Backloading Bonus Limited By ISU

[Sam-Skwantch]

As a spectator and long time skating fan, I can tell you that I find heavily backloaded programs to be dull and unbalanced. Just my opinion.

Hmm...I kind of liked the chance for variety and it was really cool seeing programs start off with a StSeq. Not sure I’d remember ever seeing that. Besides...one of the best programs last season from any skater was a backloaded program. Not all of them are dull and unbalanced even as some insist. That’s just not fair IMO nor is it fair to insist that all backloaded programs will always be dull and unbalanced.


https://youtu.be/-QFV79090LI

I’ve never understood the balanced argument though. I don’t think jumps weigh more on a program more than any other element. I think done well all elements are equal and the strengths at which and the weight it adds to a program should be figured out and spread out at the skaters discretion. YMMV

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

 

[EdgeCall]

I always thought there is no greater honor for an athlete than to compel the fed to a rule change in order to keep his dominance under control. Well done Alina, not bad for your first year in seniors.

 

[sailormoon]

The ISU accepted a Japanese proposal. Canada proposed to limit the number of jumps in the second half to two in short and four in free. Japan argued that programs will be more balanced with one in short and three in free with a 1.1 bonus. As a result, the majority supported Japan's proposal.

 

[sweetice]

this is such a JOKE. Anyone who believes this levels the playing field is BLIND.

Try to understand the history behind this rule. The bonus was created for a different purpose than rewarding a massive backloading, so now they have changed that rule for discourage both the full backloading, actually exploited by some, and the full frontloading, that it was the perceived problem that has originated the previous rule.

And if rewarding as before the backloading is right or not is not only a question about Alina, but about Evgenia before, and some juniors now and next.

They have chose a compromise. Maybe the proposed 2-4 was a better choice, but we still need to taking everything into account. Backloading was heavily discussed this past olympic quad.

 

[4everchan]

The ISU accepted a Japanese proposal. Canada proposed to limit the number of jumps in the second half to two in short and four in free. Japan argued that programs will be more balanced with one in short and three in free with a 1.1 bonus. As a result, the majority supported Japan's proposal.

for once, you guys can blame Japan instead of Canada

J/K of course

 

[IndiaP12]

I hated backloaded programs but this is overkill. I would just say 3/7 and 1/3 passes cannot be in the second half.

Also I really wish they didn't name this after Zagitova; she showed what it would be like to the extreme but it makes me kind of uncomfortable that young girls have their names attached to certain part of the scoring system to imply they did something wrong. If backloading played a huge role in increasing her score/increasing people's opinion of her athlete ability, then that's the fault of the system for allowing it and rewarding it, not the fault of the the skater.

Exactly. Poor Alina, it’s not her fault ISU can’t deal with her amazingness [emoji849]

 

[FSLover17]

I didn't really enjoy watching backloaded programs but agree with other posters who say that this is a bit excessive. I'm pretty sure most ladies do 4 jumps in the second half so why are only 3 allowed?
But congratulations to Alina for being so threatening they had to limit her with her namesake rule

 

[IndiaP12]

I like backloaded programs. Or I don’t mind them. Depends on the program. For example, it works well with Alina’s Don Q because the music gets faster and more appropriate for jumping in the second half of the program.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Looking at the positive side, one huge advantage of this is that it legitimately encourages skaters to train harder jumps. It's hard for 3A Mirai to compete with a skater who backloads everything, but this rule brings them closer.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Try to understand the history behind this rule. The bonus was created for a different purpose than rewarding a massive backloading, so now they have changed that rule for discourage both the full backloading, actually exploited by some, and the full frontloading, that it was the perceived problem that has originated the previous rule.

So if this is true...why not just deduct points for front loading in the first place. This is the problem with circumnavigating the relevant issue! The concept used to be that jumping in the second half was more difficult so they decided to reward it. Why on earth didn’t the ISU just deduct points from a frontloaded program if they didn’t want to reward what was once declared to be added difficulty? It’s not as if jumping in the second half suddenly became easier...did it?

This is a bad rule to me because what should have been addressed was backloading in PCS. Language should have been introduced to address programs that backload and don’t adhere to the musical structure or reduce the value of the overall program. That seems to be the issue. I mean how many skaters successfully backloaded??? This is typical ISU and why we’ll be right back here in a Congress or two with the same yet slightly different issues.

I think the idea that jumps weigh on a program more than other elements a little ridiculous though so I’ve been :scratch3: about this for some time.

 

[temadd]

I didn't really enjoy watching backloaded programs but agree with other posters who say that this is a bit excessive. I'm pretty sure most ladies do 4 jumps in the second half so why are only 3 allowed?
But congratulations to Alina for being so threatening they had to limit her with her namesake rule

Skaters can still put the jumps anywhere in the program. They can still back load but will only get the 10% bonus on 3 in the long and 1 in the short.

 

[Shayuki]

[/B]


My first question would be, have you ever been to a live event? As a dancer, I can appreciate and recognize the difference between a difficult and easy step sequence. As an athlete, I also understand how difficult it is to jump in the second half of a long program. As a spectator and long time skating fan, I can tell you that I find heavily backloaded programs to be dull and unbalanced. Just my opinion.

I have been to several live events, yes. I don't really like them, though. With my budget, the view tends to be bad and I can't slow down / rewind stuff that is interesting, I also can't capture clips or watch frame-by-frame. In general, I don't like watching anything live. Now, I don't really understand what that has to do with this, nor do I understand you making a point of you being a skating fan and hence having some authority to decide what is or isn't boring, "trust me". I can just as easily say "As a spectator and a long-time skating fan, I find heavily backloaded programs to be very entertaining" and it carries the same amount of weight. If you actually do fully analyze the steps and turns, it might even be more entertaining with a worse skater than a perfect one because you get to pick at all the different flaws in their skating. If I'm honest, jumps always are an interruption of the magic and hence I prefer them to be tucked in their own section so that the rest of the skate is as pure as possible. Yes, I'd rather watch complex skating with zero spins and zero jumps over a real program, allll day.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Skaters can still put the jumps anywhere in the program. They can still back load but will only get the 10% bonus on 2.

But why would anyone do it? Unless they begin to reward it in PCS or something.

I predict we see a lot of similar program jump layouts :hslap:

 

[Ziotic]

Guys, it’s not like they’ve stopped people from backloading. It’s just now they only get more credit for jumping on tired legs.

I actually think this means we see a lot more difficult combos/ jumps in the back half.

 

[SnowWhite]

I don't hate this, but I would have preferred the Canadian proposal with 2 in the SP and 4 in the FS.

 

[ancientpeas]

There is actual credit (the 10% credit) and perception credit (all judges know doing a jump in the second half is more difficult and with plus 5 goe wiggle room...) I think the judges will continue to reward those who can do beautiful jumps in the second half with more leeway on the goe. Things do tend to balance out.

I'm afraid (at the risk of being an old fogy) that as much as I admired Alina's grit and guts in going completely backloaded I did find the programs unbalanced. I would have gone 2 (short) and 5 (long) myself. I think 3 is a little stingy.

 

[JSM]

I'm wondering, if there are (for example) four jumping passes in the second half, will the first three after the halfway mark get the bonus? Or will the final three passes? (I'm guessing the former, but hopefully this is clarified)

 

[OS]

Yikes!! What a knee-jerk reaction... I hate any limitations of any kind placed on the athletes. I hate judges blame the system for her score when they could have just marked her PCS correctly for imbalanced choreography and very shallow junior presentation that consist of only joy and smiles, then we wouldn't have to be in this mess. The sport need to be all-encompassing, allowing room for youngsters to compete through high TES points because they are not likely able to compete through PCS because they simply have not developed their style or refinement yet, whereas more seasoned skaters may wish to compete through better artistry by creating better-realised programs with in-depth sophistication, advancement, balanced choreography and compete through PCS etc...

The whole thing is all messed up because judges apparently have lost all their ability to score PCS correctly since Sochi or make distinction between that and TES. More than a year ago, I jokingly predicted a skater that will score All her PCS in the first half and all TES in the 2nd half in a 'how to hack the COP' post. However, I don't' think Alina even deserve all her PCS in the first half... certainly not 75!! Huge hike from 62 to less than a few months ago when she won the Junior world with that program, with PCS lesser than Marin Honda at the time. Just where did those extra come from?

Would be curious to see how that affect her program since Alina seems to have been 'imprinted' with the backloading strategy, it will be interesting how she will cope with tired legs if she need to do some of her jumps in the first half and still have the 2nd half she need to work on both her PCS and TES.

 

[yume]

Yes, backloading can become an invisible GOE bullet point.