices music wise and both are still raw especially the free dance where from the middle part I can only remember pose after pose and very little skating. There were a lot interesting ideas and by WC I'm sure it will all come together, but the execution is not there yet.

I saw Lajoie/Lagha in Bratislava and I'm sorry to say that I couldn't recall their programs after the event. But I loved what they showed here, especially their free skate was such a treat to watch and Zachary was smiling at the end, that means something.

Lopareva/Brissaud, I love how they choose two programs that just stand out from the rest. I remember seeing them 5 years ago and who would have thought at that time that one day they would be well deserved GP medalist, and I hope it's just the beginning for them.

Green/Parsons, returning to what suits them the best with the free skate. Really good choice after last years Rhapsody in blue.

I will bunch both the Czech teams together, I loved both of their free dances, not so much the rhythm dances. I hope they can figure out the issues with the choreographic step sequence as both of them got ! on the element.

Smart/Dieck, the free dance works great for them, the rhythm dance not so much IMO. I'm eager to see how they will progress in the future, as I liked both of them with their previous partners.

Harris/Chan, really like their free dance, but they somehow seem to be stagnating in the last months.

 

[lariko]

As someone who couldn't watch ice dance before I really came to enjoy it in the past two years. And i just e everyone, save for S/D and H/C. Not so crazy about G/P, though I really like their team

 

[labgoat]

From the article:

"We already had this music in mind for a year in a half, but somehow it didn't happen last season," shared Bates. "As this year is the 50th anniversary of Pink Floyd's "The Dark Side of the Moon" album, it came back up. We wanted to tell a story with it, and we chose time. Time is a construct, and we want to break free from it. We absolutely love our new Free Dance!"

It automatically reminded me of an old program by Winkler and Lohse when they imitated a clock. Unless my long-term memory is fading and it was someone else?

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

 

[gsk8]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

I think that's it, but the one I'm thinking about had different costumes. It's been decades.....

 

[labgoat]

I think that's it, but the one I'm thinking about had different costumes. It's been decades.....

I was looking for ones that had a clock on them, but they seem to have disappeared

 

[gsk8]

I also love Olivia Smart's bodysuit for the RD

 

[Seven Sisters]

I was looking for ones that had a clock on them, but they seem to have disappeared

I also tried to search, unsuccessfully, this morning, but the clock hands/time program I remember most vividly is Pechalat & Bourzat’s circa 2009/10. The opening of Chock & Bates’ effort, especially, is very, very similar to what Pechalat & Bourzat did.

 

[labgoat]

I also tried to search, unsuccessfully, this morning, but the clock hands/time program I remember most vividly is Pechelat & Bourzat’s circa 2009/10. The opening of Chock & Bates’ effort, especially, is very, very similar to what Pechelat & Bourzat did.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtu.be

Interesting that Evan was a competitor at this event with Emily Samuelson

 

[labgoat]

I was looking for ones that had a clock on them, but they seem to have disappeared

Found the one I think we remember...

Free Dance - 1999 Skate America International Figure Skating Championships (USA, ABC, Incomplete)

Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA - 1999 Skate America International, Ice Dancing, Free Dance - Commentators were Terry Gannon, and Susie Wynne.SKATERS (NATION...

youtu.be

 

[DancingCactus]

Since I don't usually watch the events before GP season starts, all of these programs were new to me. I haven't managed to watch the lower placed teams yet, but I gotta say, the top two rhythm dance already featured two 80s artists I would have hoped teams of this calibre would have avoided because they are soooo played out.

And please, if you do "Who wants yo live forever", someone better be wearing a kilt!

I love Pink Floyd and I love how they cut the music and I loved Madison's dress and some of her poses, and their lifts are amazing as usual. But I still think they were overscored.
Granted, the other pairs didn't blow me away. It'll be interesting to see C/B they will be scored against the other top skaters.

Have to watch the rest of the teams.

 

[labgoat]

Since I don't usually watch the events before GP season starts, all of these programs were new to me. I haven't managed to watch the lower placed teams yet, but I gotta say, the top two rhythm dance already featured two 80s artists I would have hoped teams of this calibre would have avoided because they are soooo played out.

And please, if you do "Who wants yo live forever", someone better be wearing a kilt!

I love Pink Floyd and I love how they cut the music and I loved Madison's dress and some of her poses, and their lifts are amazing as usual. But I still think they were overscored.
Granted, the other pairs didn't blow me away. It'll be interesting to see C/B they will be scored against the other top skaters.

Have to watch the rest of the teams.

Love your avatar - so pretty

 

[GoneWithTheWind]

It also looked like Evan Bates was a little wobbly on one of the lifts.

I enjoyed C/B's new FD but that straight line lift did worry me a lot. I think the +1.58 GOE awarded for it was generous, considering that Evan looked quite unstable underneath it.

I've seen a lot of comments online that say Madi spends a lot of the program being lifted, so I did an experiment. I timed the amount of time she spends in the air vs Lilah Fear (who's also received criticism for the same thing in the past) vs Charlene Guignard.

So, the amount of time the woman spends off the ice in their respective FD's, plus their chosen elements which require 'air time' and the time allowed for dance lifts (none of these teams received an extended lift deduction).

• Charlene: 23.13 seconds (Lombardia) - 1 combo lift, 1 stationary lift (max. time allowed for these total: 19 seconds) + choreo jumps
• Lilah: 26.56 seconds (Nebelhorn) - 1 combo lift, 1 stationary lift (max. time allowed for these total: 19 seconds)
• Madi: 45.77 seconds (SkAm) - 1 stationary lift, 1 rotational lift, 1 straight line lift (max. time allowed for these total: 21 seconds) + choreo jumps, choreo lift

ETA: please don't use this as an opening to hate on any of these teams. Obviously, some teams have strengths in lifts/aeriel elements, and some programs are more open to allowing that kind of choreo, eg: F/G's program theme maybe wouldn't work with lots of lifting, as they're portraying 2 boxers.

On the subject of lifts, I think L/L's are definitely improved, compared to a couple of seasons ago, and I do like their program.
A couple of minor things: I wish they would move on from the rotational lift (now used as a choreo lift) which has been in a number of their programs since at least 2018. And I hope that later in the season they don't need quite such a long set-up to the first lift.

 

[labgoat]

If you didn't watch the Exhibition, there is yet another variation on the race car theme used this year. See what Olivia & Tim did with it in the exhibition. By the way the Gala was really fun and the audience was very appreciative of all the skaters from all the countries. Some of the skaters who didn't have such a good competitive skate enjoyed their exhibitions and got some much needed love from the crowd.

 

[chuckm]

With all the complaints about Chock/Bates, let's consider that nearly all the other teams have had multiple outings of both their programs while C/B were performing their programs for the first time in actual competition. There was the same level of criticism against them last season, then as the season went on, they improved each time out and became World Champions.

And sorry to say, I don't much enjoy Lajoie/Lagha---there is far too much over-the-top mugging, and they never even look at one another as they go through the program. They are like two soloists who just happen to be on the ice at the same time. We get it---they are not into romantic programs, but please---why go through an entire program studiously avoiding even simple eye contact. At least acknowledge that your partner is there!

Also, in the RD, Lajoie / Lagha had some of the weakest elements:
Midline Step Sequence: Both got L1-worse than teams placing 3-7 in the RD
Partial Step Sequence P2. Teams placing 1 and 3 in the RD got L3 and Green/Parsons got L4.