2024-25 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 2 | Golden Skate

2024-25 Russian Women's Figure Skating

Jumping_Bean

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Jan 17, 2022
Will the ban be lifted any time near, though?
I think they will lift the ban in the Olympic season, so that on paper Russians and Belarussians will have a path to Olympic qualification (Nebelhorn Trophy) and the IOC can't reprimand the ISU for anything.

This is in line with what the FIG did - RUS & BLR were banned in 2022 & 2023, but allowed to return this year, where the artistic gymnasts could qualify via World Cup standings. That didn't work out for the rhythmic gymnasts though, because the European Gymnastics Union didn't allow them to compete at Euros, but the FIG could wash their hands of any fault for non-qualification.
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
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Aug 8, 2023
I think they will lift the ban in the Olympic season, so that on paper Russians and Belarussians will have a path to Olympic qualification (Nebelhorn Trophy) and the IOC can't reprimand the ISU for anything.

This is in line with what the FIG did - RUS & BLR were banned in 2022 & 2023, but allowed to return this year, where the artistic gymnasts could qualify via World Cup standings. That didn't work out for the rhythmic gymnasts though, because the European Gymnastics Union didn't allow them to compete at Euros, but the FIG could wash their hands of any fault for non-qualification.
I dont entirely understand. If the ISU unbans Russians what will then be barring their qualification? Why would they be barred from Nebelhorn? What about other events?
 

Jumping_Bean

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Jan 17, 2022
I dont entirely understand. If the ISU unbans Russians what will then be barring their qualification? Why would they be barred from Nebelhorn? What about other events?
I think you have it a bit turned around, I meant that the ISU will likely allow neutral athletes from Russia and Belarus to return to competition in the Olympic season exactly so that they have a chance at qualifying for the Olympics - on paper.

Why on paper? Well, because the Nebelhorn Trophy is not free for all to enter in the Olympic season and the hosting federation will have the right to make selections if the planned entry number is larger than the entry limit. Apart from that, I'm not sure about the visa situation - If Russians and Belarussians can't enter Germany due to lack of visa, then their chance of qualifying exists only on paper. Neither of these situations would be the fault of the ISU then though, and similar to the FIG, the IOC could not hold them accountable.

Now, why is the Nebelhorn Trophy important? Well, because it has been one of two Olympic qualification events in the last few Olympic cycles. I can't see them allowing the Russians/Belarussians back in time for the next World Championships, which is qualifying event No.1, so the qualifying event in the Olympic season will be their only option if allowed back in time. Simultaneously, this limits the number of Russian/Belarussian entries to one per discipline, and that only if they place high enough at Nebelhorn (not a problem for the women and pairs, probably, but possibly for the men and ice dancers).
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
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I think you have it a bit turned around, I meant that the ISU will likely allow neutral athletes from Russia and Belarus to return to competition in the Olympic season exactly so that they have a chance at qualifying for the Olympics - on paper.

Why on paper? Well, because the Nebelhorn Trophy is not free for all to enter in the Olympic season and the hosting federation will have the right to make selections if the planned entry number is larger than the entry limit. Apart from that, I'm not sure about the visa situation - If Russians and Belarussians can't enter Germany due to lack of visa, then their chance of qualifying exists only on paper. Neither of these situations would be the fault of the ISU then though, and similar to the FIG, the IOC could not hold them accountable.

Now, why is the Nebelhorn Trophy important? Well, because it has been one of two Olympic qualification events in the last few Olympic cycles. I can't see them allowing the Russians/Belarussians back in time for the next World Championships, which is qualifying event No.1, so the qualifying event in the Olympic season will be their only option if allowed back in time. Simultaneously, this limits the number of Russian/Belarussian entries to one per discipline, and that only if they place high enough at Nebelhorn (not a problem for the women and pairs, probably, but possibly for the men and ice dancers).
I didnt know about the entry restrictions with Nebelhorn, thats where I was confused. I cant imagine a sports Visa will be an issue for athletes of that caliber but who really knows. I do see the entry limit as an issue though. Can the fed just choose whoever in that case? Surely they must have a system for determining the entries.

If the entry situation seems so dire for Russia though then I can see them letting their elite athletes go much easier. I really hope a few can escape the prison.
 
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AlexBreeze

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May 27, 2021
Country
Russia
I'm trying to figure out if Titova has Armenian family or Plushenko has some sort of connections? If the latter then there are many interesting opportunities.
It has been known for quite some time that Armenia is trying to create a national team like Georgia did.

Titova, by the way, can't compete for Armenia yet. She needs permission from the ISU, for which she must either reside in the country or have a citizenship of the country (which she does not have yet).
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
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It has been known for quite some time that Armenia is trying to create a national team similar to what Georgia did.

Titova, by the way, can't compete for Armenia yet. She needs permission from the ISU, for which she must either reside in the country or have a citizenship of the country (which she does not have yet).
The official claim is that she has a "sports citizenship". Is that in some way different from what ISU requires? Google is showing me that there is no separate kind of citizenship for "sport".

It does seem though like journalists jumped the gun on this story, Armenia's head of federation said this is not confirmed yet, but other journalistic sources have countered that claim and double down that it is confirmed? Confusing.

Do you know anything about Akateva and Georgia or is this some cruel elaborate troll in the telegram community?
 

AlexBreeze

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May 27, 2021
Country
Russia
The official claim is that she has a "sports citizenship". Is that in some way different from what ISU requires? Google is showing me that there is no separate kind of citizenship for "sport".
This is just a term in the Russian language that has no meaning from a legal point of view. It refers to a country an athlete represents, but it is in no way a citizenship.

ISU rule on this: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/30179-isu-communication-2526/file

Although they seem to have solved the citizenship issue in a day haha https://rsport.ria.ru/20240528/titova-1948938029.html

Do you know anything about Akateva and Georgia or is this some cruel elaborate troll in the telegram community?
Some people believe she was faking the injury to miss the season. I find that silly and unreasonable. By the way, she's in the reserve of national team judging by the federation's press conference, so no country changes. Zhilina was also included.
 
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thatdarncat

On the Ice
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Sep 22, 2022
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United-Kingdom
I am surprised the Rus Fed are releasing so many skaters, it seems unfair on the top skaters left in Russia, as they don't have the chance to switch and compete internationally. With some Russian skaters getting around the ban by switching countries they should just lift the ban on Russians in international competition.
 

Mathematician

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I am surprised the Rus Fed are releasing so many skaters, it seems unfair on the top skaters left in Russia, as they don't have the chance to switch and compete internationally. With some Russian skaters getting around the ban by switching countries they should just lift the ban on Russians in international competition.
Again there is no reason for ISU to unban Russians.

Russia should just cut their losses and release their skaters on request. They will get the implicit glory for any OGM anyways. Not like Georgia would be parading if Akateva "brought home" a medal. But instead they are posturing by playing with the careers of top athletes. The chances of them finishing with a winning position here are extremely low. If they fold and allow transfers they will have 3 places at Olympics and likely sweep indirectly, but alas they're coin-flipping for a slight chance at 1 place to fake strength where there is none. They are fooling literally nobody. Its sad and selfish but entirely expected from any government of course. ISU is not to blame here.
 

lariko

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Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I am surprised the Rus Fed are releasing so many skaters, it seems unfair on the top skaters left in Russia, as they don't have the chance to switch and compete internationally. With some Russian skaters getting around the ban by switching countries they should just lift the ban on Russians in international competition.
Honestly, it's for the best. The athlets who are switching would normally not be allowed to compete internationally, so if and when the ban is lifted, we will have a better representation of Russian talent pool than before. One thing I hope to see though in the next two years, is allowing junior team to compete in juniors.
 

JeanA

Rinkside
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Jan 13, 2024
I don't understand why Russia doesn't release ALL their top skaters. Petrosyan to Armenia, Akatyeva to Georgia, Muravyova to Azerbaijan, Zhilina to wherever, and so forth. All with the understanding that they can return to Russia immediately upon the lifting of the ban. It would be good for the sport to have all the talented Russian skaters at top competitions, maybe not so good for the rest of the world though.
 

Jumping_Bean

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Joined
Jan 17, 2022
can return to Russia immediately upon the lifting of the ban
They can't. The ISU mandates one year away from international competitions to start competing for another country.

Either way, once skaters are out of RusFed's control, there's no reason to believe they'll return to it - Why would they want to be competing for one spot at Euros and Worlds (in the first season Russia is allowed back) against a large number of skaters if they might not even have a single rival for those spots in their new country?
 
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TallyT

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Apr 23, 2018
Country
Australia
They can't. The ISU mandates one year away from international competitions to start competing for another country.
Which would mean that if RusFed released all top skaters, when and if they were readmitted... they would have none, and theirs would either be competing against them or sitting idle for that year. And if the ISU then unbanned too close for them to go back for Olympic qualifications.... :rolleye:

Plus, domestic competitions (including RusNats) would look really weak to the domestic audience, who are unlikely to see how their skaters burnishing other country's medal tallies is somehow good for them.

TPTB, remember, don't give a damn about the skaters only the medals going - officially - to Russia.
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
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Plus, domestic competitions (including RusNats) would look really weak to the domestic audience
An obvious fact I somehow earlier failed to realize... The stars wouldn't be eligible for Nats anymore! This is a kill-shot no doubt and Russia has no choice but to double down on the schism. There is no other viable long-play.

So one of Akateva or Petrosian necessarily will not be at the Olympics... Insane.
 
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lariko

Medalist
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Jan 31, 2019
Country
Canada
I don't understand why Russia doesn't release ALL their top skaters. Petrosyan to Armenia, Akatyeva to Georgia, Muravyova to Azerbaijan, Zhilina to wherever, and so forth. All with the understanding that they can return to Russia immediately upon the lifting of the ban. It would be good for the sport to have all the talented Russian skaters at top competitions, maybe not so good for the rest of the world though.
Why should they? It is important to them to maintain tight control on top talent to keep internal competitom on international-ready level. After some waffling, they came up with more-or-less reasonable solution to allow skaters with dual or tripple citizenship to transfer out to the Feds who are came shopping. There are certainly strong incentives for the top skaters to stay, particulary those with high level of achievement, even though specifically in Petrosyan's case, I had been scraping nails on glass for years.

Some of them might be chaffing in the serf theater, but we may never know.

The end game is to keep the base of the pyramid wide enough so that those who would be at the top, will be as good as they were in 2022 relative to world level. The next Olympics is not the last. And if it's the last, well, then nobody goes anyway.
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
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@AlexBreeze when about do tickets usually go live for Nats? So I know to stay en garde for a good seat... ;) Some time after test skates? Also where should I keep an eye on for the announcement not to miss the timing?
 

AlexBreeze

Record Breaker
Joined
May 27, 2021
Country
Russia
@AlexBreeze when about do tickets usually go live for Nats?
August to October. Depends on the organisers in a particular city. There have never been Nationals in Omsk before, so hard to say. I think September-October.

Also where should I keep an eye on for the announcement not to miss the timing?
Official Fed's page: https://t.me/ruskating
Sometimes this channel has earlier info about the tickets: https://t.me/fun_sector

I also could try to post it in Nationals thread and tag you.
 

Mathematician

Pilgrim on a long journey
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Aug 8, 2023
I also could try to post it in Nationals thread and tag you.
I'll try to keep up with it myself but if its no problem then you can also definitely let me know. Thanks so much for all the info brother you are always a huge help to all Russian figure skating supporters here. :thank::cheer2:ā¤ļø
 
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