Thank you. That makes sense.
2025 Four Continents Men's Short Program
- Thread starter dorispulaski
- Start date
I am going to quote Roman Sadovsky after he won Nationals:
They already know, more people saying that they suck isn't being honest. It's kicking people who are trying while they're down.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2018
Eh, I was thinking more about kicking the people around them that let the situation come into this point, but I'm not gonna mince words about their competitive ability right now. The best Canada has to offer in men right now kinda sucks from an international competitive standpoint.
I'm over the attitude that people think it's acceptable to talk about Canadian men this way. It's just being mean at this point, there's no honesty in it whatever people say.
It only hurts the skaters to make an easy joke at their expense. They're well aware of what their abilities are, and describing the competitive level of people competing at this level as 'kinda sucks' is really unnecessary. They know. It's not mincing words, it's being mindful that there are human beings on the other side of the screen.
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
I love Darían. Been a fan since…2019?I really enjoyed Darian Kaptich, but he needs better choreography/choreographers.
I'm beyond thrilled for Jimmy Ma.
My fiance did himself proud.
I get what you're saying. I love Roman, but somehow I feel he hasn't got the confidence, you know? Maybe it's because he has been kicked down by all the media and FS fans and stuff...
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2022
I think another significant difference of Europeans and 4CC is the depth of field of the countries involved. No European country (other than Russia) has enough depth atm to warrant different teams for Europeans and Worlds.
I personally have no issues with top skaters declining to go to 4CC or Europeans. In a field with so much depth like Japan and US, it's actually nice to see 4-6 ranked skaters getting a chance to compete in an ISU Championship. Yes, even when the Russians competed at Europeans, I would actually prefer to see their "second tier" skaters going there. So many good skaters not having the chance at a big stage.
And coming from such depth, these so-called "second tier" skaters can still podium if not win the competition. I understand this might make the competition less exciting for some people, and you don't have to agree with me
Yuma and Kaori both declined 4CC this season - I think mainly cause they have won 4CC in the past, they both went to AWG a week before, and they wanted to free up a slot for "second tier" skaters to have a go. They weren't being coddled and I don't think it's disrespectful at all.
I personally have no issues with top skaters declining to go to 4CC or Europeans. In a field with so much depth like Japan and US, it's actually nice to see 4-6 ranked skaters getting a chance to compete in an ISU Championship. Yes, even when the Russians competed at Europeans, I would actually prefer to see their "second tier" skaters going there. So many good skaters not having the chance at a big stage.
And coming from such depth, these so-called "second tier" skaters can still podium if not win the competition. I understand this might make the competition less exciting for some people, and you don't have to agree with me
Yuma and Kaori both declined 4CC this season - I think mainly cause they have won 4CC in the past, they both went to AWG a week before, and they wanted to free up a slot for "second tier" skaters to have a go. They weren't being coddled and I don't think it's disrespectful at all.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2018
And when top skaters choose to go to 4CC, the fans of the other skaters complain that JSF is not distributing the slots fairly to everyone, LOL.
Ouch, it really hurts.Camden is the president of the United States of Cacti
Ilia has never gone to 4CC. He didn't even go when it was in the US in 2023, and he could have used a little more international experience at the time. I'll be disappointed if he never shows up for 4CCs during his career. It's one title his mother has that he may never will. Even Nathan Chen went his very first year. He won and never came back, but at least he came once!
Ilia seems to have permanently replaced 4CCs with a 10-day tour in Switzerland, which yes, it's probably more fun, there's decent money, and the crowds are bigger, but it does send a message that he does not care for technically the biggest competition (in terms of ranking points) after Worlds. He says things about needing time to cool off after Nationals and re-charge for Worlds, but there's a pretty big competition happening next year in February, so he better get used to the idea of competing one month after Nationals. The other top US competitors who are skipping this year should too. It'll be interesting to see how they all handle the shift in training schedule next year. Last year though, the immediate turnaround between the US Nationals and 4CCs and the location/time difference was horrendous. I don't blame anyone for skipping last year.
But outside of singles, US and Canada ice dance and pairs tend to take this competition seriously, and the top teams tend to show up.
Hmmm...my thoughts exactly.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2018
That's exactly it: some top skaters are choosing whether to go or not, based on their own strategies. And those top skaters have gone on to be World champions on the same season, which puts a dent to the theory of " 'big' competitions is the best way of training" , because, well clearly these people managed to win Worlds without having to train through 4CC. If anything, they may have a better chance to win Worlds without doing 4CC.
In Ilia's case, he's choosing shows. Not exactly a new concept (Shoma Uno chose shows + Challenge Cup and declined his 4CC assignment in 2020 after 5 years of participation), but Ilia's a notable case because he has never done and/or won 4CC before.
But also this phenomenon is strictly singles only, current Pairs and Ice Dance retains their A Team.
In Ilia's case, he's choosing shows. Not exactly a new concept (Shoma Uno chose shows + Challenge Cup and declined his 4CC assignment in 2020 after 5 years of participation), but Ilia's a notable case because he has never done and/or won 4CC before.
But also this phenomenon is strictly singles only, current Pairs and Ice Dance retains their A Team.
Can they give him an appearance fee to show up at 4CCs? 
Lol, incentivize him. Maybe even cut his agent a commission fee. That'll really help.
I laugh though at arguably the sport's biggest star completely disregarding ISU and this competition, and being like, "Nope, going for my annual vacation and tour afterparties in the Swiss Alps instead, byeee."
Lol, incentivize him. Maybe even cut his agent a commission fee. That'll really help.I laugh though at arguably the sport's biggest star completely disregarding ISU and this competition, and being like, "Nope, going for my annual vacation and tour afterparties in the Swiss Alps instead, byeee."
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2018
It can also be that Ilia is making the point that hey, he needs some money so he's gonna take the more lucrative payment of ice shows instead, thanks. Which is a good point that it's not easy to fund this sport.
It's interesting because the reason we can scrutinize Ilia as opposed to other people who skipped 4CC before is the B Team of USA is.... what it is (and their current second best male skater also withdrew while the third best is off somewhere doing shows lol, so this is basically the C Team) and also he's clearly doing shows.
Nathan's skipped it multiple times but he has the good manners to like, not being seen doing shows (probably because he has his studies). Shoma's skipped it before but by 2022 and 2023 Japan has enough good male skaters that if Shoma actually did 4CC, he'll get attacked for monopolizing the assignments (even though that's his right as National champion), LOL.
It's interesting because the reason we can scrutinize Ilia as opposed to other people who skipped 4CC before is the B Team of USA is.... what it is (and their current second best male skater also withdrew while the third best is off somewhere doing shows lol, so this is basically the C Team) and also he's clearly doing shows.
Nathan's skipped it multiple times but he has the good manners to like, not being seen doing shows (probably because he has his studies). Shoma's skipped it before but by 2022 and 2023 Japan has enough good male skaters that if Shoma actually did 4CC, he'll get attacked for monopolizing the assignments (even though that's his right as National champion), LOL.
Last edited:
I agree - he was a total sweetheart in Sheffield - that was when I first became a fan of his. Hope he stays on the podium at this event.Not able to watch the competition unfortunately, but very pleased to see Jimmy Ma in second place, he was an absolute sweetheart at the Grand Prix in Sheffield. Wishing him good luck in the free program
Yes, it's laughable isn't it! Athletes dissing the second most important competition of the year.Can they give him an appearance fee to show up at 4CCs?
I laugh though at arguably the sport's biggest star completely disregarding ISU and this competition, and being like, "Nope, going for my annual vacation and tour afterparties in the Swiss Alps instead, byeee."
You don't see that in other sports. I follow most winter sports, but you never see a downhill alpine skier going down the city streets for money, or an biathlete shooting targets in the town square, or an icehockey player showing off his goal making qualities in front of an audience.
I know the 'show' aspect of figure skating is important and there is money do be made in it, and many fans only love this aspect, but it is also making the sport look ridiculous compared to other sports.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
I am anything but a fan of Ilia Malinin, but what I said about Camden, that he has the right to make his own decisions and live by them, applies to other skaters too and if any of them think 4CC is 'beneath' them and there's more profit and less work in "with a 10-day tour in Switzerland" as @cailuj365 put it (actually it pisses me off something serious when skaters do treat shows as a paid holiday and don't put just as much work into giving value to those audiences as competition ones, but again it is what it is and no, I am not pointing specific fingers at him or anyone else) that is the decisions they can choose.
And remember, a lot of the very top skaters, the Olympic medallists, unblushingly skip the Worlds after the Olympics so it's not just this competition that sees some snubbing.
And remember, a lot of the very top skaters, the Olympic medallists, unblushingly skip the Worlds after the Olympics so it's not just this competition that sees some snubbing.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
No, but a lot of them if they are good and mediagenic enough pick up sponsors and contracts and too often appear on our screens doing cringeworthy ads for a jawdropping and sometimes embarrassing range of products. That is nothing new.......
OK, at this point, I disagree. Skaters doing shows makes the sport look ridiculous? More like it's an integral part of a performance sport. I don't think Ilia is intentionally dissing anyone, but 4CCs is just lower on his priorities. 4CCs is the second most important competition only by ranking points, but ranking points affect what, short program starting order? In singles, SP starting order plays a part for PCS judging for unknown skaters, but good technical elements, like a flawless triple axel or quad toe, will affect their scores a lot more by the time the competition ends. For skaters with known reputations, starting order starts to matter less and less. If ISU wants to make 4CCs more attractive for top stars who need to travel for 20-24 hours to get to the competition for ranking points they don't need, they should offer more money - I'm not actually joking about that.
While I "laugh" at Ilia making these decisions and faux-clutch my chest ("Nathan would never") at him sometimes, I do it all in jest, and I think he's fantastic. I'd like to see him do 4CC one day, but he and other athletes can do what they want if they feel that it's the best decision for them. If anything, I'm kind of impressed that an active US skater is being invited to European shows and touring in more than just N. America and Japan (same with Jason). It's good to go around different markets. Plus, it's not like he's phoning it in. He's doing his SP steps/choreo and doing at least a few triple axels every night (sometimes six in a row for funsies), and the active skaters do more intense training during their non-show times.
Also, every sport has their "exhibition" type events. Sports is entertainment. I'm a golf fan, and I just watched major pro golfers hit into a screen for their new golf league endeavor. It looked weird, but I appreciate that they're trying to innovate in a post-Tiger era. For a while, we had huge names and champions in golf miss prestigious majors (WAY more prestigious than 4CCs will ever be) so they could dink around in LIV and earn extreme amounts of cash. PGA was beside themselves and tried to ban these players from the tour and had Rory McIlroy go up there talk about integrity and tradition of the sport, and then everyone realized they were being stupid and now PGA and LIV are merged. Slam dunk contests, those football games where the players try to flip into a mat while they catch the ball, exhibition doubles tennis matches where the players fool around -- if a sport hasn't found a way to provide entertainment beyond their traditional competitions, it's because they don't have the money or infrastructure to do so. You should pitch your ideas to the alpine skiing and biathlete federations. It would broaden their reach. I also follow swimming, and half of the top swimmers don't bother showing up to the short course World Championships or even long course World Championships some times.
Similar threads
