Are Savchenko & Szolkowy the 2nd most held up skater(s) of the last decade, after Chan?

[pangtongfan]

Are Savchenko & Szolkowy the 2nd most held up skater(s) of the last decade, after Chan?

I know S&S are beloved on this forum and I can understand why (innovation, coming from a country that is no longer a power in this sport and threatening and winning over superpowers from Russia and China). However when one looks at their career are they perhaps the 2nd most held up skaters of this era, a very distant 2nd behind the most held up skater in history Patrick Chan, that is. Look at their career they have had a number of hugely controversial wins or medals at big events:

2008 Worlds where almost everyone feels Z&Z and D&R should have beaten them and the Eurosport team gave Z&Z the gold after the performance of S&S only to be amazed when S&S somehow got the scores to win anyway.

2011 Europeans where it clear to pretty much everyone Kavaguti & Smirnov were robbed of winning.

Now 2014 Olympics.

Some smaller controversies although atleast within reason would be:

2013 Worlds silver
2011 Grand Prix final
2012 Worlds

That is quite a long list of either largely controversial or lesser controversial medals and wins. Their biggest legacy should be the great and innovative pair team they were, and all they achieved, despite the huge void of clean performances. However do they also go down as the 2nd most held up skater(s) of this era behind only Chan?

 

[noskates]

I didn't realize anyone was keeping a list.... :disapp:

 

[sky_fly20]

I agree here,
Pang & Tong today were robbed of the bronze medal !

 

[pangtongfan]

I agree here,
Pang & Tong today were robbed of the bronze medal !

The scary thing though is today would at most be only a distant 3rd and 4th in the most controversial wins or medals ever for V&T. Just look at the skating experts at Eurosport's reaction to their 2008 World title win over the Zhangs and Dube & Davison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxTbMwnf6o


For all the recent anti Russian propaganda talk against V&T they have never even had close to such a controversial win (or any really controversial win for that matter).

 

[Silvia451]

Maybe I'm not the right person to say this (new here), but there are enough threads where we can explain how much we can't stand some figure skaters.

(But I agree that P/T should have won the bronze medal)

 

[pangtongfan]

Maybe I'm not the right person to say this (new here), but there are enough threads where we can explain how much we can't stand some figure skaters.

(But I agree that P/T should have won the bronze medal)

Well this isnt such a thread. I do like S&S, but there is no doubt they have had some of the highest number of controversial medals of a certain color in big events of anyone today. It is ironic people have forgotten this with all the baseless bashing of the "never a controversial big event win ever" V&T this season.

I remember after the 2008 Worlds and 2011 Europeans, many fans were so irate with the results of S&S winning that several skating boards crashed.

 

[icedinn]

The Zhangs should have won 2009 worlds! S/S skated the most boring program to Schindlers List.

 

[pangtongfan]

The Zhangs should have won 2009 worlds! S/S skated the most boring program to Schindlers List.

The Zhangs unfortunately made a couple unfortunate mistakes that year so I have to agree with S&S winning that year. The PCS of S&S for that particular program were ridiculous though. The Zhangs stunning SP also should have been 1st over the bizarre SP with a few noticeably weak elements (especialy a godawful death spiral) by S&S too.

This was around the point of the judges dumping of the Zhangs though. They only won silver at those Worlds since several teams bombed, then were really dumped for good the following season.

 

[sky_fly20]

The scary thing though is today would at most be only a distant 3rd and 4th in the most controversial wins or medals ever for V&T. Just look at the skating experts at Eurosport's reaction to their 2008 World title win over the Zhangs and Dube & Davison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxTbMwnf6o

imo, No one tops the shameful judging at the 2011 Europeans
one of the biggest injustice for Kavaguti / Smirnov's career

 

[pangtongfan]

imo, No one tops the shameful judging at the 2011 Europeans
one of the biggest injustice for Kavaguti / Smirnov's career

That was horrible. It was also reminscent of Chan's bogus win at the 2012 Worlds where an even normally polite skating crowd booed the result. It was a sign K&S were really getting dumped, even by their own federation, with the rise of V&T. Even S&S looked embarassed on top of the podium during the ceremony.

 

[icedinn]

True but Robin had a ugly fall which took away from the performance. The Zhangs even with mistakes were always beautiful and skated to their music. At least to me.

 

[pangtongfan]

True but Robin had a ugly fall which took away from the performance. The Zhangs even with mistakes were always beautiful and skated to their music. At least to me.

You make a good point. At the very least the 15 point gap between the two was simply outrageous, and more unjustified than any of the so called inflated gaps V&T have had over the years.

It was a shame the Zhangs never got a World title. Such a talented team, amazing technical ablity, and really improved their artistry over the years. If they were as popular with the judges as S&S they probably would have won 2 or 3 even with the same performances.

 

[sky_fly20]

That was horrible. It was also reminscent of Chan's bogus win at the 2012 Worlds where an even normally polite skating crowd booed the result. It was a sign K&S were really getting dumped, even by their own federation, with the rise of V&T. Even S&S looked embarassed on top of the podium during the ceremony.

agreed, it was also bad luck it coincided with the soon to rise of V&T
it was the start of the dumping of K&S sadly

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Maybe I'm not the right person to say this (new here), but there are enough threads where we can explain how much we can't stand some figure skaters.

Well this isnt such a thread.

Uhhh.....

Are Savchenko & Szolkowy the 2nd most held up skater(s) of the last decade, after Chan?

...most held up skater in history Patrick Chan, that is...

... 2nd most held up skater(s) of this era behind only Chan?...

Is this thread about how much you hate S/S, because in the title and your first post alone you've mentioned THREE times how much you hate Chan and think he's the most held up ever.

 

[Ziggy]

I never understood how people can anchor on mistakes so much, they stop seeing anything else.

Skating is fortunately much more than jumps.

Be careful what you wish for because I am certain 'top jump' events is not something you would actually enjoy watching.

 

[Pasdedeux]

I know S&S are beloved on this forum and I can understand why (innovation, coming from a country that is no longer a power in this sport and threatening and winning over superpowers from Russia and China). However when one looks at their career are they perhaps the 2nd most held up skaters of this era, a very distant 2nd behind the most held up skater in history Patrick Chan, that is. Look at their career they have had a number of hugely controversial wins or medals at big events:

2008 Worlds where almost everyone feels Z&Z and D&R should have beaten them and the Eurosport team gave Z&Z the gold after the performance of S&S only to be amazed when S&S somehow got the scores to win anyway.

2011 Europeans where it clear to pretty much everyone Kavaguti & Smirnov were robbed of winning.

Now 2014 Olympics.

Some smaller controversies although atleast within reason would be:

2013 Worlds silver
2011 Grand Prix final
2012 Worlds

That is quite a long list of either largely controversial or lesser controversial medals and wins. Their biggest legacy should be the great and innovative pair team they were, and all they achieved, despite the huge void of clean performances. However do they also go down as the 2nd most held up skater(s) of this era behind only Chan?

I have to admit that I am not good at sitting on the couch and pretending to be a better judge than the actual judge. All I can give is a perspective of a member of the audience. For me, S&S are some of the best skaters whose performances I have re-watched many times. They are certainly some of the most versatile having skated to everything from Lost in Space through to the Nutcracker. Everyone else, to me, looks pretty generic in comparison. They are (or I guess, we should say "were" now) not the best at being consistent but the difficulty level of their performances was always really high. They always had very good edgework and complex footwork. I won't even mention choreography. Aljona especially is a very gifted skater, but Robin does a great job presenting her. The Nutcracker in Sochi has to be the worst it has been performed, unfortunately. It was heartbreaking to watch Aljona afterwards.

 

[FlattFan]

Their LP to the Nutcracker is really flat. No innovation, nothing special. It was like a second tier pair program.

S/S had quite a few controversial wins in their career. One that stick out the most is the 2011 Euro win over K/S. K/S had one of the best LP in a long time, and they were clean. S/S totally missed a spin, and she was sitting there for 10 second shrugging and making face and filing her nail. It was ridiculous. Sorry, but you totally missed CH. IN was crap, PE definitely should take a big hit. S/S is probably more held up than even Chan because Chan's SS is undisputed, S/S is just good.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I never understood how people can anchor on mistakes so much, they stop seeing anything else.

Skating is fortunately much more than jumps.

Be careful what you wish for because I am certain 'top jump' events is not something you would actually enjoy watching.

No, but FS is a performance sport. When I watch someone fall during a dance routine it is jarring, and I feel the same when skaters fall. When I "anchor on mistakes" it is natural because I'm comparing that program to a clean one. One thing I do miss about 6.0 is that errors were judged more harshly; you weren't going to fall twice and beat a closely-ranked competitor who didn't fall. That some skaters are a couple of falls better than their rivals is something I don't like about the new judging system.

 

[sky_fly20]

Their LP to the Nutcracker is really flat. No innovation, nothing special. It was like a second tier pair program.

S/S had quite a few controversial wins in their career. One that stick out the most is the 2011 Euro win over K/S. K/S had one of the best LP in a long time, and they were clean. S/S totally missed a spin, and she was sitting there for 10 second shrugging and making face and filing her nail. It was ridiculous. Sorry, but you totally missed CH. IN was crap, PE definitely should take a big hit. S/S is probably more held up than even Chan because Chan's SS is undisputed, S/S is just good.

I think we can all agree
Euros 2011 results was the most disgraceful

 

[Silvia451]

Skating is certainly more than jumps. But, at least for me, it depends on the skater. If there is Chan winning the WC with many mistakes while Denis Ten's performing the program of his life and one of the best I've ever seen, jumps count a lot. If it's Yuzuru or Mao winning the GPF with falls, I don't mind it. I'm not an expert, I don't give them the scores, I just have my favorite skaters and I am biased.

(and the thread got really interesting )