Artur Werner on Olympic pairs

[Medusa]

My Polish friend just looked at their last names and was like, not German. However I don't want to sidetrack this conversation. I am not doubting Robin's heritage. The man was born and raised in Germany and has German blood. With all the immigration and intermarriage, there is a mixed generation that is now part of the cultural and ethnic landscape of Germany. My mother is German and would never accept him as German. Younger people do consider him German.

Huh? My grandma had a Polish last name. It's not new in Germany to have slavic-sounding last names. There were several Germans in the 19th and I think even 18th century with slavic-sounding names.

 

[76olympics]

Ptichka, I noticed that both Rodnina and Vasilev have been very dimissive of America in the interviews I read. It does not come off well. There isn't any law that they must love America of course, but both of them profited financially by working here. If Russia is so much better, they should have sacrificed all to stay there. Both of them were "in" with the system and they weren't fleeing any kind of persecution by coming here. ( I know that sounds a little nasty on my part, but both of them just irritate me so much).

 

[soogar]

Huh? My grandma had a Polish last name. It's not new in Germany to have slavic-sounding last names. There were several Germans in the 19th and I think even 18th century with slavic-sounding names.

My mother is German and has a Polish last name as well. A huge part of Poland used to be a part of Germany. In spite of that, growing up in old time Germany, her family was referred to as Polish even though they spoke German and were ethnically German. As recently as 10 years ago, there was a family tragedy and one of the townspeople inquired about the Polish family (specifically referring Polish).

From what my mother told me about growing up, they were given a hard time for being Polish. Most likely that was small town living but that was how it was for her.

To bring it back to skating, you could live for generations in a country, speak the language, go to school and not be considered a native of the country by other natives.

I think it defeats the purpose of the Olympics NOT to have a citizenship restriction. The Olympics are a very special event - not only are people competing for personal glory but in doing so are representatives of their country. The viewers have an opportunity to get a glimpse into different cultures and be exposed to different ethnicities. I was watching the opening ceremonies with friends and we were so fascinated to see how different people look. Each European nation- majority of whom are Caucasian- had athletes that shared distinctive features that were unique to their particular origin.

For me (IMO) the practice of country hopping for competitive purposes cheapens the overall purpose of the Olympics. When I see athletes competing for countries that are not their own and they have no ties to, it brings the Olympics down to the level of any other competition. Why even have athletes represent countries if they are just going to go where it's easiest to qualify?

I know that it makes it difficult to field pairs teams, but instead of easing the citizenship restriction, the ISU needs to get involved with helping countries develop their own pairs/figure skating programs. That is one of the purposes of the ISU is to increase and spread skating. You see what happened to skating in Japan and Korea once they developed bona fide skating stars. Those stars help generate revenue.

 

[Ptichka]

Ptichka, I noticed that both Rodnina and Vasilev have been very dismissive of America in the interviews I read. It does not come off well. There isn't any law that they must love America of course, but both of them profited financially by working here. If Russia is so much better, they should have sacrificed all to stay there. Both of them were "in" with the system and they weren't fleeing any kind of persecution by coming here. ( I know that sounds a little nasty on my part, but both of them just irritate me so much).

First of all, I don't consider either one of those individuals all that bright. Compare that to the interview that the Moskvins give - a good example is a recent one by Igor Moskvin (http://ptichkafs.livejournal.com/45277.html, scroll down to "American Solitude"); he isn't saying he was happy here, but he explains the reasons rather than saying anything was "bad".

Also, I have to speak in Rodnina's defense for a second here. She left Russia in 1992, largely at her husband's insistence. When their marriage broke up, she actually wanted to go back, but her ex-husband wouldn't consent to their daughter going to Russia; so in essence Irina was stuck here until her daughter grew up.

Finally, let's no simplify things into "good" and "bad". One may love some things about a country, yet despise others.

 

[76olympics]

Thanks, Ptichka. I didn't mean to generalize, but the translated interview with Vasilev fired me up! LOL! He was generalizing there himself with the line about American obsession with money. Well, I love to discuss literature and culture myself and don't worship the dollar- despite my nationality. LOL ! Actually, I have always been very interested in Russian history.

Thanks for reminding me about Rodnina's circumstances; actually, I had forgotten them. I just don't care for her though and wasn't surprised about her remark regarding Kavaguti/Smirnov. She doesn't strike me as open-minded or bright. ( But, she was one of the fastest skaters that I remember and no bundle of nerves on the ice for sure).

Tamara Moskvina-OTOH- was very much a product of her background, but I like her very much. Different people, same country and different impressions as you said!

 

[FlattFan]

In Russia though there really are all kinds of ethnic groups anyways, but I think some of the issues with this particular team is the fact that Yuka wasn't trained in the Russian/Soviet system for most of her career. I.e that she's essentially an inport. But for a country with the greatest pairs skating legacy to have to import skaters its a whole different feeling (hurt pride). It would be one thing if it was a sport they didn't have this great tradition in. But for it to be pairs skating, its a whole different feeling.

I also think that K/S really didn't fit the classical Russian style in personality, and instead of working to find a style that suited her team, Moskvina tried to make them something they weren't.

However to be rude to Yuka is really not right.

She followed Moskvina in 1999. It's been more than 10 years. Sandra Bezic and co. said they have the classic Russian style. Moskvina made sure every single hand movement, foot placement Russian. Yuko skating is more Russian than Maria Mukhortova. You think vs. Sandra, Peter said. I say they win.

 

[cxb]

Let all of us not be narrow-sighted on this one!

I kind of agree with Rodnina- though I'm not exactly a tactful person. No offense to Kawaguti, but how sad is it the top Russian pair consists of an "imported" skater. For a country with such a deep skating tradition, it certainly is a sign that the pairs program is remiss.

I can see how that would not sit well with Rodnina.

No offense, but I don't agree with this opinion. I believe that outstanding foreign athletes joining Russia showed how strong Russia is and what a wonderful land this nation can be and the hospitality the Russian people give to the world.

Speaking fluent Russian, Kavaguti is a Russian citizen with a dream of an Olympic medal. As a Russian Olympic athlete, she deserves respect from everyone in and out of Russia.

Rodnina is a legend in pairs figure skating. However no one is perfect in this world.

I think the pressure of continuing Russian's 12 consecutive Olympic victories in pairs figure skating and resentment Yoko encountered, ruined their performance.

However, we all saw that this pair has the highest techniques already. Though they made solid improvements one competition after the other and year by year, they were just teamed up for less than four years. All the Chinese pairs are more than 10 years.

Let us wish all the athletes "Good Luck" and we will cheer for them because we know how hard this sport is.