2024 CS Nebelhorn Pairs Free Skate | Page 6 | Golden Skate

2024 CS Nebelhorn Pairs Free Skate

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Unpopular opinion: Deanna's free is better than Minerva's.
Is either good? Deanna/Max are better performers IMHO and Hase/ Volodin have better pair elements IMHO but I wasn't impressed with either program. Great pair teams but pretty boring programs. I love pairs and I like all the teams here but none of the teams have made me love their free skates yet. I hope that will change by the end of the year.
 

Dreamer57

Record Breaker
Joined
May 20, 2018
Miniki have clarified the music issue with the first 2 mins of their free program on instagram (so if you didn't like it a lot, this might improve):

Lets talk about the music we used for our first 5 elements in the free program. 😊

Due to the recent rule changes regarding the music selection, we were forced to change our first 2 min of the program just 2 days prior to the competition. We’re well aware that the beginning of our program might sound (and look) a little strange. We’re working on it and we’ll sort it out before our first Grand Prix assignment. We’re thankful for the great support from the skating community throughout the last couple of day. It was, even beside the stress a wonderful competition and we enjoyed it a lot.
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
ok.. i have watched both Deanna and Max and Miniki's LPs

I am a bit laughing in my beard considering that DSD got some flack in this thread for their ocean program being boring and generic... and Miniki got some praise (not that much but still some) for theirs.

Let me be clear : both programs are equivalent as they do not have a strong and defining narrative. One of them has 5 seconds of annoying bubble sounds the other one has a minute of Vivaldi on steroids that made my ears bleed :)

Miniki are way ahead everyone when it comes to SBS jumps. They look so easy for them and that's why they are on top and that's why they probably could be favourites to win many more events.

Lifts : i prefered DSD's lifts by far... the first lift of Miniki was not attractive at all in my opinion.

Throws, Deanna gets flack for bending over on the throw reception. Minerva did the same on her second throw.

Death spirals : Deanna's position is much better.

Choreo sequence : both are not that great.

In the end, the programs are both a tad uninspiring and the winners are the ones able to jump their SBS properly. However, I am far from agreeing that Deanna and Max have awful programs this year... :) I don't like their SP... I think I liked the LP. :)

I didn't look for Ellie and Danny's LP : I didn't want to watch 5 falls in one program getting high PCS nevertheless.

If Trennt and Lia's LP shows up, I will certainly watch it.

I know we are commenting live in competition threads, and I am not as I wasn't available to watch this live... and when doing so, we all get dramatic... (including myself) but looking at Deanna and Max's program, I am not as worried as some posters who were saying that the program would never be good enough to win them another title.

The team that will win the WC will be the team landing their jumps and throws. That's all :)
I am anxious to see Lia and Trennt's LP. I've heard it's quite good!
 

saine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 11, 2023
Country
Canada
I think I found the new rule, it's in the announcements for some of the competitions this season. From the Skate Canada International 2024 announcement:

ISU Members/Skaters are reminded to in order for them to use music to accompany their routines, the following ‘Music Accompaniment’ rights/ licenses are required:

● the right to edit or adapt music into a mix, if more than one song is being used.
● the right to set choreography to the music, often referred to as a ‘Grand Right’, which is the right to perform musical compositions and recordings within the context of a "dramatic work” or choreography.
● the right to create any copies of the music that may be needed for training and competition purposes, also known as the ‘mechanical rights’.

In order for a music to be fully cleared for these uses, these rights need to be cleared for each and every track used in each mix that contains a license (backed by a warranty and legal indemnity) for appropriate territory(s) that covers both the master rights of the recording artist and the publishing rights of each individual writer and composer of the track.

And about clearance:
There are a number of ways in which ISU Members and their Skaters can legally use or create a music mix to accompany your routine/performance:
1. For easy compliance with the above-mentioned requirements, it is recommended to use commercially released or production music from the ISU approved licensing provider, ISU. ClicknClear.com. Subject to the music being available on the ClicknClear platform for the country where it will be used, it can be licensed instantly. Skaters/Members can access ClicknClear directly through the ISU Portal under the music tab.

2. Use completely original music (specially commissioned) written and/or recorded by a composer and/or artist. If you do this, please ensure you have contractually obtained the relevant rights required. ClicknClear’s License Verification System has an online form that your composer/artist can use to confirm the rights they have granted you.

3. Use music out of copyright (otherwise known as music in the public domain). To be noted that the duration of copyright varies in each country so ISU Members MUST check their local copyright law.

4. Secure a license directly from the owners of the music the Skaters would like to use. In some cases, ClicknClear may be able to assist in the clearance of music not currently available on the ClicknClear 2024 Skate Canada International, Halifax/NS, Canada, 25.-27.10.2024 platform. However, please note this route will be significantly more expensive, may take significant time, and there is no guarantee of a positive outcome.

The titles, composers and orchestras of the music to be used for the Short Program and Free Skating Program for Single, for the Rhythm and Free Dance Program for Ice Dance and for the Exhibition must all be entered, in detail, by the ISU Member or the Skater(s) on the dedicated ISU platform or through ClicknClear.

If music information is not complete and/or the music is not provided, accreditation will not be given.
It wasn't in the announcement for last year's SCI. It also showed up in the 4CC 2025 announcement and JGP Czech Skate announcement when I searched for ClicknClear. However, I checked and it is not in the Nebelhorn Trophy announcement for this year. It also wasn't in the announcement for Tallinn Trophy.
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
now i wonder if this new ISU rule has been put in place to reduce the problems with streaming and online viewing etc.


Back to the pairs topic. I just rewatched Deanna and Max, and the LP is a good program. They also seem to love skating to it. They are smiling the whole way. I think it will get better and better as the season progresses. Of course, it's very different from the high energy/ high emotion programs we got from them last year but they are able to show a style that is softer yet flowing. I like it.
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
I think it is remarkable that despite 5 falls in the middle of the program, Kam and O'Shea managed to get very good technical marks for their remaining elements. I would like to see the performance - not to see the falls- but to see for myself their resilience.
 

DemTuppesSeine

This is Deanna's world and I'm happy to live in it
Medalist
Joined
Jul 15, 2024
Country
Germany
After the fall on their SBS jumps I thought it was over, but they managed to overcome their mistakes and did quite well in the second half, including Ellie landing a throw. Here's a video:
 

TontoK

Hot Tonto
Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Country
United-States
I think it is remarkable that despite 5 falls in the middle of the program, Kam and O'Shea managed to get very good technical marks for their remaining elements. I would like to see the performance - not to see the falls- but to see for myself their resilience.

The first half of the program was a disaster. There's no getting around that.

The second half was excellent. Good for them for not giving up when they could have.

I'm both intrigued by what could be and demoralized at what I saw. This isn't a team I follow closely, or even particularly root for. I'm certainly willing, but they've got to show me something. Which I admit they did to some extent, in the SP.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I watched Deanna and Max's FS. I thought it was pretty good too. I like the contrast from last year's Vampire FS. She has incredible determination. I watch her much more than him. Don't like their SP, but I don't like Miniki's SP that much either.

Not sure what to say about the Americans yet. Still too early in the season with too many technical errors right now. Hopefully, both will be better by Skate America.
Ellie & Danny skated a superb sp. Ellie had to fastrack learning pairs triple jump elements when she partnered with Danny, as she had been a junior singles skater who had recently switched to pairs and thus was only beginning to learn the pairs triple throws, triple twist, and sbs triples. She has come far in a short time. Plus, she and Danny have a lovely aesthetic quality to their skating.

Clearly, they made great progress in the off-season with Ellie trying to solidify the triple throws. She had figured out some of the sbs triple jumps by the end of last season. They are so good on everything else, so the key is gaining competitive consistency on the jump elements, which she is actually doing well in training practices. The fall on the first throw in the free skate appeared to rattle them. It is always difficult to maintain calm while trying to get ready for the next element after a fall, especially with the need to get up quickly and stay in sync with the music. That's the breaks, but at least neither hurt themselves. Ellie managing to land the second throw was exemplary under those circumstances. To their advantage, they have good music and choreo, and lovely costumes.
 

BlissfulSynergy

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Country
Olympics
I think Ellie & Danny had the best music in the sp of the top three teams. Deanna & Max have okay sp music, but not as sharp and dynamic as their last season's short program. In the fp, it was very noticeable how far apart D&M are on their sbs jumps. They can stand to tweak that weakness. Their fp is softer and sweeter than the vampire theme, but well skated.

I really like all three podium winners in pairs at Nebelhorn. And I was happy to see how well-skated this early season event was for pairs. It's nice to see the wonderful progress of the British and Spanish teams, too! Lia & Trennt also look very settled in as partners and crisp in their execution. I like their music and costume choices.

Hase/Volodin are looking precise, more comfortable and confident in their second season. They present a classic look on the ice, which judges clearly love. Kudos to them for their progress from last season. Their music choices are good, but not outstanding. I think their bluesy sp has a James/Ciprés 'Earned It' feel in its theme, movement pattern, and overall appeal. I was a bit more drawn to H/V's free skate. I found the below pre-Nebelhorn video interview in which 'MinNiki' describe the story ideas behind their programs, and how and why they made their music choices. Enjoy!

 
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skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
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Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
I didn't look for Ellie and Danny's LP : I didn't want to watch 5 falls in one program getting high PCS nevertheless.
I get your point and understand your objection ... but Ellie and Danny really did something spectacular in the last half of the program. With sheer force of will, they overcame the first half. Not just with the elements ... they performed beautifully, they skated with smiles for the last 10 or 20 seconds. It was very impressive. I saw it (only today, the Wednesday after) without knowing ahead of time what happened; I was glad I neither checked the scores beforehand nor read the discussion.

I'm not even particularly Ellie and Danny's fan. My favorites are Minerva and Nikita, so I'm happy with the Nebelhorn result. I think they're not just technically great; to me they exemplify the most well-rounded of pairs, with attention, sensitivity and skill to all of the factors in pairs skating. With the rule changes in pairs, there's more room for emotional depth and musical expression than there was a few years ago, so I'm happy. :)
 

4everchan

Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 7, 2015
Country
Martinique
I get your point and understand your objection ... but Ellie and Danny really did something spectacular in the last half of the program. With sheer force of will, they overcame the first half. Not just with the elements ... they performed beautifully, they skated with smiles for the last 10 or 20 seconds. It was very impressive. I saw it (only today, the Wednesday after) without knowing ahead of time what happened; I was glad I neither checked the scores beforehand nor read the discussion.

I'm not even particularly Ellie and Danny's fan. My favorites are Minerva and Nikita, so I'm happy with the Nebelhorn result. I think they're not just technically great; to me they exemplify the most well-rounded of pairs, with attention, sensitivity and skill to all of the factors in pairs skating. With the rule changes in pairs, there's more room for emotional depth and musical expression than there was a few years ago, so I'm happy. :)
Perception varies :

I agree that Ellie and Danny did better in the second half but I feel they were given a bronze medal anyways. For me, there more than enough major disruptions in the program to deserve much lower PCS.

MIiniki are not my favourites but I recognize they have very strong elements and beautiful, elegant lines.

I didn't like their first lift. I also didn't really like the program at all. Not my cup of tea. They deserve better. At the same time, they have explained that there were issues with their music so I am giving them a pass for now. I don't like when teams use baroque music the way they did it... so for me, it will be a hard sell. Of course, if they land everything, they will be hard to beat.

I think my favourite program was Lia and Trennt's tango. When I heard they were doing a tango, I was like.. oh ... not again.. but this one is worth watching and rewatching. Some issues with a couple landings, the twist was better in the free and the lifts have improved a lot. I wish them a great season
 

skylark

Gazing at a Glorious Great Lakes sunset
Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Country
United-States
Danny and Ellie were inspiring that day. That's all I'm saying. It was like mind over matter, like pure emotion over simple counting of elements and measuring stuff. Watching them without preconception was ... to me ... to be carried away by the performance combined with athletic talent. Always a game changer!

And I felt the same way, even more so, by Minerva and Nikita. Just carried away!

Nebelhorn was a preview of an exciting pairs year!
 

slider11

Medalist
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Danny and Ellie were inspiring that day. That's all I'm saying. It was like mind over matter, like pure emotion over simple counting of elements and measuring stuff. Watching them without preconception was ... to me ... to be carried away by the performance combined with athletic talent. Always a game changer!

And I felt the same way, even more so, by Minerva and Nikita. Just carried away!

Nebelhorn was a preview of an exciting pairs year!
I agree! Ellie and Danny started strong, had disasters in the middle and ended their FS beautifully. I think this is a sign of a championship team! Ellie seems to be gaining in technical pair skills and mirroring Danny's confidence and determination. I like it!
 

DemTuppesSeine

This is Deanna's world and I'm happy to live in it
Medalist
Joined
Jul 15, 2024
Country
Germany
I'm slowly putting my photos online. Here are the ones of the medal ceremony - Ellie and Danny and Deanna and Max:




In most cases it's more than just one post since X only allows four pics per post and I took way more than that 😁
 
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