Are you willing to bet on E. Medvedeva?

[vorravorra]

If that were the case, how come she didn't receive a call about a questionable edge on the Lutz or any deductions for underrotating anything at either SA, or COR, or Euros, or Worlds?

Ummm... tech experts really like her and are prepared to blink at appropriate moments? She is good at hiding it? That's an interesting question, but her lutz is at least "!" if not full "e", and however much I might like her it is not fair that it doesn't get called when it does with other skaters. And now that she is a world champion she is even less likely to get called on anything. As for prerotation, the policy is not to punish it. Whether this is correct or not is a question which has been discussed at length on this board, but Evgenia is not the worst offender.

 

[Crazy27]

Ummm... tech experts really like her and are prepared to blink at appropriate moments? She is good at hiding it? That's an interesting question, but her lutz is at least "!" if not full "e", and however much I might like her it is not fair that it doesn't get called when it does with other skaters. And now that she is a world champion she is even less likely to get called on anything. As for prerotation, the policy is not to punish it. Whether this is correct or not is a question which has been discussed at length on this board, but Evgenia is not the worst offender.

if Eugenia weak technique that means others it is not at all.

 

[Crazy27]

And be nice all to understand - women's figure skating repeats the way of rhythmic gymnastics. No more top skaters over 21, with a few exceptions. Everything will take place between 15-20. The 15th now can ride better than 25. Just deal with it.

 

[silverlake22]

Yes but Carolina floats across the ice like a gossamer butterfly. We need more statuesque skaters. None of the wunderkind has ever presented an sp like Ave Maria that floored the judges. As Kurt said it was absolutely Olympic.

There are more statuesque women in skating these days. In addition to Tsurskaya and Kostner, Joshi Helgesson is 171 cm, Maria Sotskova is 170 cm (maybe taller now), Polina Edmunds and Diana Nikitina are 169 cm (maybe taller now), Anna Pogorilaya is 167 cm, Radionova was looking about as tall as Pogorilaya at Nationals so she's probably around that height too. Gracie Gold, Zijun Li, and Roberta Rodegherio all appear to be fairly tall too. These days it seems like only pair girls are on the short side, the average height of a female elite skater is probably 5'4" or 5'5" these days which is average height in most countries. I think the men have generally stayed smaller over the years because most of the bigger/taller guys that start skating wind up in hockey. I don't think Tsurskaya's height has to be problematic, she gets huge air on her jumps, so as long as she can maintain good balance I would think she'll be fine.

 

[vorravorra]

Bigger/taller guys also don't seem to be as good at jumping. They do fine in pairs because the jump content there is relatively easy, but large size is not very helpful in doing quads. In fact, there seems to be a tendency for male singles skaters to get lighter/shorter as jump difficulty increases.

 

[Spiral]

Ummm... tech experts really like her and are prepared to blink at appropriate moments? She is good at hiding it? That's an interesting question, but her lutz is at least "!" if not full "e", and however much I might like her it is not fair that it doesn't get called when it does with other skaters. And now that she is a world champion she is even less likely to get called on anything. As for prerotation, the policy is not to punish it. Whether this is correct or not is a question which has been discussed at length on this board, but Evgenia is not the worst offender.

Are you implying that the tech experts at all the major competitions are so in awe of a skater debuting in seniors that they overlook her mistakes? Or that she knows how to hide her mistakes from all the tech specialists at all the major competitions, despite their front row seats and slo-mo options, but not from you, sitting in the stands or in front of the TV?

 

[andromache]

Are you implying that the tech experts at all the major competitions are so in awe of a skater debuting in seniors that they overlook her mistakes? Or that she knows how to hide her mistakes from all the tech specialists at all the major competitions, despite their front row seats and slo-mo options, but not from you, sitting in the stands or in front of the TV?

I think it's generally known that skaters with edge issues know where to place their jumps to make it least likely for judges/specialists to notice. They don't get the same camera angles we do. In the interest of fairness, it seems as if many skaters get an unfair benefit-of-the-doubt regarding edges and/or rotations, especially when you ask any fan. Evgenia and Gracie get it on their edges, while Ashley and Satoko get it on their rotations.

Reality is: these "favorites" are very close, so the panel gives it to them so as not to alienate fans. But still.....it's the lack of consistency that is most alarming. Either pay attention to the minutia or don't (like we did under 6.0).

 

[[email protected]]

Ummm... tech experts really like her and are prepared to blink at appropriate moments? She is good at hiding it? That's an interesting question, but her lutz is at least "!" if not full "e", and however much I might like her it is not fair that it doesn't get called when it does with other skaters.

At least she tries - her entrance starts with a good outside edge. But then, yes, she changes it to flat - it is not inside, at least it was never inside for me on slo-mo. So it should be "!". I guess, it would have changed her scores a bit but not her placements. And other people are not always called as well.

And be nice all to understand - women's figure skating repeats the way of rhythmic gymnastics. No more top skaters over 21, with a few exceptions. Everything will take place between 15-20. The 15th now can ride better than 25. Just deal with it.

Kanaeva won Olympic gold 2012 at 22. Kudryavsteva is 18 now. But if she is forced to miss Rio, I am sure, she will keep it 4 more years. The sport which is for sonograms is normal gymnastics and the Russians do not play primas there now.

 

[Crazy27]

Kanaeva won Olympic gold 2012 at 22. Kudryavsteva is 18 now. But if she is forced to miss Rio, I am sure, she will keep it 4 more years. The sport which is for sonograms is normal gymnastics and the Russians do not play primas there now.

Вот именно, Канаева уникум, как я и написал выше, такие будут и в ФК, вроде Мао. Но в целом, через пару-тройку лет, когда окончательно уйдут на пенсию ветераны больше вы не увидите 25-х на льду, разве что из стран со слаборазвитой женской дисциплиной, но потом ситуация и там подравняется. Все идет именно к этому. В спортивной гимнастике все обстоит также как и в художке, средний возраст - 17 лет.

 

[vorravorra]

I am not seeing sonograms taking over rhythmic gymnastics, unless you classify everyone under 25 as a sonogram. Rhytmic gymnastics does not feature multi-rotation jumps where the main advantage of sonograms lies, so it is not the best comparison. Also it is not a discipline where you can win just by doing tricks, it requires a more complete package. Of those currently at the top, Kudryavtseva as has been said is 18, she is very good technically, but her main advantage is her consistency and a stable psyche. Margarita Mamun is 20 and going strong, her problem is being a bit of a headcase. When she is on, she can blow you away. Of the second tier, Sasha Soldatova is 18 and still has some way to go before people start being truly impressed with her. The 17 y.o. Averina twins are the youngest, they can do some cool tricks, but are often perceived as juniorish in their performance and still need to develop their artistry. They will likely shine in the next Olympic cycle. Among the top non-Russian gymnasts, Melitina Staniuta, Ganna Rizatdinova and Son Yeon-jae are 22. There is no equivalent of Lipnitskaya or Medvedeva in rhythmic gymnastics and one is unlikely to emerge any time soon.

 

[hugo]

Kanaeva won Olympic gold 2012 at 22. Kudryavsteva is 18 now. But if she is forced to miss Rio, I am sure, she will keep it 4 more years. The sport which is for sonograms is normal gymnastics and the Russians do not play primas there now.

why Yana could be forced to miss Rio ?

 

[vorravorra]

why Yana could be forced to miss Rio ?

She was out for some time with an injury and not performing her best after returning. If she gets back into full form before the Olympics of course she will compete.

ETA: otherwise it is Soldatova as the first substitute, presumably, together with Mamun.

 

[hugo]

ok, I knew it. But still she is treated as more consistent than Sasha (Rita Mamun at this moment is pretty sure of having spot in Rio). We will see soon at European Champs...
As about age comparison between ladies FS and RG: Averina twins 18 y/o (1998) are still "juniorish" (according many people, underscored because judges think they have time to come on the top) and 12 y/o You Young wins National Championships among seniors...

 

[vorravorra]

I presumed that was what the original poster meant, as I can't think of another reason right now - unless the whole team doesn't go, of course.

There seems to be a certain hierarchy in RG, and people don't leap over a large number of steps.

 

[Mango]

Вот именно, Канаева уникум, как я и написал выше, такие будут и в ФК, вроде Мао. Но в целом, через пару-тройку лет, когда окончательно уйдут на пенсию ветераны больше вы не увидите 25-х на льду, разве что из стран со слаборазвитой женской дисциплиной, но потом ситуация и там подравняется. Все идет именно к этому. В спортивной гимнастике все обстоит также как и в художке, средний возраст - 17 лет.

Could we ask you to write in English so we can all follow along?

Evgenia is an enjoyable skater. I hope she can continue to skate well. Polina will be knocking on her door come the Olympic season though. Polina holds some of the junior ladies' records (total and FS).

 

[Abraxis12345]

Yana seems to be spending a lot of time hanging out with the other basketball WAGs and not really focused on training.

And for the record, Yana won her first world title just before she turned 16, about the same age as Medvedeva. A sonogram can emerge if the pieces are in place. Kudryavtseva's was helped by the fact some slightly older gymnasts, like Merkulova, got injured and if there is a new Junior Viner likes, she will arrange it so that girl gets the scores. It is definitely not unheard of for a new senior to start winning major titles (Alexandra Timoshenko and Alina Kabaeva won major titles their first year as seniors)

 

[vorravorra]

Yana seems to be spending a lot of time hanging out with the other basketball WAGs and not really focused on training.

And for the record, Yana won her first world title just before she turned 16, about the same age as Medvedeva. A sonogram can emerge if the pieces are in place. Kudryavtseva's was helped by the fact some slightly older gymnasts, like Merkulova, got injured and if there is a new Junior Viner likes, she will arrange it so that girl gets the scores. It is definitely not unheard of for a new senior to start winning major titles (Alexandra Timoshenko and Alina Kabaeva won major titles their first year as seniors)

Those few who started winning major titles early usually continued winning major titles till the end of their career, because they were just that much better than the rest. They didn't win because of their childlike body then crash and burn once puberty hit and were immediately replaced by another sonogram. If Evgenia Medvedeva continues winning everything for years, preferably till she retires, then sure, it will be comparable. But it wouldn't be a sport taking over by sonograms, it would be a sport taken over by Evgenia Medvedeva.

 

[Spiral]

I think it's generally known that skaters with edge issues know where to place their jumps to make it least likely for judges/specialists to notice. They don't get the same camera angles we do.

Then why don't all the skaters with edge issues do this, and we usually see plenty of skaters getting edge deductions?

In the interest of fairness, it seems as if many skaters get an unfair benefit-of-the-doubt regarding edges and/or rotations, especially when you ask any fan. Evgenia and Gracie get it on their edges, while Ashley and Satoko get it on their rotations.

I don’t think fans make for impartial judges.

Reality is: these "favorites" are very close, so the panel gives it to them so as not to alienate fans. But still.....it's the lack of consistency that is most alarming. Either pay attention to the minutia or don't (like we did under 6.0).

I’m not sure what you mean. Judges ignore wrong or unclear edges or underrotated jumps of popular skaters, so as not to alienate their fans? But these skaters do get deductions on these mistakes time and again.

Miyahara got calls for an unclear edge on an underrotated 3F at the Worlds’ SP, an unclear edge on 3F at SA’s SP and LP and NHK’s SP, the wrong edge on 3F at GPF’s SP and an underrotated 2nd 2A at NHK’s LP.

Wagner got calls for an underrotated 3T and 2nd 3F and an unclear edge on 3Lz at the Worlds’ LP and an underrotated 3S and an unclear edge on 3Lz at GPF’s LP.

Gold got calls for an unclear edge on the 3rd combo at the Worlds’ LP, an unclear edge on 3F at the Worlds’ SP, an unclear edge on 2F at GPF’s SP and the wrong edge on 3F at 4CC’s SP and LP.

Asada who’s also popular got calls for an underrotated 3A at the Worlds’ SP, an underrotated 3A, 1st 3Lo and 3T and the wrong edge on 2Lz at the Worlds’ LP, an underrotated 3Lo and the wrong edge on 3Lz at COC’s SP, an unclear edge on 2Lz and an underrotated 3T at COC’s LP, both underrotated 3Fs and an unclear edge on 3Lz at NHK’s LP, an underrotated 3F and 3Lo at GPF’s SP and an underrotated 3A and 2nd 2Lo at GPF’s LP.

Lipnitskaya who’s popular too got calls on an underrotated 3F at SA’s SP and an underrotated 3F and 2nd 2A at SA’s LP.

In fact, I haven’t noticed it the first time, but Medvedeva got a call for an unclear edge on 3Lz at GPF’s LP – but it was the only instance of all her major international events this season. And she wasn’t as popular as the others on this list till she’d won everything.

So it seems to me that everybody gets repeated calls on both edges and underrotations – if they deserve them.

 

[Jaana]

I´m not a betting person and a lot can happen before the Olympics. Didn´t a lot people believe in years before the 2014 Olympics that Chan would win the Olympics? Anyway, I think that competitions are more interesting if there are several serious contenders on about the same level and not just one strong one...

 

[apons575]

You can never make predicitions in figure skating, but Evgenia is extremely gifted and determined. Is she at Yuna-level? No, why should she be. She's at Evgenia-level. Seriously, comparing skaters and their PCS can get a little sticky when comparing them over multiple seasons. I will say that out of all the Russian ladies, Evgenia has the best presence and maturity level on the ice. She will go far, I just want to see how this season and next season go, because her 16-year old body will be going through "the changes" soon. However, I think she has a sound jump technique that will help her succeed through some tough times.
For the Olympic gold medal, it's too soon to predict, but she CERTAINLY has made a statement that she wants to be the best, and she intends on fighting for what she wants.
Also, to me, her top competitors seem to be the likes of Polina Tsurskaya and Grace Gold (non-headcase, lol). I don't say this with bias; I'm just basing this off of pure jump technique and previous judging. I don't mean to throw other skaters out of the mix, as I think Wagner and Miyahara will also throw everything they have at the judges in 2018. I can't wait to see what will happen!!