All Things Canadian Ice Dance | Page 8 | Golden Skate

All Things Canadian Ice Dance

Phew ! It's very weird to have to be saying this , but I'm relieved to hear R/H had such a poor skate.:confused:

To someone way on the outside (e.g. me )..knowing the really solid improvements R/H have made this year , it was very strange to see their marks. There was no apparent fall or other major deduction , no messing up of one particular element , but a sudden drop in levels on nearly everything across the boards , spins, lifts,you name it.

The generally inflated ' home ' scores at these sectionals don't make it any easier to wrap your head around. And perception still counts for something in this CoP era , so messages are being sent.. intentionally or not.
 
chuckm, In past years, V&M won a silver medal and a bronze medal at worlds (2008 & 2009) while D&W won no medal. In those years, it would have been fine by the ISU for them to be in the same GP in the following year. However, S&Z seem to have tried, when possible, to keep teams that are closely competitive in different events.

Consequently:
2006/2007
Both D&W and V&M competed at SC
V&M did TEB
D&W did NHK

2007/2008
D&W did SA & TEB
V&M did SC and NHK

2008/2009
D&W competed at SC, but V&M were dealing with injury and did not compete at all in the GP. D&W also competed cup of Russia

2009/2010
D&W did NHK and SA
V&M did not compete in the GP

So the only time in their senior career that D&W and V&M were both at either a Senior B or GP event was Skate Canada 2006/2007

Their first meeting of the season is typically 4 continents, provided both are healthy.

It's a strategy that seems to have worked well for both teams.
 
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I don't know if it is possible. But if so, it may explain why Andrew Poje is a member of the Kitchener-Waterloo Skating Club (southern Ontario), while Kaitlyn Weaver is listed as a member of the Sault Figure Skating Club (northern Ontario). I always wondered why Kaitlyn was a member of Sault FSC. As far as I am aware, she went directly to Kitchener-Waterloo to team with Andrew when she moved to Canada.

Despite the fact that Andrew trained throughout his early career in Kitchener-Waterloo (Western Ontario Section), he eventually switched his affliation to Northern Ontario Section (I believe that took place when he skated briefly with Alice Graham - someone correct me if my timeline is off a bit), although he continued to train in K-W. Andrew and Kaitlyn represented Northern Ontario Section initially (and perhaps still do, although they have close ties to WOS). This may explain why Kaitlyn has a northern Ontario club affliation.
 
Then he must have switched back again. Their Wiki pages, Skate Canada profiles, and ISU biography have Andrew affiliated with KW SC, and Kaitlyn with Sault FSC.
 
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In the US, teams often have one member belong to an ice club in a different region & section, so that the team has the freedom to pick which section to compete in, depending on the competition.

Is that possible in Canada?

It is absolutely possible, but, primarily relevant for Sectionals and later Challenge, as comps aren't divided other than these by regional affiliation in terms of ability to compete.

As an example: Nicholas Lettner represents Eastern Ontario as a member of the Bowmanville Figure Skating Club, and his brother Christopher represents Central Ontario as a member of the Scarboro Figure Skating Club. Both train at Ice Dance Elite at Scarboro. Both skate Junior ... they simply chose this year, to have Nick belong to BFSC, to have him represent EOS. Last year, both boys belonged to the Oshawa Skating Club, and both, though paired with non-EOS partners, competed at EOS sectionals. YOu simply have to have one of team as a member of a "section" for the entire dance team to represent that section (hope this makes sense).
 
Then he must have switched back again. Their Wiki pages, Skate Canada profiles, and ISU biography have Andrew affiliated with KW SC, and Kaitlyn with Sault FSC.

Andrew's second partner Alice Graham was from North Bay (Northern Ontario). When Andrew partnered with Alice, they chose to represent Northern Ontario Section (likely for some of the reasons mentioned above). So I suppose it's more accurate to say that he represented SC-NO as part of that new partnership; he didn't have to change his club affiliation, since Alice's affiliation allowed them to represent Northern Ontario.

When Kaitlyn came to skate in Canada, she chose to join a Northern Ontario club (Sault FSC). This allowed her and Andrew to continue to represent Northern Ontario. I watched an interesting interview with them, videotaped at last spring's Northern Ontario AGM.

ETA: It's interesting to note though, that WOS refers to them as Western Ontario skaters on the WOS website. (I don't think that was true prior to this year. So I'm not sure which section they're representing at the moment.) I wonder how they'll be introduced in Moncton.

ETA 2: Answered my own question. The WOS international assignments page for 2011-2012 lists Kaitlyn and Andrew's competitions, but they are noted as "representing NO". So they still represent Northern Ontario, FWIW.
 
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I think you're being polite by saying "tad" high. That score has them just outside the top ten at Worlds last season, and the GW was a higher scored step than the Rhumba (by a point each sequence).

I know we're not to believe Challenge scores etc, but that is still insanely high.
 
Well yes. But I wasn't there. And I'm watching a rather jumpy video. Still, I don't think they should be within 2 points of W&P's NHK performance, nor that they are as good or better than S&S and I&K. IMO.
 
The opening is a bit slow on the uptake, but once they get into the dance, there is a reasonable amount of detail there. She does come off as less mature than him, though that may just be the way her hair was so distracting throughout the dance. Amazing how the component members of a partnership can affect your impression. I always felt Paul was the slightly less mature member of the team while he was with Vanessa. Now the reverse is true. I wonder what they will look like come January. There is potential there and I was impressed that she more or less kept up with him given so little training time and the massive step up in quality she is making.
 
They skate pretty far apart, and at times he seems to be pulling her around the ice. 58.79 does seem VERY overscored.

Piper is almost as tall as Paul. I can't help wondering if that will be a problem in the future with lifts. The ones they had in this dance seemed limited.
 
There seems to be a concerted campaign to promote this team from the start. From certain parts of the audience, the assertive attitude, and the whole energy around them in Barrie. I can understand why, since he is last season's champion, been on the international scene for awhile, and funding is attached to the top 3 and top 5 finishers at Canadians. Not to mention future international assignments. The issue is that it takes a long time to develop a connection as a team....unison, line, posture together, etc. They have speed and confidence for sure. But they just need time at the rink together to develop the subtle things that will bring them the success they are looking for. I don't think there are short-cuts in ice dance. And they are absolutetly over-scored. There is no way this is close to Weaver/Poje. I think Ralph/Hill could beat them as well on a good day. I do think Piper and Paul are a top 5 team, I'm just don't think they are top 3, and definitely not in the short dance. Today, I expect them to have an audience pleasing program full of speed and great tricks. They have very cool lifts, so no worries there, chuckm. All this will mask the skating basics they are missing as a team. To me its a great show program, and not a competition program. But since they are not able to travel internationally this year, maybe that's the best strategy: make a good impression, get out in competition as much as possible, please the crowds, place somewhere in the top 5 at Canadians, while they work on gelling together as a team.

To be honest, the whole Senior event was a little underwhelming. Maybe I'm just grumpy. Or maybe it's this year's short dance, which I am really starting to loath. Beyond Gilles/Poirier, I think Orford/Williams had a solid start, but I think they are an unevenly matched team. It's becoming very obvious. She is very strong, but he looks like he struggles to keep up. His lines are just awful. Again, they have speed and flow, but they are missing a lot of basics together. And I don't see a connection really between them. I'm not sure how this works politically in the rink in BC, but I really think maybe Orford and Gagnon are a better idea. I'm not sure if their body types will match better, but I think they could really be an interesting team.

I found Van As/Shindle very underwhelming. I was expecting a whole lot more from them after the results from BC Sectionals. Their music is definitely not very latin. Ugh. Ritchie-Herveux/Masse are a much improved team, and they did very well for them. This is especially good when you consider they had to skate right after Gilles/Poirier. Good for them! In terms of skating to potential at this point in time, Gilles/Poirer and Ritchie-Herveux/Masse won the night for me. Laporte/Laliberte are missing a whole lot of skating skills. They seem to have arrived at their placement by element levels, but the skating itself is a work in progress. A lot of skating on 2-feet, missing complexity, and he especially can hardly make some of those turns in the foot-work sequence. To be honest, I thought they were overscored. Except for a couple of exceptions, there were way too many cross-cuts and 2-foot skating across the event. I'm beginning to detect a pattern with Lioudvinevitch/Mulder. When they compete only with themselves (Isabelle Henderson, Sectionals), they skate with more confidence and speed. When they skate with others, they look careful and tentative and a little overwhelmed, which then sets them up for errors. And it was a bad day at the office for them, since they were hit not only on the levels, but also with a long lift. It's unfortunate, since their skating skills, lines, unison, connection, diversity within the choreography (not a lot of 2 foot skating here), original music choices are all very, very good. Maybe good enough even for 2nd or 3rd. But they have to bring it. I get the sense this is not about skill, but mental frame of mind. They need to be infused with some of Gilles/Poirer chutzpah. They could move up tonight with a good skate. Dumas/Mackay Perry have made good improvements over the course of the season, but they really are a work in progress yet. Smyl Joly/Jesionek are a brand new team as well, and are also a work in progress. They'll get some good experience this year, make a trip to Moncton, and then do a whole lot better next year. I think they are just too new yet to have the pieces together.
 
And now the Juniors:

It was a solid event. I do think the scores in general are way too high. These marks are huge - most of these scores would beat international senior teams!! And on the international scene this year, these teams have not scored even close to these numbers at Junior.

That being said, I think the results are pretty much in line with what was skated. There are a lot of teams very close to each other. Bent/MacKeen are in 6th, right in the middle of a BC vs Quebec competition. They did much better internationally. Paradis/Ouellette were absolutely gorgeous last night. Just beautiful, and totally deserve their placement. Hasagawas were charming. I love their programs, and they are developing so nicely with Dubreil/Lauzon. Mr. Firus needs to start growing taller. Those 2 are almost the same height. Of all the teams from BC, I think they have the most potential for growth, development and staying together. I really hope it happens for them. Edwards/Pang and Bruser/Lum put in very solid performances, but I think they are going to need to find different partners soon. I really worry about these beautiful, talented girls outgrowing their partners. They will need to find strong, talented boys, and we all know there are not enough of those around. Poulin/Servant have not kept pace with their counterparts in Quebec in terms of growth and improvement. They looked strong, but the others have moved beyond. The Lettner boys might as well be tied. I'm not sure that latin is the style of choice for Kirkland/Lettner. Soucisse/Smyth had a bad day at the office. Not skated to their standard. They should be fighting for a spot in the top 8. They tend to come from behind in the free dance, so we'll see where they end up. Kuzmich/Hockley are a new team. He needed to make a change, but this is a long way down from 2nd at Junior Nationals last year. They do not look like a well-matched team. Carswell/Tanguay are also a brand new team, and look to be well matched in many respects. I'm sure they will improve their standing next year with time and development. The Clarke's had a good skate last night! Better than we are used to seeing from them this season. The 2 teams at the bottom are very much a work in progress, and would probably benefit from time at Novice. Culhane/Mondor had big issues just staying on their feet last night. The ice can really be a slippery place sometimes.
 
OK, no doubt 58 is way high for P/G!

That said, however, I see potential. I think they seem pretty matched visually and I agree wit jcoates that Piper is not doing too bad catching up to Paul's skill sets. But I don't really like the music and the choreo doesn't do much for me.

But that said, I see them battle for top 5 at this point. No where near V/M or W/P. R/H can definitely beat them for the podium. Though Paul and Islam aren't doing great so far, I think they have enough to beat then this time as well. I say they would probably battle for fifth with Orford and Williams.
 
OK, no doubt 58 is way high for P/G!

That said, however, I see potential. I think they seem pretty matched visually and I agree wit jcoates that Piper is not doing too bad catching up to Paul's skill sets. But I don't really like the music and the choreo doesn't do much for me.

But that said, I see them battle for top 5 at this point. No where near V/M or W/P. R/H can definitely beat them for the podium. Though Paul and Islam aren't doing great so far, I think they have enough to beat then this time as well. I say they would probably battle for fifth with Orford and Williams.

Yes, it's a nice problem.....too many decent/good/excellent teams, and not enough places in top 5. I think Piper/Paul will finish top 5. Unless Islam/Paul really improve, they will be lucky to finish in the top 5. My guess right now for the top 10:
- V/M (not much guessing there)
- W/P (solidly in 2nd)
- R/H (looking very strong this season, and with good skates can pull this off)
- G/P (doesn't matter really, since they can't travel internationally anyway, and this gives them the national team status)
- I/P (because their skills and lines are so beautiful, and I have to think they will be working very hard once her injury is healed in order to keep that national team spot)

- O/W (because I think they are better than H/G, although I really think they have some work to do on the basics if they want to crack into the national team)
- H/G (although they could possibly change places with O/W)
- in any order, depending on clean skates: Van As/Shindle, Lioudvinevitch/Mulder, Ritchie-Herveux/Masse
 
ok. Senior Dance free:

Smyl Joly/Jesionek: a developing team with some nice basics to grow next year. just beginning to gel as a team.

Dumas/Mackay Perry: also a brand new team. Definitely development over the season. But still a long ways to go, especially in quality of movement and basics. I thought marks were a little high.

Lioudvinevitch/Mulder: what can I say? Entirely different league, and going so well, until she fell on the last circle. Sucked the life right out of the program. You could see she was totally deflated. Must have missed the element entirely because everything else was so nice and marks are so low. Stay on your feet at Canadians!! You could have medaled here.

Laporte/Laliberte: really high marks for what looks like very poor skating to me. They must have gotten the marks on the element levels, but the skating skills are just awful. 2 foot skating, twizzles weak, turns and edges almost not existent. Spin was slow. Really don't see what the judges saw here.

Herveux/Masse: again a solid performance, and great improvement over the season. Cool update to their spin. Some good quality here, and no way deserve to be behind Laporte/Laliberte in the free. It's just wrong.

Van As/Shindle: good speed, some good things here. I felt it was a program on the edge. They barely hung on in places, and they are not in sync on the step sequences. I thought those elements were a mess. I'm also really tired of the Beatles. Too many cuts create a disjointed program. 74.13 points and overscored.

Orford/Williams: some good improvement, and interesting new highlights. He was much better today than yesterday. But this program is all about making her the star. And she is wonderful. But the program is so frantic, it can't build emotion. It's exhausting to watch. And like their team mates, they need to work on unison, being in sync, and quality in the step sequences. At 89.94 they are so overscored. It is not that close to Weaver/Poje. And it is not better than Ralph/Hill. Their skating skills are not in the same league as Islam/Paul. This is not speed skating. I would like to see them slow a little and show us their artistry and skating skills.

Gilles/Poirier: as expected, they put in a fast, solid performance. It had some innovative moves and was crowd pleasing. It is devoid of actual ice dancing. It's great theatre. Thinking about it, they looked a lot like pair skaters without the high lifts. They scored 94.66 which is way, way too high. There is no way this program should beat Weaver/Poje. This isn't even close. I'd put Ralph/Hill ahead of these 2. I'm not saying they can't or won't develop in the future. This is wrong in a big way right now.
 
FWIW, W/P's high was 96+, so they wouldn't beat them.

FD for those curious

Weaver/Poje got 94 and change just a few weeks ago. 2 points is not very much. And the complexity and skating lines and overall quality is not the same. Nor should anyone expect it to be. Pumping scores does not help anyone. And it just reinforces stereotypes that the sport is rigged. The placements were right except for one in the middle. The marks for the top 3 were ridiculous. None of these would come close to this internationally.
 
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