59th ISU Congress: Watch and Discuss

[Karoltyna]

Wow, I go to bed and miss all the drrraaaaammmmaaaa.... and I am feeling chatty so skip if you don't want to read me before I've had my coffee.

No, they are doing it because they are trying to slow, stop or even {gasp} reverse the decline in interest in the competitive sport worldwide: they tried the heap-rewards-on-the-mega-jumpers thing with Chen and Malinin - and it didn't work and their two biggest male drawcards are now competing with them for Japanese attention - and with the TT girls where it seemed to work and then imploded into tainted ugliness.


What is amusing to me is that Malinin has over and over said how much he admires Yuzuru, and yet neither he nor any of his fans seem to have the foggiest what it is that has made Yuzu both the highest-achieving (in IJS at the very least) and most popular skater on the planet. And I'm not knocking the jumps, because Yuzu and Shoma were both pioneers in the jump revolution - they both have first quads/jumps in their resume.


Iconic? Oh please. The only iconic bits are in ten-second tiktok clips which is probably enough for a lot of folk. ISU don't have to show the whole thing because the jumps - which appear to be all his fans or what media is looking care about - are still there. And there was more 'widespread media attention' to minor events in nearly all sports that have been listening to their damn audience.

The general media have no idea why a 4A is any more 'speshull' than the other quads, the general audience can't even tell them from triples, I suspect it's things like cantilevers, hydroblades and backflips that they like to see just as much.


To be fair, Jason and Kimmy (and Nathan Chen, Tessa Virtue, all the current and retired big instagram accounts) have been going on sm a lot longer than Malinin - Yuzu started his after them all, never posts because he seems to keep forgetting it exists, and still has 232K. Go figure ). And Jason does have a more appealing online personality. Plus people do impulse subscribe and then forget/lose interest, in the person or the platform, but never unsubscribe, so numbers can be dodgy. Social media is in the end less important than bums on seats.


Starr Andrews has 57M views. I repeat, social media is in the end less important than...


Well, Malinin et al can also get better. No one is stopping him from honing his skating skills.

Anyway, simple fact is, TPTB in their wisdom let the jump-crazy thing make a pig's breakfast of scoring and lost a hell of a lot of interest worldwide as a result, and this when it was already a worry. I doubt this will entirely turn it round, but hey, they need to try something.

The entire sport is not supposed to be running entirely for the benefit and glory of Ilia Malinin and the TT girls (if and when they come back) because Ilia Malinin and the TT girls are replaceable, just as Chen and Chan and Javi and Shoma and Yuna and Yuzu ought to have been. But if it loses the bulk of skaters and audience, it will die.

Now... where's that coffee?

Tis, every single word 4A could draw people who won't be able to tell the jumps appart until they are told what was jumped and how many revs it had. They'll watch streaming for season or so and go to another thing that is hyped on IG. Good thing if they'll go to the icerink to see how it feels to skate.

 

[TallyT]

Wait, research?! What research? Is anyone ACTUALLY doing high-quality research about figure skating viewership that one can draw meaningful conclusions from? I would love to see the studies. But you're right, that conclusion is probably BS.

I am blithely assuming that - like any reasonably intelligent organisation - the ISU is paying for reputed experts to do research into how to promote their sport. I do not assume that said research or the resultant advice is any good (anyone glanced at the UK election news?) or that the organisation will use the information they paid for, I'm not quite that blithe.

None of the recent championship performances with multiple quads bored more people than they thrilled. Just listen to the audience reactions.

Just look at the financial reports. They may be better this year...

 

[AxelLover]

What will be the rules regarding combinations? Only two combos?

 

[Magill]

I do not think it is possible to bring back the 1990s -- aka, the golden age of figure skating -- when the sport was right up there in terms of audience appeal, the ISU was awash in cash and Olympic champions were household names. The Hanyu phenomenon in Japan is quite unique and will not be duplicated by any male skater, however elegant and athletic. Twiddling with scales of values and balanced program rules will not amount to a hill of beans in this regard.

If you think Hanyu phenomenon is just Japan, you never heard of the tiny country of China...
BTW, at his recent solo show, not even close to Tokyo, viewers from almost 30 countries were present, so, no,not Japan alone.
But, anyway, is he duplicatable? No, sure not. Just like no one duplicated or surpassed the phenomenon of The Beatles. Still it is from such wild public-love phenomenons where pr people are learning what the public at large wants, what works and what does not work. You can not duplicate them but you can at least make the whole show a little bit more interesting for the wide audiences as this phenomenon proves it is possible in our time, too. BTW, Yuzu came to his fame having no social media presence, no big pr agency to represent him and no fed love to try and swing ISU rules in his favour. Watching the current shenanigans makes me appreciate his wild and genuine success even more.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I still think that the Hanyu phenomenon was a case of the perfect storm.The ISU is not going to say, OK, now we know what people want, so all we have to do is create some more skaters like Yuzuru. The Beatles is a good analogy. Imitators like Herman's Hermits were not so enthusiastically embraced by the public.

Plus, twiddling with 6 jumps versus 7 is not going to produce another Hanyu.

 

[TallyT]

... The fact that you read this comment as anything else than a clear dig at people who were essentially getting into a panic over "poor little Ilia" (as you also were doing) is kind of confusing to me.

I prefer (of course) to see it as kindly reassurance myself

 

[Magill]

Well, I still think that the Hanyu phenomenon was a case of the perfect storm.The ISU is not going to say, OK, now we know what people want, so all we have to do is create some more skaters like Yuzuru. The Beatles is a good analogy. Imitators like Herman's Hermits were not so enthusiastically embraced by the public.

Plus, twiddling with 6 jumps versus 7 is not going to produce another Hanyu.

ISU cannot create skaters, and surely it cannot create another Yuzuru Hanyu. Still it can and it does encourage or discourage creating certain programs and mastering certain skills they require. When asked about certain specific elements of his so wildly-loved programs, Yuzuru would often say (quoting from memory): "Honestly, I don't even know why I bother to do it as it gives no points at all. From the competition point of view, it is not rewarded. So I guess I do it just for the public and for myself."
Now, this is a screaming red card waved at the ISU by the biggest star they happened to have in the last decade or two, if not ever.
As for the Beatles analogy, Herman's Hermits were just imitators - and these are never successful. The rock scene was the storm that followed. But if record companies and music industry acted like ISU, none of it would have happened on the scale we know as none of the new bands would be allowed to record and go on air. Starting with the Rolling Stones.

 

[TallyT]

I think in the end it pays to remember that all skaters since the IJS started have spent heaps of time and effort working to enhance their particular skills and maximise points under the rules and regs - only to have the rules and regs change on them on a regular basis and have to adjust, adapt and in some cases work out how to make up points elsewhere. And the world records kept happening.

 

[Karoltyna]

ISU cannot create skaters, and surely it cannot create another Yuzuru Hanyu. Still it can and it does encourage or discourage creating certain programs and mastering certain skills they require. When asked about certain specific elements of his so wildly-loved programs, Yuzuru would often say (quoting from memory): "Honestly, I don't even know why I bother to do it as it gives no points at all. From the competition point of view, it is not rewarded. So I guess I do it just for the public and for myself."
Now, this is a screaming red card waved at the ISU by the biggest star they happened to have in the last decade or two, if not ever.
As for the Beatles analogy, Herman's Hermits were just imitators - and these are never successful. The rock scene was the storm that followed. But if record companies and music industry acted like ISU, none of it would have happened on the scale we know as none of the new bands would be allowed to record and go on air. Starting with the Rolling Stones.

You've got the point with Yuzu doing things for the public. But... the public isn't what it used to be (sheesh, I sound very old and I'm not even 40). Skaters used to do many thing for the public, like step sequences that sent the audience to the moon, knee spins, funny litte hops (I mean Candeloro squat jump that looked like inspired by kozachok), shadowfencing or martial arts moves. When Elvis Stojko did step sequence in Conquest of Paradise, public was louder than when Ilia did 4A. Because it was public that understood it's figure skating, not jump skating and that jumps aren't the only technical element in fs that is hard to master. I remeber lots form Elvis program and I don't even remember what Ilia wore during his FS. I remeber what Ilia wore during SP only because I thought that it is ridiculous to make insane jumper and energetic teenager skate such program, to such music, in such outfit and that he himself feels visibly awkward during the skate.
Now we hear that fs without jumps is boring. Aha, do they realize that there times jumppasses were not limited?

 

[Karoltyna]

They are supposed to decide today who will host Euros 2025? Or will we have to wait longer?

 

[lariko]

What will be the rules regarding combinations? Only two combos?

Yes, and pairs now can only do combos, not cascade (limited to 2 jumps), however euler doesn't count as a jump. So they can do a combo via euler, but not +2A+2A. In addition, all jumps of the same type, irregradless of number of rotations, are limited to 3.

So, huge loss of jumping content across 3 disciplines.

 

[skatesofgold]

Yes, and pairs now can only do combos, not cascade (limited to 2 jumps), however euler doesn't count as a jump. So they can do a combo via euler, but not +2A+2A. In addition, all jumps of the same type, irregradless of number of rotations, are limited to 3.

So, huge loss of jumping content across 3 disciplines.

So we're really losing two jumps...even in the 90s, skaters had 3 combos...like Tara Lipinski.

 

[4everchan]

Yes, and pairs now can only do combos, not cascade (limited to 2 jumps), however euler doesn't count as a jump. So they can do a combo via euler, but not +2A+2A. In addition, all jumps of the same type, irregradless of number of rotations, are limited to 3.

So, huge loss of jumping content across 3 disciplines.

honestly, the +2a+2a series were very ugly for most pairs they all lacked flow and the essence of real combos was lost. Pairs should do real combos with flair and flow, like teams just a few years back doing things like 3t-2t but doing it well. I don't need to see another +2a+2a combo ever again... and it sucks that I will have to wait 2026 for this to happen

 

[skatesofgold]

honestly, the +2a+2a series were very ugly for most pairs they all lacked flow and the essence of real combos was lost. Pairs should do real combos with flair and flow, like teams just a few years back doing things like 3t-2t but doing it well. I don't need to see another +2a+2a combo ever again... and it sucks that I will have to wait 2026 for this to happen

Well, they never should have allowed +axel to become a thing in the first place to fulfill jump sequence/combo requirements.

 

[Karoltyna]

honestly, the +2a+2a series were very ugly for most pairs they all lacked flow and the essence of real combos was lost. Pairs should do real combos with flair and flow, like teams just a few years back doing things like 3t-2t but doing it well. I don't need to see another +2a+2a combo ever again... and it sucks that I will have to wait 2026 for this to happen

Overall there aren't many pairs whos combos are pleasant to watch.

 

[lariko]

So we're really losing two jumps...

Starting in 26/27 we are losing a combo, which can contribute a lot to TES. In addition, 1 out of 3 formerly levelled spins are now BV + GOE. In other words, these rules will erode the TES portion of the balance by a lot, taking power away from the technical panel even more and placing final result even more into the collegiate decision by judging panel.

My only hope is that the qualification round rule was passed and then rescinded only after 1 year, so maybe sanity and fairness will prevail at a later date. But I am not sure I can even rely on Russians there if they come back, no matter how technicaly minded they are. Because, well, judging collusion is their domain as well.

At this point, if nothing changes, I will let FS to go it's own way after GPF prior to Olympics, because it will be too disgusting to see the Politics on Ice show.

 

[4everchan]

as pointed out... you guys shouldn't panic... the ISU changes rules every other weekend... so if they miss the jumping pass or a combo, they will bring it back and this is why, ladies and gentlemen, they are destroying the sport... not with the content of each rule changed... but with the constant changes they make.... it's like playing a board game with a 4 year old who keeps reinventing the rules... people get over it really quickly...

i like some of these new rules... but I am not foolish... there will be more and more changes... so you win some and you lose some... and it's always a temporary thing with the ISU...

so, to my friends here who are crying the loss of a combo or a jump... just be patient you never know when things will swing the other direction with the ISU

 

[lariko]

Overall there aren't many pairs whos combos are pleasant to watch.

Competitive sport is not about average, it's about exceptional. Every element in FS, be it a part of TES or included in components have those who do it exceptionally well, and the 90%. 10% rule doesn't exclude skating. It doesn't matter which element is filtered out and which one is included.

Next season we are likely to be treated to a flood of backflips of various quality, until someone breaks their neck in front of the world audience. Last year we were treated to slo-mo replay of someone's ankle bending backwards and about snaping on landing, this year it will be a neck. It will be particularly emotionally grabbing in Juniors. Good job, ISU.

Enjoy!

 

[lariko]

Anyway, with the last finger to ISU and the hive that loves the incoming PCS dominance I have to go and do my stuff that is unrelated to skating. Glad i got 2 years to hold on to it, but if I don't get changes I like in those 2 years, well, it was nice while it lasted and at least I got to see the best of it. So long, and thanks for all the fish, ISU.

 

[Karoltyna]

Competitive sport is not about average, it's about exceptional. Every element in FS, be it a part of TES or included in components have those who do it exceptionally well, and the 90%. 10% rule doesn't exclude skating. It doesn't matter which element is filtered out and which one is included.

Next season we are likely to be treated to a flood of backflips of various quality, until someone breaks their neck in front of the world audience. Last year we were treated to slo-mo replay of someone's ankle bending backwards and about snaping on landing, this year it will be a neck.

Enjoy!

Those who go to Euros and Worlds are already like 1% of those who train and compete overall. I hope that the fact they allowed backflips will simply make them go and if not, that we will see Suria style backflips than Adam style backflips. His landing makes me want to scream witch panic. The same with his arabian landing, it looks as if he was fighting for his life, Ilia's 540 jump is better and smoother.