Belbin-Agosto: A New Free Dance

[chuckm]

I on the other way think this FD is a hundred percent time better than that sloppy one they had before this season.
BUT I still see lots of negative stuffs in this program.
First, when one chooses to skate to any Yann Tiersen music, one has to understand where his music comes from and what it's supposed to reflect. I see none of that here. They just skate to it as if it was only a waltz or a movie score. Sad sad me. Tiersen is so more than only skating to it without trying to understand why his music is always like that makes me very sad. Or feel very old.

I hate to hear condescending remarks like this, implying that Tanith and Ben are too stupid, illiterate and uncultured to be able to understand the meaning of the music. The music was written for the movie "Amelie" and I am quite sure that Ben and Tanith have seen the movie and grasp quite well what the music represents.

Second : it looks like a copy of what Russians D&S are doing. The same kind of interpretation, the same kind of composition. All is said. When you think you're world champion material, you do not and never copy a program made by a team that is supposed to be ranked below you. Big big mistake in ice dance.

Copying DomShabs' Polovtsian dances? Sorry, but I see no similarity between Borodin and Tiersen, or DomShabs' frantic frenzy and B/A's lyric dance.

Third : can someone explain to me the meaning of their costume or the theme of their program ? I didn't get it. Either they are protraying the story of Amélie Poulain in which case it's inappropriate, either they admit they don't have a theme (woooooooo I am a bit sarcastic but people know me that way so I don't caaare).

Perhaps it's the same relationship that DelSHoes black leather outfits have to do with Bonnie and Clyde, two bankrobbers from the 1930s. If that one needs no explanation, then B/A's costumes don't either.

Incidentally, I see no need for Tanith to portray Amelie Poulain, because the music is all about mood and memory, and not about the individual characters. Or don't you get that?

Fourth : stop smiling all the time !!! Ice dance isn't about smiling, it's about interpreting your theme and the music you skate to. And Amélie is not about smile all the time if you think of the movie. It annoyed me when Bourne was doing that perky smile all the time, so I still can't get into it. Maybe it's a north american thing, but I doubt you'd see actual dancers have a perky smile all the time.

They were NOT smiling throughout the entire program. There were poignant moments as well, which is reflective of the music.

And it's another FD I don't like this season. Woooooooo. After olympic years are always dreadfull anyway. Remember 95 with the G&P program ?

That's fine. You don't have to like it. I get the feeling that you would never like anything B/A did anyway, because they are such stupid Americans.

FYI the only ones that got me into them are bulgarians D&S and canadians D&L added to my new queen and king of the ice, Kohklova & Novitski. Oh and maybe Pechalat & Bourzat FD if only they could skate it clean at least once.

As it happens, I like the Bulgarians too, but I think DelSHoes' FD is atrocious because it glorifies crime, and they have difficulty skating it cleanly. Khoklova/Novitski are great if you prefer Pairs skating to Ice Dance. Canadians D/L's FD is a retread of last year's, and as slow as it is, they are still stumbling through the midline step sequences and the twizzles. Pechalat/Bourzat have bizarre costumes and can't handle the difficulty of their choreography.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm not the best person to critique Skate Dance, since I see it as more of a cultural thing than a sport.

Apparently Shipband or however one spells it. is desperately giving B&A an Americana type of dance. The first one was all about stars of hollywood which no red blooded European would buy and the second one goes off as a take off of T&D doing the Fox Trot. I doubt they will buy that either.

I happen to like both of these dances but then I'm an American and I grew up with that kind of ballroom dancing. So to see it flow over the ice is an added pleasure for me. However Ice Dancing has developed into some sort of 'passion' like style that features heartbreak and struggle.. These two dances of B&A will not work. Captive Princesses seduced by evil warriors in the style of silent movies will receive much higher scores. Trust me. I find it hard to think of B&A on the podium.

Joe

 

[chuckm]

Joesitz: how does your theory work with D/L's FD? It's slow and definitely lacking in drama.

 

[MarieM]

I hate to hear condescending remarks like this, implying that Tanith and Ben are too stupid, illiterate and uncultured to be able to understand the meaning of the music. The music was written for the movie "Amelie" and I am quite sure that Ben and Tanith have seen the movie and grasp quite well what the music represents.

The music was made WAY before the movie. In fact, I owned a copy of the piece he re-called "Amelie's waltz" in 1998 or early 1999. Like most of the other pieces used in the movie
It's not a common knowledge even in Tiersen's country, but it's a fact.
When he was contacted for the movie by Jeunet, he didn't have the time to actually create something new, so they re-did several of his pieces to adapt to the movie length. I think only 2 pieces are brand new in the soundtrack, the rest is some old piece of his.
I am sure they grasped what the movie means, but like 98% of my compatriots they don't get Tiersen. It's just that I am ranting on this like I was when Contesti chose to skate to it without making the effort to understand where it came from which was unforgivable for me since HE is french and does not have any excuse. But you're talking to a Tiersen fan, hence my concerns. Note that it's not the anti american feeling you'd like it to be (?).

Copying DomShabs' Polovtsian dances? Sorry, but I see no similarity between Borodin and Tiersen, or DomShabs' frantic frenzy and B/A's lyric dance.

I am talking in term of styles and choreography. And it's the same one.

Perhaps it's the same relationship that DelSHoes black leather outfits have to do with Bonnie and Clyde, two bankrobbers from the 1930s. If that one needs no explanation, then B/A's costumes don't either.

Incidentally, I see no need for Tanith to portray Amelie Poulain, because the music is all about mood and memory, and not about the individual characters. Or don't you get that?

The fact is I do agree there. I don't like either program anyway. At least black outfits fits the song "Bonnie and Clyde" (Gainsbourg) where the idea came from, which isn't probably the american view on Bonnie and Clyde.
But blue ? They should use green, light green, what I call "vert d'eau" or water green if that has a meaning ? Or emerald green. Or maybe the costume is more green than what the video shows ?

They were NOT smiling throughout the entire program. There were poignant moments as well, which is reflective of the music.
That's fine. You don't have to like it. I get the feeling that you would never like anything B/A did anyway, because they are such stupid Americans.

False. I loved their Elvis FD. I loved the thing they did on Sarajevo the year before. I didn't like last year FD at all. And the year before was just ok but nothing special.
That has nothing to do with them being americans.
IT's not because I'm french that I dislike americans for god's sake.

As it happens, I like the Bulgarians too, but I think DelSHoes' FD is atrocious because it glorifies crime, and they have difficulty skating it cleanly. Khoklova/Novitski are great if you prefer Pairs skating to Ice Dance. Canadians D/L's FD is a retread of last year's, and as slow as it is, they are still stumbling through the midline step sequences and the twizzles. Pechalat/Bourzat have bizarre costumes and can't handle the difficulty of their choreography.

It glorifies crime ??? OMG.

Khoklova & Partner are going to be one of the greatest ice dance team. And they are far from pairs skating. I compare them to Bestemianova / Bukin or Klimova and Ponomarenko for what they are already capable of conveying on the ice.
As for Pechalat&Bourzat I agree, they can't skate under pressure. If he doesn't falter, that's her. As for their costumes, I will ask again, but the inspiration came from Béjart (or another contemporary choreographer whose name escape me) rendition of the four seasons piece they're using. Call that modern or abstract more than bizarre.

 

[Big Deal]

I watched the FD on youtube.
It is VERY mediocre. It is sad. Maybe I'm the only one who is not involved in any national biased? I don't think so. I couldn't find any kind of originality in there, and technically simply not good enough.
I can't see this program can lift them on to the podium at Worlds. If it will happen, they will have a difficulty to get ever back there. It is pity, because this was THEIR scheduled year to win to pay back of keeping away Navka/Kostomarov 's real contenders from them in a sure distance (Denk/Stav., Del/Schönf., Drobiazko/Vanagas). In this matter their team to work together is not professional enough to skip this "once in life time" chance..... I'm sorry.
Even if the other couples ' program also not in their best this year ( I haven't seen yet Dubreuil/Lauzon program this year).
Denkova/Stav. and Kohklova/Nov. are the refreshing exceptions in my eyes.
Yes, Domn./Shabalin improved a lot, but they seems they never will be an interesting or lovable couple (nor Navka /Kostomarov ever was). I'm sure the Russian Federation (and the judges, led by it )will realize that in time, giving the crown to the other Russian team before the next Olympic, but unfortunately no other team than Russian will have a chance under this panel of judges.

Unfortunately it seems to be easy to give the World title to the Russians (and not the "right one") even THIS YEAR, which is totally unexpected and not good for this sport(I think).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Joesitz: how does your theory work with D/L's FD? It's slow and definitely lacking in drama.

I like it but it will never win with the 'must have passion' judges who want to see the passion of the faces in the silent movies which were international in films before sound, and acting became matured.

Del Lau will be a good test for acceptance of ballroom type dancing on skates.

Joe

 

[La Rhumba]

We saw 2 beautiful *dancey* Freedances at Euros, and both couples were making their debut and made the top 10, even though the Italians fell.

First the French, Carron & Jost skated a delightful, romantic FD to Edith Piaf songs, she in polka dot dress, he in sleeveless woollen sweater, it was charming from beginning to end, and you wanted to sing-a-long with them, they had some tricky moves and footwork too, it wasn't simple.

Then we had the Italian #2s, Lanotte & Cappellini, dancing a fast paced, steppy FD to "I've Got Rhythm", lots of tap moves, and she looked every inch the showgirl.

Both couples will be back next year - P&B's modern muzak dirge wasn't missed - they were a delight to watch! :agree:

There is soooooooo much more diversity in Ice Dance out there to watch, if only some folk would open their eyes instead of being oh so cynical.

Yes, you could compare Jana Khocklova to Natalia Bestemianova, though not as frantic or OTT in style, as both their partners were/are expressionless planks and just there to lift the female - Kh&N are an Adagio Pair - like B&B they too can't interpret an OD rhythm to save their life!

Svinin's 2 couples at Euros had an *old fashioned* look about them, lots of kilian hold, open side by side skating to generate speed and flow, not the modern Morozov style intricate hold, with interwoven bodies and feet and OTT Drama. It'll be interesting to see which direction Ice Dance takes over the next few years, as they are clearly a couple with the momentum behind them based on this season's results.

DomShabs have improved tremendously, even you didn't like their FD, the quality of their CD and OD meant they were justifiably silver medalists, and some - like former Euros Bronze Medalist Nicky Slater, whose Mother Joan pioneered the sport and was also a former World medalist in the 1950s - thought they were correctly scored 1st in the FD, but DelSchoes were deservedly 1st overall.

IMO the best Judged Ice Dance competition for years, yet still people carp about politics....it's soooo sad and tiresome.

 

[SeaniBu]

There is soooooooo much more diversity in Ice Dance out there to watch, if only some folk would open their eyes instead of being oh so cynical.

I also feel that is true of all the disciplines in FS. People miss a lot IMO by getting hung up on stuff That has been around for SO LONG NOW that they should just accept as a part of FS. It "sounds like" there are a number of viewers - or "fans" of FS - that miss out because they are "fixated" or "bothered by" and just so cynical. ITA

 

[La Rhumba]

Thank Heavens you posted Sean, as I was beginning to despair! It's already started on the Worlds Forum already, the same old stuff, again and again. I truly believe that some folk don't actually *enjoy* the sport, they just use it as a vehicle to moan and be bitter, and see deception and underhandedness at every turn. Euros was fabulous! Thanks to Eurosport we actually got to see most of it, if we couldn't go to Warsaw in person, yet some supposed *fans* just criticise at every turn, you lose the will to live! I actually like to read the forums to keep abreast of skating news and happenings, but I'd definitely have a *cleaner* view of it all if I just had to rely on magazines like the old days.

 

[julietvalcouer]

I *wish* I could have seen Euros and especially the dancing!

Maybe I'm just jaded by having been in rather a few internet fandoms before--the people inclined to post on internet fan boards seem to be the type most inclined to eat their own wounded. I'm used to it.

As for OTT drama in ice dance, my ballroom instructor said something I feel is especially relevant to the OD this year: "If they're doing tango and look constipated, they're doing it wrong."

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

La Rhumba - I've heard a lot of good news about Caron and Jost. Are they going to the Worlds?

 

[La Rhumba]

I do hope so Joe, as I know you will love them, and fingers crossed you get to see their FD especially. The girl has a delightful personality, and the boy is cheeky.

The situation is that Nathalie Pechalat broke her hand in a Gala at Courcheval a few weeks before Euros, but as it's a couple of months away from Worlds, I'm not sure if she'll be healed in time or not? [Don't know the medical details of hand injuries re the lifting etc]. TBH they couldn't have skated any better than Carron & Jost did at Euros, but I guess if recovered then they'll be preferred for Worlds. Hopefully the Edith Piaf FD will turn up on youtube for you. :agree:

 

[MarieM]

Nathalie will be back on time for Worlds.

 

[backoutsideedge]

For your info: Dubreuil and Lauzon choreographed Carron and Jost's FD this year (and OD too I think)!

 

[discoduck]

I haven't seen Amelie so I can't speak as to whether the dance interprets the move or not. I do think the music is nice though and I liked it a lot. I wasn't impressed with That's Entertainment and I'm not impressed with Amelie either. It's all a matter of taste I suppose. I prefer Davis and White myself.

 

[La Rhumba]

For your info: Dubreuil and Lauzon choreographed Carron and Jost's FD this year (and OD too I think)!

Really? Gosh! I didn't know that! They did a magnificent job, with both dances. Obviously a great career ahead as choreographers too! Thanks for the info! :agree:

 

[Spun Silver]

(OT: I didn't know "gosh" was a British expression! )

 

[Mathman]

(OT: I didn't know "gosh" was a British expression! )

I thought they went around saying "Zounds" and "'Sblood!"

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Nathalie will be back on time for Worlds.

Ooooo. Can I see Caron and Jost on youtube?

 

[La Rhumba]

(OT: I didn't know "gosh" was a British expression! )

LOL! I use it all the time! But I'm dead old-fashioned, and not up with the modern lingo....