Battle for bronze medals in pairs and ice dancing

[Pippuripihvi]

This thread turned out to be another all-russians-are-cheating-thread. Stop disseminating slender.

You never know where the loyalty of people lie once they change their citizenship. So stop making accusations that every Russian-born is pro-Russian by default.

 

[chuckm]

This thread turned out to be another all-russians-are-cheating-thread. Stop disseminating slender.

You never know where the loyalty of people lie once they change their citizenship. So stop making accusations that every Russian-born is pro-Russian by default.

How do you know ANY of these judges (Baranova, Balkov, etc) even changed their citizenship? It is possible to live in the US for twenty or more years without ever becoming a US citizen. I'm sure that's true in most other countries as well. Some countries have such stringent citizenship requirements that it is extremely difficult to become a citizen; this is true of the Baltic states.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

How do you know ANY of these judges (Baranova, Balkov, etc) even changed their citizenship? It is possible to live in the US for twenty or more years without ever becoming a US citizen. I'm sure that's true in most other countries as well. Some countries have such stringent citizenship requirements that it is extremely difficult to become a citizen; this is true of the Baltic states.

Because there's no way anyone can represent a country as a judge without being a citizen of that country. It's a law. The same comes for athletes.
And Olga Baranova representing Finland doesn't even have a Russian passport now because Finland doesn't allow two citizenships. So she is no longer a Russian citizen.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Until the ISU eliminates nationalistic judging and hires professional judges/referees nationalism will rear its ugly head. Then there will still be cries of unfair judging--that's endemic to any sport which has a subjective component--but at least it would eliminate national bias.

This is the first Worlds in a longggggggggggg time where I am less interested in who wins bronze as I am in who wins gold and silver. Because that is going to set the tone for the next quad. And I am VERY curious to see how the North Americans will do relative to European dance teams. Because that is really going to set the next quad's tone. Sigh.

 

[gmyers]

When I read the posts my thought became I was In the judging controversy thread! Lol! It was later that I saw this was about bronze in pairs and dance. Well this is how this place is now.

 

[gmyers]

We will stop making accusations when they stop giving us reason to suspect them through farces like the Sochi figure skating competition judging, and suspicious looking judging panels that always seem to pop up at the most opportune times (and that will happen when pig flies)

The isu will pass a rule saying no panel can have two people whose name end with ov or ova /in or Ina / aya because if people have that name if put together on a panel that will mean corruption.

 

[Pippuripihvi]

We will stop making accusations when they stop giving us reason to suspect them through farces like the Sochi figure skating competition judging, and suspicious looking judging panels that always seem to pop up at the most opportune times (and that will happen when pig flies)

Guys, there's a special thread for you to bash Russia and discuss judging issues. Let people here enjoy discussing figure skating.

And you do know that making accusations and assumptions based on someone's nationality is racism?

 

[chuckm]

Nationality has nothing to do with race, so to make assumptions about a person's nationality CANNOT be characterized as racism.

While it is not uncommon for persons with the same cultural background to share some of the same cultural preferences, when it comes to judging figure skating, that should never be such a strong force that four or five judges born within the same culture should somehow just happen to post very similar high scores for skaters from that same culture while at the same time posting significantly lower scores for skaters from different cultures who skate as well or better as the skaters from their shared culture.

That is the problem when you have a panel that has judges from 4-5 former soviet states. In the JGP events, the scores are not shuffled and you can see how each judge marked each skater. I have studied the JGP protocols for years and have found that the former SSR judges invariably give high PCS and GOE to Russian skaters and their own skaters, while giving significantly lower marks to their closest competitors. When there are four or more SSRs on a panel, it is nearly impossible for a non-Russian skater or team to win the event.

 

[elif]

The Judging Controversy Thread

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?49237-The-Judging-Controversy-Thread

 

[hanca]

Another example is Ashley Cain's dad who still is a technical specialist for Australia but lives in Texas.

Don't worry about Ashley Cain's dad. People seem to object only ex soviet judges in the same situation. When it is US person (a judge or Tech Spec) living abroad, everything is suddenly alright!

 

[s_parks]

Megan Duhamel seems very confident. I think she thinks she has a chance of not only a medal here but the gold medal, especialy with Volosozhar & Trankov out. It will be interesting to see how they fare.

They haven't looked especially good this season, though, and Stolbova/Klimov, Sui/Han, and MT/M all seem quite formidable. Not to mention S/S are fully capable of beating them(and pretty much everyone else at worlds), barring a meltdown. Well, anything can happen, and it's nice to see her in good spirits. I guess we'll see.

 

[s_parks]

While I dont like her skating much at all (Eric's is nice) I do admire her positive energy, spirit, and determination. Always have. Best of luck to them. Although a part of me would like to see M-T&M end up top Canadians again here.

:thumbsup:

 

[blue_idealist]

Megan Duhamel seems very confident. I think she thinks she has a chance of not only a medal here but the gold medal, especialy with Volosozhar & Trankov out. It will be interesting to see how they fare.

I don't think they'll win, it'll be S/S or S/K but maybe a bronze.

 

[fairly4]

for pairs

1) stolbova/klimov
2) savenchko/szolkowy
3)bazarionva/larionov
4)peng/zhang
5)moore-towers/moscovitch
6)Duhamel/Radford


dance
1)ilynkh/katsalpov
2)pechalat/bourzat
3)chock/bates
weaver/poje
cappellina/lanotte
bobrovia/soloview

 

[chuckm]

I don't see Chock/Bates on the podium. IMO, the podium candidates are (in no particular order) I/K, B/S, P/B, C/L, W/P.

 

[elif]

Sui/Han skated very good at the 4CC. Their grand prix season is good too, except GPF. They got 73 TES, 64 PCS, 137 overall at 4CC so I think they may get a medal here.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Sui/Han skated very good at the 4CC. Their grand prix season is good too, except GPF. They got 73 TES, 64 PCS, 137 overall at 4CC so I think they may get a medal here.

4CC was, to put it mildly, very generous with their scores to the top teams.When more top teams than not are getting SBs, you have to question the scoring. Not COR or Sochi by any means, but I think generous is a fair term for it.

C/B might surprise people. I'm not saying that a podium finish is likely, but if it does happen I wouldn't be surprised. As I said, I think this Worlds in ID is all about setting up the next quad.

 

[rosacotton]

for pairs

1) stolbova/klimov
2) savenchko/szolkowy
3)bazarionva/larionov
4)peng/zhang
5)moore-towers/moscovitch
6)Duhamel/Radford


dance
1)ilynkh/katsalpov
2)pechalat/bourzat
3)chock/bates
weaver/poje
cappellina/lanotte
bobrovia/soloview

I think C/B could sneak in for the bronze if they have an experience similar to the ShibSibs where several higher-ranked teams stumble and they deliver.

B/L medaling would be a shock; IMO they aren't as good as some of the other pairs.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Olga Baranova representing Finland doesn't even have a Russian passport now because Finland doesn't allow two citizenships. So she is no longer a Russian citizen.

And yet she was hugging all of the Russians as soon as the scores came up and announced Sotnikova as the winner.

Do you know what a 'plant' is?

Ahhhhhh, I guess we shouldn't talk about it in this thread, though.

 

[WeakAnkles]

The judges (as baffling to some as it might be) actually considered the Shibutanis the 4th best team in 2011, so they just needed 1 huge mistake from above to medal. The judges do not consider Chock & Bates the 4th best team in this field, they are a very distant 6th at best based on all the scores of this year. They would need 3 huge mistakes to even have a chance (and even then atleast 1 of those 3 teams would probably still edge them, in 2011 it took a double fall for the Shibutanis to take bronze by less than a point), and you dont see that happen in ice dancing ever. If they were a singles or pairs skater it would be realistic.

I am not predicting a medal for them, but I could see Barazova & Larionov medalling much more easily than Chock & Bates. They were the 4th highest finishers at the Olympics of the teams here despite not even skating that well, and they have beaten everyone in the field minus the Germans many times over. Plus it is pairs, there will be lots of mistkes probably, although B&L lately make alot of them themselves.

They were a Russian team at an Olympics held in Russia. Given the massive inflationary scoring I wouldn't put too much faith in Sochi scoring. But then humans have a remarkable ability to look at doggie doo doo and see chocolate (if they want to see it badly enough).