Bored by the Ladies and Pairs

[gio]

Exactly, from Biellmann to Cohen, that's more than twenty years. And how long did we have CoP in place? Do people really believe that no lady has been niether creative nor artistic under CoP?

In your opinion, who is creative and artistic now?

 

[Wrlmy]

In your opinion, who is creative and artistic now?

Creative: Suguri Fumie, Irina Slutskaya, Joannie Rochette all did creative programs under CoP. Yukari Nakano's Geisha program was also excellently done. Carolina Kostner's last year's and this year's sp programs.

Artistic: Sasha Cohen, Yuna Kim, Alissa Czisny, Shizuka Arakawa (improvement from technically more demanding yet less artistic 2004 Turandot), Mao Asada, Caroline Zhang with huge potential.

I probably forgot to mention more names. Of course, you can disagree, but I do feel these ladies are doing perfectly fine with CoP.

 

[gio]

Creative: Suguri Fumie, Irina Slutskaya, Joannie Rochette all did creative programs under CoP. Yukari Nakano's Geisha program was also excellently done. Carolina Kostner's last year's and this year's sp programs.

Artistic: Sasha Cohen, Yuna Kim, Alissa Czisny, Shizuka Arakawa (improvement from technically more demanding yet less artistic 2004 Turandot), Mao Asada, Caroline Zhang with huge potential.

I probably forgot to mention more names. Of course, you can disagree, but I do feel these ladies are doing perfectly fine with CoP.

You didn't understand what I have said! I'm not criticizing CoP! I did say that I really liked Irina Totentanz and Spanish Techno and Sasha Dark Eyes. These were programs done under CoP.
I'm talking about new skaters who wants all to be ballerinas and no one is artistic nor creative.
This is not to blame CoP, but it is a trend that started already in the beggining of this century.

 

[gio]

Creative: Suguri Fumie, Irina Slutskaya, Joannie Rochette all did creative programs under CoP. Yukari Nakano's Geisha program was also excellently done. Carolina Kostner's last year's and this year's sp programs.

Artistic: Sasha Cohen, Yuna Kim, Alissa Czisny, Shizuka Arakawa (improvement from technically more demanding yet less artistic 2004 Turandot), Mao Asada, Caroline Zhang with huge potential.

I probably forgot to mention more names. Of course, you can disagree, but I do feel these ladies are doing perfectly fine with CoP.

Suguri, Slutskaya, Rochette, Cohen and Arakawa are skaters of the older school.

I agree with Czisny and Yu Na.

 

[Vodka Shot]

I can't comment on COP vs. 6.0 because I didn't watch skating till after 6.0 was done away with, but I do know I find pairs and especially ladies to be incredibly boring yes. I loved Slutskaya and Cohen. I wish more would skate like them.

 

[Wrlmy]

Suguri, Slutskaya, Rochette, Cohen and Arakawa are skaters of the older school.

I agree with Czisny and Yu Na.

Yes. But my point is they were doing just as good or even better under CoP in terms of artistry.

 

[gio]

Yes. But my point is they were doing just as good or even better under CoP in terms of artistry.

It's not CoP to blame IMO. CoP does not say you cannot skate to Frankie Goes To Hollywood.
IMO, coaches and choreographers are to blame. And maybe judges too.

 

[gio]

Yes. But my point is they were doing just as good or even better under CoP in terms of artistry.

Slutskaya and Cohen had their own style, that was different from all the other skaters!!! JMO

 

[Wrlmy]

Slutskaya and Cohen had their own style, that was different from all the other skaters!!! JMO

Yes very true. And under 6.0, we had a bunch of mediocre skaters with not much individuality of whatsoever and a few great skaters with their own style as well. As you mentioned in your other post, I'm not for blaming the system. Whether a skater can deliver an artistic, stylish, technically demanding program depends on her, coach's, and choreographer's ability.

 

[gio]

Yes very true. And under 6.0, we had a bunch of mediocre skaters with not much individuality of whatsoever and a few great skaters with their own style as well. As you mentioned in your other post, I'm not for blaming the system. Whether a skater can deliver an artistic, stylish, technically demanding program depends on her, coach's, and choreographer's ability.

I agree, but as for now we don't have a skater with a style of her own. Yu Na, Asada, Zhang, Czisny may be artistic, but their artistry is very similiar = baby ballerinas.
Probably with the exception of Yu Na's Tango De Roxanne and Czisny's Quadukka, which were a little bit different.

 

[Wrlmy]

I agree, but as for now we don't have a skater with a style of her own. Yu Na, Asada, Zhang, Czisny may be artistic, but their artistry is very similiar = baby ballerinas.
Probably with the exception of Yu Na's Tango De Roxanne and Czisny's Quadukka, which were a little bit different.

Don't worry, Sasha used to be a baby ballerina, and she blossomed into a stylish, unique skater. The only thing I have to disagree is that Yuna doesn't fit into the stereotype of baby ballerina. She's more like young Kwan IMO.

 

[SkatingAnalyst]

I agree, but as for now we don't have a skater with a style of her own. Yu Na, Asada, Zhang, Czisny may be artistic, but their artistry is very similiar = baby ballerinas.
Probably with the exception of Yu Na's Tango De Roxanne and Czisny's Quadukka, which were a little bit different.

Please do not categorize Yu-Na as "baby ballerinas"

BECAUSE----------

I've never seen more beautiful ARTISTRY on the ice than Yu-Na !!!http://www.stage6.com/Figure-Skating/video/1167623/2007/03/25-Yu-Na-KIM-(KOR)-Exhibition

and I've never seen a skater who does edge jumps lighter than Mao.

Yu-Na and Mao do skate in their own magnificent styles!!!

 

[sillylionlove]

The ladies are boring to watch lately. All the spiral sequences looks the same since the COP. That's when I started to lose a little interest. The pairs are the same....no on can skate a clean program..I don't even know who half the teams are...no creativity....boring!

There are so many great men out there. As for dance...wow....there's competition there...maybe becuase it's not being dominated by the Russians.

 

[laceup]

I understand what people are saying when they say the boringness of some skating has been brought about by CoP.
Tech. now everything is a point game so you often see the same lift over and over in pairs, the same spins over and over in singles and pairs ... etc... because coaches figure out what is worth the most and then everyone sees that a spin is worth more if I do this or that so everyone does it. It has taken the originallity out of elements. If given an option to do a spiral sequence or a line of footwork, the girls will always pick the spiral which is much easier to get a level 4 than in footwork.
Having said that, there should still be some time left over and therefore a greater effort put into artistry to max out the points in the second mark ... all the inter., choreography, transitions ... marks must count for something.

 

[Wrlmy]

I feel the same about spiral sequence. That is probably one thing I really hate about CoP. That said, spiral sequence requirement has been shortened from last year. Now, ladies need to do three different positions compared to last year's four, and that is one less misery. I think (and hope) spiral sequence requirement will change into something more reasonable and pleasing to eyes.

 

[kyla2]

Not Boring

Mao and Yu Na are not boring in any respect. Beautiful skaters and beautiful programs. Their off ice personalities are more subdued than the typical American personality but that is fine and partially due to our language and culture differences. I think they both bring alot to skating.

 

[Mathman]

... because coaches figure out what is worth the most and then everyone sees that a spin is worth more if I do this or that so everyone does it. It has taken the originallity out of elements.

I totally agree with this assessment.

But on the other hand, I am not sure it was any different under the old judging system. Skaters looked around at what was winning championships and tried to copy it.

 

[fourclover]

Mao and Yu Na are not boring in any respect. Beautiful skaters and beautiful programs. Their off ice personalities are more subdued than the typical American personality but that is fine and partially due to our language and culture differences. I think they both bring alot to skating.

Totally agree with you. I tuned back into ladies figure skating after >15year absence because of them.

 

[Tonichelle]

I totally agree with this assessment.

But on the other hand, I am not sure it was any different under the old judging system. Skaters looked around at what was winning championships and tried to copy it.

exactly, people were taking from certain coaches for a reason... in the old system it was who you were buddy buddy with

now it's which elements you use...

which in the long run is better for the SPORT.

 

[ChrisH]

Here's how the judges scored Caroline's last two elements at the Skate America free skate:

12 LSp4 2.60 1.50 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 - - 4.10
13 CCoSp3 3.00 1.00 2 2 2 2 2 3 2 2 2 1 - - 4.00

Words can't describe how beautiful that finish was.

I just noticed that one judge gave her a 1. :chorus: :chorus: