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- Feb 10, 2015
Then what about pairs, the situation is much complicated there 2,3 points difference, Peng /Zhang Tarasova/Morozov how it will be decided ? as for dance G/P also in danger
A fair way to pick GPF finalists?
- Thread starter drivingmissdaisy
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Then what about pairs, the situation is much complicated there 2,3 points difference, Peng /Zhang Tarasova/Morozov how it will be decided ? as for dance G/P also in danger
Then what about pairs, the situation is much complicated there 2,3 points difference, Peng /Zhang Tarasova/Morozov how it will be decided ? as for dance G/P also in danger
Only one skater/pair/dance team per country
So...
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- Jan 25, 2013
By THEM do you mean all participants of TEB or those with a realistic shot at GPF? If the latter it is not fair to the rest. If not we are looking at the 'reconstruction' of TEB elsewhere. We are talking about appr 200 people to be brought together again. Who is to meet the cost of it? ISU- i doubt it. Would the skaters willing to fork out from the strained budgets the cost of an extra unplanned event (flights, accommodation, upkeep of themselves + their coaching teams)? If you think about time & finance constraints this project has a zero chance of ever getting off the ground.
My opinion to use sp results and move on. To reach any fairness is impossibility. At least in this case the selection will be on the basis of actual results of the skaters in the competition in question. Those who lose have only themselves to blame. Frankly Liza & Patrick already were propped by judges very generously so they should not be complaining and it is the second event in the row they bomb their sp.
Yeah, how is this "skaters who deserve it" decided? I'm guessing the Russians want to see T/M & Tukt there, but what does that mean for a team like J/C who were 2nd going into the FS and are capable, especially with the technical upgrades they have made, of skating well enough to hold off teams who were below them? I doubt anyone is fighting to say they deserve the chance, but they had got themselves into a strong position after the SP.
Ugh. They lose all credibility in my eyes if the GPF places are decided based on anything other than was was actually able to be skated and scored. We might as well just hand out Worlds medals now based on who a handful of people think deserve it and save ourselves the fuss of having the whole event.
Ugh. They lose all credibility in my eyes if the GPF places are decided based on anything other than was was actually able to be skated and scored. We might as well just hand out Worlds medals now based on who a handful of people think deserve it and save ourselves the fuss of having the whole event.
This is ridiculous.
"Yes, we accept that these are exceptional circumstances and that we have to adapt!.... As long as all the others get screwed but not we because this is not fair to us!!!"
Yeah well...
Under this light, i quite respect Trankov and Lipnitskaya - both complained that using just SP was not fair even though both were winning with this (V/T have a solid FS i think, but they could have still messed it up, stuff happens, they could get injured for example, so its nice to just have it guaranteed, and Lip could actually end up in third or not medal at all quite easily - Liza had good chances of passing her).
Well, Trankov complained just about other russian skaters i think. Then Lip said it would be unfair to Liza and PChan.
I dunno, for me, its tricky... All pairs up to 7th place had a chance to medal really =( So a fair way would be somehow awarding them all.
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This is a hot mess. Let's assume these skaters are given the possibility to skate their FD/LP. What if they under-perform? The only objective 100% accurate solution would have been to skate the LP at TEB as planned. Since it didn't happen (and I agree with the solution to cancel it), the "what ifs" will never end. What if Liza will skate badly her LP because of the pressure to prove herself in an unprecedented situation? What if preparing for such skate will hinder her preparation for the rest of the season? If she skates bad, no one will ever know if she would have skated badly also at TEB. If she goes clean, I am 100% sure many will say still say it's not fair to give her an additional GPF spot since at TEB, the program she did skate, was terrible.
Also, how "good" must she skate in order to be invited at the GPF? I love Liza to death but the only program she nailed this season was her LP at Skate Canada, and even that program was subpar for her standards. The ONLY reason she is even considered is because her amazing last season. This season she was a hot mess so far. How do you set the bar on who deserves to qualify? I can see an argument being made that all skaters who meddled at their previous GP (and imploded their SP at TEB) will be given a chance. How about skaters who placed 4th or less at TEB and TEB was their first GP?
Exactly!:noshake:
and in times of world wide web and video chats it wouldn't be too difficult to agree on one time where all the judges do a video conference and watch the skaters per web cam/ video chat skate their long programms in their home rinks.
The sp standing are just never the same at the final results. The reason is, that there're people who are better sp or lp skaters. There're consistent and inconsistent people. And all the other Grand prix final participants had to skate two programms. They should too!
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- Dec 20, 2013
It should include anybody who was at TEB who would like the opportunity to take part.
As for the cost unfortunately it's just the way it is. This is a very difficult situation. For those who really want to qualify for the GPF then they may want to go more. If this was a World Championship I really don't think the ISU would have cancelled the event but instead just delayed it for a few day's.
I really think the ISU have screwed this up badly. If skaters qualify for the GPF with only a SP result at the TEB then I really think that's unfair.
As for "Those who only have themselves to blame" attitude. The event was based (Like all GP events) on two programs. World & Olympic medals have been won & lost over TWO programs not one. Should the ISU say to Patrick & Liza that they are going to be treated differently than others who have also been "held up" ?.
There is no easy solution to this. But the ISU have handled it really badly.
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- Jan 25, 2013
More from Kogan:
http://tass.ru/sport/2441086
It says that the ISU is to make a decision today or tomorrow. The RUssian officials expect to hear from other federations today re the proposals.
http://tass.ru/sport/2441086
It says that the ISU is to make a decision today or tomorrow. The RUssian officials expect to hear from other federations today re the proposals.
We would actually need to see till the end of GPs, for example.
For Tukt - she had good to great FS skates all this season, and had actually good chances of getting silver. And then she has one silver already. Which makes some decent-ish chances for GPF. 2 silvers or silver and bronze - thats 26 / 24 points, not hopeless. And this is not an improbable scenery - after all, i´m not saying a skater that struggles with doubles will win worlds, i´m basic this conclusion on how Liza actually skated this season and on her other GP (all this season, she got 120+ for her FS).
Now, for example, Lipnitskaya. She was 6th on her other GP, and here, had pretty much 0 chances of getting gold - she wouldnt beat Gracie even with a clean FS (and FS was her weakness all this season, so not sure if we could have expected a clean skate from her). So best she could have is a silver + 6th place - which means she has no chance for GPF no matter what. Even a gold and 6th place - thats just 20 points, way too low to classify to GPF.
So based on the above example, out of those 2 ladies, i say Liza deserves it because she had a chance to classify to GPF, and Lip doesnt, because she had no chances of classifying to GPF no matter what happened on TEB.
Using similar logic - Patrick deserves it because he also had a chance to classify to GPF based on TEB results, which he lost because he couldnt skate his FS. He has one gold already, and he had decent chances of medaling here, ending with 26 to 30 points - a good chance of going to GPF.
(and yeah, i think T/M actually had no chances to classify to GPF - i don´t think they would medal here afer the FS, as the other teams are pretty strong too).
So for me... A cheap solution would be to analyse carefully the results of the TEB skaters all together, and take the ones that had chances to classify to GPF. And bring them to GPF even if it means extra entries.
Chances to classify - they could select top 6 out of skaters who didnt participate in TEB and then take the lowest score as classification threshold.
And then just spend some time checking. Giving the benefit of doubt when needed.
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It's obvious the ISU will have a new rule after this situation. I can't believe they didn't have any rule considering this kind of scenario. I mean, they have NHK in Japan and there are earthquakes quite often over there, what if an earthquake damages the ice rink and the competition can't be continued? What if it rains very heavily and an ice rink gets flooded and the competition needs to be stopped? These are the people who have 8 tie-breakers for GPF, we could expect a little rule on "what would happen if we have to cancel an event"
This said, all the skaters skated their shorts under the same circumstances: same rink, same moment, same judges panel, etc. So if they get to skate their LPs somewhere else, the equally of circumstances disappears. So for me, the least unfair decision would be to keep the SP results as all of them had their chance to shine.
Every decision is unfair, as unfair is to get sick during an event (Hawayek/Baker), or to have a training accident (Hotarek/Marchei), or to have a warmp-up accident and not being able to skate your free even if you want to.
This said, all the skaters skated their shorts under the same circumstances: same rink, same moment, same judges panel, etc. So if they get to skate their LPs somewhere else, the equally of circumstances disappears. So for me, the least unfair decision would be to keep the SP results as all of them had their chance to shine.
Every decision is unfair, as unfair is to get sick during an event (Hawayek/Baker), or to have a training accident (Hotarek/Marchei), or to have a warmp-up accident and not being able to skate your free even if you want to.
Being sick and not able to competete is differently unfair than not being able to participate/ getting a spot gifted at the gpf because the authorities decided so. You can't compare those two scenarios.
A free skate per video conference at the skaters home rink would meet the same judges and the same moment criteria, even though not the same rink criteria. Still, only giving out the gpf spot per sp rankings would be far worse. A spot at the GPF is a desireable thing a lot of skaters want. It's highly unfair that some had to skate 2 good programms to get it, while others are gifted it for just 1 good programm. They get the benefits of the gpf spot (reputation, world ranking), without doing as much as the other participants, but because their reputation is good enough for the isu to say they 'deserve' it. That's not sports, that's fortune telling.
Also,a fair point.
WORLD STANDINGS... What will happen with those?
As for prize funds, dunno... For me, just donate it to support the victims families or something like that really... Awarding money based on SP would be even more unfair etc, and i´m sure skaters will not complain if it goes to some good cause.
WORLD STANDINGS... What will happen with those?
As for prize funds, dunno... For me, just donate it to support the victims families or something like that really... Awarding money based on SP would be even more unfair etc, and i´m sure skaters will not complain if it goes to some good cause.
It's not the "same moment" as they're skated days/weeks after the original date. So the skaters aren't in the exact same physical/psychological moment.
BTW: timezones. If you want to make everybody skate at home, there are skaters from China, Canada, Japan, USA, etc. If they all skate at the same moment, because I assume you're not having the judges on a videoconference for 24 hours, some of them skate early in the morning, and some others late at night. Everybody who has followed skating for a while knows that the skating time affects a lot the skaters' performance.
Also it's not the same appreciating someone's skating quality live than through a stream that can easily freeze and doesn't have enough of a super-HD quality to pretend you're there. Depth of edges, speed, interpretation, etc are all parameters that only can be appreciated if you're in the ice rink. Those translate poorly through TV/Stream unless there's high definition.
I don't see this as a logical possibility, sorry.
I dont think it has to be simultaneously. For example, they can be given a span of 24hrs to skate it (this will also help with getting ice time etc).
Also, wouldnt need to be live for judges, it could be just recorded and then judges watch the FS in the order it was supposed to be skated on TEB for example.
This would also solve streaming issues, as a HD video could be recorded and sent. So it could be HD and not freeze etc.
So the skaters would have different chances to skate their best possible program and then submit it? Who's gonna be sure they're all recording their first attempt? And the judges would be enclosed in a room without the audience being able to watch their reactions/scoring live? Do the skating fans get to watch the skaters performances as well?
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