Blades upgrade for adult learning doubles

[Surge_et_age]

Hello,

I spent hours reading the forum about the blades requests/recommendations, however I am very much interested to get an advise for my individual example. Any information would be much appreciated - you know as an adult intermediate - so hard to find a right option and the risk of injury.. - oh god oh god..

I am an adult skater, 31 y.o, 67 kg, 173 cm.
I got all my singles, (still cracking axel omg when will it be done finally?.. ) and started working on doubles - I land double toeloop and d.salchow off ice (also axel off ice) but its a nightmare on ice somehow, I am on my 1,5 rotation on ice with toeloop and flip and I just cant get my axel last 0,5 rotation - I think I am scared.. hm hm
Spins: scratch spin, sit spin, (fighting with camel spin - probably my back muscles are still not trained enough..) and recently unlocked backspin and back sit spin - love them so much... It feels so good when your body does things your head does not understand

My current setup is: Overture Edea with Ultima Jackson Legacy Light 8 ft.
I skate: 3 years now (I am previously a prof tennis player - so my body condition is good - appart from my back muscles .. that gives me struggles a lot)
This year I am fully commited and skate 5 times a week. (as far as my employer is not complaining hehe)

After fighting with my axel for some time, one of the skaters on ice came to me and told me to get a tighter boot (ice fly) probably seeing my ambitions on doubles too.. and yes my boot is now 2 years old.. maybe its time.. ? However investing in a better boot - I would like to get an upgrade on blades too.
I read here that Ultima legacy is kind of in a "non liking" category. People are complaining about problems with spins.. (I start thinking maybe my spins are not well either? hm..) But honestly I dont think i have any problem with a blade - more with my clumsy body that is still learning to find a spinning axes.

So, for my future Edea Ice Fly and my ambitions on doubles and axel (and my non skating body - I am too tall and heavy I know ) what blade can make me a better skater upgrading from Ultima Jackson Legacy light 8?
My thought was Maxtrix... but after reading the forum, I am hesitant.. I see a lot of adult skaters prefer Gold Seal.. If only they were at least 20% cheaper.. ohhh and they are so heavy? they weight more than my current boot + legacy O.O .. I mean.. My coach told me go either for Gold Seal or if too expensive Coronation Ace.. But CAs have 7ft? If I would have to switch to Gold Seal in 1-2 years why to switch to CA and relearn the spinning spot? Or..? am i missing something?


Thank you so much for any advice.

 

[Girlbird]

I read here that Ultima legacy is kind of in a "non liking" category. People are complaining about problems with spins.. (I start thinking maybe my spins are not well either? hm..) But honestly I dont think i have any problem with a blade - more with my clumsy body that is still learning to find a spinning axes.

So, for my future Edea Ice Fly and my ambitions on doubles and axel (and my non skating body - I am too tall and heavy I know ) what blade can make me a better skater upgrading from Ultima Jackson Legacy light 8?
My thought was Maxtrix... but after reading the forum, I am hesitant.. I see a lot of adult skaters prefer Gold Seal.. If only they were at least 20% cheaper.. ohhh and they are so heavy? they weight more than my current boot + legacy O.O .. I mean.. My coach told me go either for Gold Seal or if too expensive Coronation Ace.. But CAs have 7ft? If I would have to switch to Gold Seal in 1-2 years why to switch to CA and relearn the spinning spot? Or..? am i missing something?


Thank you so much for any advice.

Absolutely upgrade your blade. Coronation Ace is the natural predecessor to Gold Seal if you stay in the JW line, so that makes sense. I don't think the weight is going to be an issue, it may feel heavier but you will adjust to that quickly, and the ice fly is a very light boot. Any time you switch blades there will be a short adjustment period, but by the time you switch to a Gold Seal you should have more honed skating skills and be able to make the transition. I'd save your money for now until you have more solid spin technique.

Remember, a blade doesn't make you a better skater. Your technique makes you a better skater. That being said, having little to no rocker will not hep you.

You can also look at MK Professionals. I have been told is a little bit closer to a legacy, but still has a better rocker. I just switched from a legacy (which I skated on forever) to a MK Professional (Lite... which I didn't really want, I actually prefered the weight and feel of a traditional blade, but it was in stock and I intend to upgrade to a higher blade l once I have my axel and a few doubles) and the difference is apparent. I actually HAVE a rocker and my turns and edgework are so much cleaner.

As for saying "I have a non-skating body"----- STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. If you have a body and you skate, you have a skating body.

 

[Surge_et_age]

Absolutely upgrade your blade. Coronation Ace is the natural predecessor to Gold Seal if you stay in the JW line, so that makes sense. I don't think the weight is going to be an issue, it may feel heavier but you will adjust to that quickly, and the ice fly is a very light boot. Any time you switch blades there will be a short adjustment period, but by the time you switch to a Gold Seal you should have more honed skating skills and be able to make the transition. I'd save your money for now until you have more solid spin technique.

Remember, a blade doesn't make you a better skater. Your technique makes you a better skater. That being said, having little to no rocker will not hep you.

You can also look at MK Professionals. I have been told is a little bit closer to a legacy, but still has a better rocker. I just switched from a legacy (which I skated on forever) to a MK Professional (Lite... which I didn't really want, I actually prefered the weight and feel of a traditional blade, but it was in stock and I intend to upgrade to a higher blade l once I have my axel and a few doubles) and the difference is apparent. I actually HAVE a rocker and my turns and edgework are so much cleaner.

As for saying "I have a non-skating body"----- STOP THAT RIGHT NOW. If you have a body and you skate, you have a skating body.

Thank you so much! yes that with a body - you are right - did not really notice while writing it how it sounds thanks here too for the reflection. I will take it up with me.

ok so Coronation Ace is my choice then. May I ask you if it feels like a not enough upgrade, would you suggest to go better for CA Revolution or Pattern 99 or Coronation Ace Light?
Getting a slightly better equipment than I need - it is such a motivation boost.. and I really need it now as my progress seems ot be stuck for some time..

p.s. I really feel I am close to landing an axel (maybe another 2 months) and then I know it will be in days as I land a double toe loop because this is how it was off ice.. I know (i think i know - maybe I am wrong) CAs are only for singles... so after the axel and 2TL I would have to upgrade them? or.. `?

 

[WednesdayMarch]

I'd recommend Coronation Ace, too, at this stage. And there's no reason you have to upgrade to Gold Seal at any time. You can always go for MK Phantoms or Gold Stars. Or Pattern 99s... But I would honestly go with Coronation Ace right now.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Take this with a grain of salt, because the exact details of rocker profiles seem to be a closely guarded industry secret - but what I've always been told is that while both the MK Pro and the JW Coro Ace have 7' main rockers, the spin rocker of the MK Pro is more pronounced (like the JW Gold Seal and MK Gold Star), while the Ace's is more subtle (like the JW Pattern 99 or MK Phantom).

A few folks on this board have said that the Legacy spin rocker is pretty flat, so I'm guessing that the Ace would be less of an adjustment for you than the MK Pro would be.

 

[MCsAngel2]

Take this with a grain of salt, because the exact details of rocker profiles seem to be a closely guarded industry secret - but what I've always been told is that while both the MK Pro and the JW Coro Ace have 7' main rockers, the spin rocker of the MK Pro is more pronounced (like the JW Gold Seal and MK Gold Star), while the Ace's is more subtle (like the JW Pattern 99 or MK Phantom).

A few folks on this board have said that the Legacy spin rocker is pretty flat, so I'm guessing that the Ace would be less of an adjustment for you than the MK Pro would be.

I read the complete opposite - that the spin rocker on CoroAce is smaller and more defined and the rocker on MKPro is more gradual.

 

[Girlbird]

Thank you so much! yes that with a body - you are right - did not really notice while writing it how it sounds thanks here too for the reflection. I will take it up with me.

ok so Coronation Ace is my choice then. May I ask you if it feels like a not enough upgrade, would you suggest to go better for CA Revolution or Pattern 99 or Coronation Ace Light?
Getting a slightly better equipment than I need - it is such a motivation boost.. and I really need it now as my progress seems ot be stuck for some time..

p.s. I really feel I am close to landing an axel (maybe another 2 months) and then I know it will be in days as I land a double toe loop because this is how it was off ice.. I know (i think i know - maybe I am wrong) CAs are only for singles... so after the axel and 2TL I would have to upgrade them? or.. `?

It could be days, it could be months… only the ice will tell you

CAs can handle some doubles as can MK pros, as is my understanding anyway. As for getting a light/rev blade it’s really not going to make a difference at our level. Triples and quads, maybe. It’s not really an upgrade, just a gimmick and more money. I wouldn’t have bought mine had I had a regular blade available right away. I didn’t want to wait. It was also $30 more, which, ya know, is half a lesson or several FS sessions!! Yeesh. But then again, a lite blade would pair well with an ice fly.

You CAN go for a pattern99 if you want, or phantoms or gold seals or gold stars... In the end it’s up to you, but I personally would save your money and use it on training instead for now. Again, the blade is an important tool but it doesn’t make up for not having the technique unfortunately!

 

[Girlbird]

Take this with a grain of salt, because the exact details of rocker profiles seem to be a closely guarded industry secret - but what I've always been told is that while both the MK Pro and the JW Coro Ace have 7' main rockers, the spin rocker of the MK Pro is more pronounced (like the JW Gold Seal and MK Gold Star), while the Ace's is more subtle (like the JW Pattern 99 or MK Phantom).

A few folks on this board have said that the Legacy spin rocker is pretty flat, so I'm guessing that the Ace would be less of an adjustment for you than the MK Pro would be.

Interesting. This is also the opposite of what I’ve heard but maybe it would explain why I am having a terrible time learning to spin again on my new MK pros after being on a legacy since 2004 (long wait during which they sat around ). I know it will be worth it, my dream blade is gold stars but only if my spins improve

 

[Elija]

Interesting. This is also the opposite of what I’ve heard but maybe it would explain why I am having a terrible time learning to spin again on my new MK pros after being on a legacy since 2004 (long wait during which they sat around ). I know it will be worth it, my dream blade is gold stars but only if my spins improve

Same. I found CA too curvy for my liking, definitely not ‘subtle.’ Great for turns, but weren’t my cup of tea. I was under the impression gold seal and gold star had a similar very curved spin rocker - I have not tried these blades though so can’t say from personal experience, just what I’ve heard from people who have skates on both.

 

[WednesdayMarch]

Interesting. This is also the opposite of what I’ve heard but maybe it would explain why I am having a terrible time learning to spin again on my new MK pros after being on a legacy since 2004 (long wait during which they sat around ). I know it will be worth it, my dream blade is gold stars but only if my spins improve

My Gold Stars are spinning machines! Although, thinking about it, that might be me; I can spin on MK Dance, so... But seriously, they are the nicest blades for spinning I've ever had. And I loved my Phantoms.

Surely, anything should be easier than Legacy?!

 

[Surge_et_age]

My Gold Stars are spinning machines! Although, thinking about it, that might be me; I can spin on MK Dance, so... But seriously, they are the nicest blades for spinning I've ever had. And I loved my Phantoms.

Surely, anything should be easier than Legacy?!

Yeah.. I don’t know how I managed to choose legacy 2 years ago… somehow I also did a research and found that under 200 euros that was the best choice.. who knew who knew if I invested just a little more my technique would have been better by now with CAs.. (? Hm?)
It worth’s saying on our ice hour of non professional adult skaters (but not the Public skate hours) - I am one of the best spinners so far *saying shy* but my foot work is shit really let’s see if CAs push me for better skating

 

[Girlbird]

My Gold Stars are spinning machines! Although, thinking about it, that might be me; I can spin on MK Dance, so... But seriously, they are the nicest blades for spinning I've ever had. And I loved my Phantoms.

Surely, anything should be easier than Legacy?!

I worked really hard to learn to spin on the legacy and was able to center my upright spins for a while so it’s just an adjustment now, but yes, it is easier… when I find the right spot. I’ve only been on them for a little over a week now. It’s probably me - my technique too a dip while I was struggling with broken down boots and then boots that caused me pain and… long story, but I’m having to adjust to a lower heel and not having to grip my feet in my boot to stay in place.

 

[double_sal_gal]

I read the complete opposite - that the spin rocker on CoroAce is smaller and more defined and the rocker on MKPro is more gradual.

Quick backstory: I skated on MK Pros as a kid and a young adult. For some reason I can no longer remember, I switched to Coronation Aces right before I took a 10-year break from skating, and when I returned to the ice a few years ago, I struggled with them long after I got past most of the expected "10 years off the ice" struggles. This summer, after checking with my coach/blade tech/fitter, I finally switched back to MK Pros (I got the Lites because they were in stock and I didn't want to wait). Things were vastly improved even on my first session with the new blades -- I found it easier to center spins, I could spin a lot longer and faster, and my turns also felt easier and more natural. I was really struggling with backward 3s in the CoroAces (I've passed both Preliminary and Adult Silver MITF a decade ago, so I definitely had them back then on my old MKs) and I've made much more rapid progress on those in the new blades.

That's just me, and it probably has to do with my unique skating history and preferences. But before I switched back to MKs, I did a lot of research on here and elsewhere, and the general consensus seemed to be that spinning is slightly easier for many people with MK Pros than with CoroAces. I'm sure that varies from skater to skater and I have no idea how OP's switching from an 8' rocker to a 7' one might complicate that with regard to spins even though the spin rocker is a different thing. But I'm happier with the MK Pros than I was with the CoroAces, and I expect either would suffice to take me through regaining my axel and early doubles.

I'd love to upgrade to Gold Stars or Phantoms someday, but that's not currently in my budget and I really don't need an advanced blade at this point. A girl can dream, though!

 

[Girlbird]

Quick backstory: I skated on MK Pros as a kid and a young adult. For some reason I can no longer remember, I switched to Coronation Aces right before I took a 10-year break from skating, and when I returned to the ice a few years ago, I struggled with them long after I got past most of the expected "10 years off the ice" struggles. This summer, after checking with my coach/blade tech/fitter, I finally switched back to MK Pros (I got the Lites because they were in stock and I didn't want to wait). Things were vastly improved even on my first session with the new blades -- I found it easier to center spins, I could spin a lot longer and faster, and my turns also felt easier and more natural. I was really struggling with backward 3s in the CoroAces (I've passed both Preliminary and Adult Silver MITF a decade ago, so I definitely had them back then on my old MKs) and I've made much more rapid progress on those in the new blades.

That's just me, and it probably has to do with my unique skating history and preferences. But before I switched back to MKs, I did a lot of research on here and elsewhere, and the general consensus seemed to be that spinning is slightly easier for many people with MK Pros than with CoroAces. I'm sure that varies from skater to skater and I have no idea how OP's switching from an 8' rocker to a 7' one might complicate that with regard to spins even though the spin rocker is a different thing. But I'm happier with the MK Pros than I was with the CoroAces, and I expect either would suffice to take me through regaining my axel and early doubles.

I'd love to upgrade to Gold Stars or Phantoms someday, but that's not currently in my budget and I really don't need an advanced blade at this point. A girl can dream, though!

We’re blade twins. MK Pro lites!

 

[MCsAngel2]

Quick backstory: I skated on MK Pros as a kid and a young adult. For some reason I can no longer remember, I switched to Coronation Aces right before I took a 10-year break from skating, and when I returned to the ice a few years ago, I struggled with them long after I got past most of the expected "10 years off the ice" struggles. This summer, after checking with my coach/blade tech/fitter, I finally switched back to MK Pros (I got the Lites because they were in stock and I didn't want to wait). Things were vastly improved even on my first session with the new blades -- I found it easier to center spins, I could spin a lot longer and faster, and my turns also felt easier and more natural. I was really struggling with backward 3s in the CoroAces (I've passed both Preliminary and Adult Silver MITF a decade ago, so I definitely had them back then on my old MKs) and I've made much more rapid progress on those in the new blades.

That's just me, and it probably has to do with my unique skating history and preferences. But before I switched back to MKs, I did a lot of research on here and elsewhere, and the general consensus seemed to be that spinning is slightly easier for many people with MK Pros than with CoroAces. I'm sure that varies from skater to skater and I have no idea how OP's switching from an 8' rocker to a 7' one might complicate that with regard to spins even though the spin rocker is a different thing. But I'm happier with the MK Pros than I was with the CoroAces, and I expect either would suffice to take me through regaining my axel and early doubles.

I'd love to upgrade to Gold Stars or Phantoms someday, but that's not currently in my budget and I really don't need an advanced blade at this point. A girl can dream, though!

On a related note, for all the technical analysis I've seen on different blades, I have *never* seen a discussion about putting together an ideal boot blade combo. By which I mean, If you try out a Riedell Silver Star, a Jackson Debut, and an Edea Ice Fly, all with a Coronation Ace blade, they will all feel different and not just because of the boot material. The heel height and boot pitch is going to affect where your weight goes on the blade, and every blade model has a different rocker profile (CoroAce smaller and more defined spin rocker, MKPro larger and more gradual spin rocker) and stanchion heights (some blades the rear stanchion is notieceable higher than the front, I *think* including the CoroAce, and some blades the stanchions are much closer in height).

I think it'd be a fascinating science to study but it's almost impossible to do properly because it's cost prohibitive to buy every combination of every boot model and every blade model. The only thing I've figured out is Ultima blades (made by Jackson) are very often pushed with Jackson boots. Ultima blades have a strong rep for being flatter rockered, and at the same time Jackson boots have a rep (now) for having a really high heel and pitch. I have to wonder how many people started out with a Jackson combo and later tried to put their high heeled boots with a CoroAce, with a higher rear stanchion and small forward spin rocker, and had massive trouble with it. Must be tons of people, CA's are so popular, but it sounds like a terrible combination to me. Another combination I think most people would have trouble with would be a Riedell boot (low heel) and an Ultima blade (flatter rocker).

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hello,

I spent hours reading the forum about the blades requests/recommendations, however I am very much interested to get an advise for my individual example. Any information would be much appreciated - you know as an adult intermediate - so hard to find a right option and the risk of injury.. - oh god oh god..

I am an adult skater, 31 y.o, 67 kg, 173 cm.
I got all my singles, (still cracking axel omg when will it be done finally?.. ) and started working on doubles - I land double toeloop and d.salchow off ice (also axel off ice) but its a nightmare on ice somehow, I am on my 1,5 rotation on ice with toeloop and flip and I just cant get my axel last 0,5 rotation - I think I am scared.. hm hm
Spins: scratch spin, sit spin, (fighting with camel spin - probably my back muscles are still not trained enough..) and recently unlocked backspin and back sit spin - love them so much... It feels so good when your body does things your head does not understand

My current setup is: Overture Edea with Ultima Jackson Legacy Light 8 ft.
I skate: 3 years now (I am previously a prof tennis player - so my body condition is good - appart from my back muscles .. that gives me struggles a lot)
This year I am fully commited and skate 5 times a week. (as far as my employer is not complaining hehe)

After fighting with my axel for some time, one of the skaters on ice came to me and told me to get a tighter boot (ice fly) probably seeing my ambitions on doubles too.. and yes my boot is now 2 years old.. maybe its time.. ? However investing in a better boot - I would like to get an upgrade on blades too.
I read here that Ultima legacy is kind of in a "non liking" category. People are complaining about problems with spins.. (I start thinking maybe my spins are not well either? hm..) But honestly I dont think i have any problem with a blade - more with my clumsy body that is still learning to find a spinning axes.

So, for my future Edea Ice Fly and my ambitions on doubles and axel (and my non skating body - I am too tall and heavy I know ) what blade can make me a better skater upgrading from Ultima Jackson Legacy light 8?
My thought was Maxtrix... but after reading the forum, I am hesitant.. I see a lot of adult skaters prefer Gold Seal.. If only they were at least 20% cheaper.. ohhh and they are so heavy? they weight more than my current boot + legacy O.O .. I mean.. My coach told me go either for Gold Seal or if too expensive Coronation Ace.. But CAs have 7ft? If I would have to switch to Gold Seal in 1-2 years why to switch to CA and relearn the spinning spot? Or..? am i missing something?


Thank you so much for any advice.

Coronation Ace or MK Professional is high rated enough for you right now and would help your spins. Also, I wouldn't go right for the ice fly which are too high rated for your level and skills right now, you shouldn't need to upgrade your edea to more than a Concerto right now, you could even get away with Chorus.

 

[double_sal_gal]

I have to wonder how many people started out with a Jackson combo and later tried to put their high heeled boots with a CoroAce, with a higher rear stanchion and small forward spin rocker, and had massive trouble with it. Must be tons of people, CA's are so popular, but it sounds like a terrible combination to me.

Oh, wow, that's almost what I did. I'd been in Riedells for my entire skating life. When I came back to the ice 2-3 years ago, my barely used CoroAce blades were fine but my also barely used Riedell Gold Star boots were way too squishy (this was the model from maybe 2012 or so), and I let myself be talked into switching to Jackson Premiere Fusion boots, still with the CoroAce blades. I'd been out of the skating world for so long that I didn't really know what questions to ask, so I went with it. Even as I got all my single jumps back and made good progress on relearning spins and moves in the field, I never felt quite steady on my feet. The higher heel height turned out to be a pretty big issue (I'm 5'9" so already pretty tall and I think this made it harder to center my weight), and in combination with that blade, it was just not an ideal situation for me.

I got the new MK blade this summer and skated with it on the Jacksons for about 6 weeks, then got a great deal on a new pair of Riedell Bronze Stars that I'm currently breaking in with the MK blade, so at least I didn't switch boots and blades all at once. I haven't jumped yet but my spins and turns are even more improved, as is my confidence. It's really amazing how much of a difference those seemingly minor changes can make. I'm just glad I've finally found the combo that works for me.

 

[theadultskater]

We’re blade twins. MK Pro lites!

How do you both like them? What boot are they paired with? @double_sal_gal

 

[eclipse]

have to wonder how many people started out with a Jackson combo and later tried to put their high heeled boots with a CoroAce, with a higher rear stanchion and small forward spin rocker, and had massive trouble with it. Must be tons of people, CA's are so popular,

I feel like a lot of it has to do with anatomy for sure. I am in Jacksons and have skated with both coronation aces and gold seals. I had great issue with spinning consistently on the coronation aces however when I swapped over to gold seals everything seemed to just click almost in an instant. That and certain turns definitely became easier mainly twizzles and loops which is apparently very counterintuitive considering coro's are rounder blades but I found the blade being flatter added a stability when doing the above.

 

[Lucie]

On a related note, for all the technical analysis I've seen on different blades, I have *never* seen a discussion about putting together an ideal boot blade combo. By which I mean, If you try out a Riedell Silver Star, a Jackson Debut, and an Edea Ice Fly, all with a Coronation Ace blade, they will all feel different and not just because of the boot material. The heel height and boot pitch is going to affect where your weight goes on the blade, and every blade model has a different rocker profile (CoroAce smaller and more defined spin rocker, MKPro larger and more gradual spin rocker) and stanchion heights (some blades the rear stanchion is notieceable higher than the front, I *think* including the CoroAce, and some blades the stanchions are much closer in height).

I think it'd be a fascinating science to study but it's almost impossible to do properly because it's cost prohibitive to buy every combination of every boot model and every blade model. The only thing I've figured out is Ultima blades (made by Jackson) are very often pushed with Jackson boots. Ultima blades have a strong rep for being flatter rockered, and at the same time Jackson boots have a rep (now) for having a really high heel and pitch. I have to wonder how many people started out with a Jackson combo and later tried to put their high heeled boots with a CoroAce, with a higher rear stanchion and small forward spin rocker, and had massive trouble with it. Must be tons of people, CA's are so popular, but it sounds like a terrible combination to me. Another combination I think most people would have trouble with would be a Riedell boot (low heel) and an Ultima blade (flatter rocker).

According to the measurements done by Bill Schneider in this very interesting thread (see post 2) the CA has front and rear stanchions that are pretty much the same height, while the MK pro has higher rear stanchions

skatingforums- Comparison between MK Pro vs Ace

skatingforums- Comparison between MK Pro vs Ace

skatingforums.com

It would definitely make sense that putting a blade with a higher rear stanchion on a boot that already has a higher heel might cause issues especially if the skater is used to the opposite set up. The issue of blade profile in combination with boot pitch and heel height seems complex, and may be one of the reasons there is so much trial and error to find a combo that suits a skaters individual preference