Conflicts among the roles of feds, managing companies, coaches, & skaters

[Audrey19]

Alyona is a different story. Her exclusion from the army had nothing to do with Steuer, and was totally her own choice. Here is an old GS thread from 2 years ago with the info - http://goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12811.

OK, I obviously got that wrong. I stand corrected.

 

[sorcerer]

Is it popular for skaters in Europe or NA to have contracts with management firms such as IMG?

In Japan many do, and among the top senior skaters maybe only Nakano self-manages. (Since she recently obtained support from Prince Hotels, this may also change, though...)

So it must be costly; what kind of merit does such cost of management bring to the skaters?
Ordinary fans like me have only vague knowledge of their roles.
We seldom hear of them, aside from occasions like the Yu-na's case an year ago or the recent Mao-Artunian case.

 

[Mathman]

^ According to the IMG web site, they represent all of the following skaters

Miki Ando, Japan
Mao Asada, Japan
Kurt Browning, Canada
Jeffrey Buttle, Canada
Todd Eldredge, U.S.
Evan Lysacek, U.S.
Jamie Salé & David Pelletier, Canada
Alexei Yagudin, Russia
Kristi Yamaguchi, U.S.

They have a long association with Scott Hamilton and Stars on Ice, and now I believe they own the tour outright. For some reason, I think that IGM-Japan has a certain degree of corporate autonomy from the U.S. company, but I am not certain of this. IMG was also the driving force, moneywise, in the ill-fated World Skating Federation that tried to challenge the ISU’s Olympic credentials after the Salt Lake judging scandal.

Skating and winter sports, however, are only a small part of their activities as sports agents. In fact, I get the impression that they have put figure skating on the back burner to concentrate on more lucrative sports venues.

What do they do? As far as I know, the primary job of a business agent/publicist is to drum up opportunities for their clients to make money. The agent then takes a certain percentage as his fee. They send out press releases touting their clients and try to solicit commercial endorsements, etc. Presumably Kimmie Meissner’s agent at IMG negotiated her advertising contract with Under Amour sports clothing that is being discussed on the other thread, for instance. They may have played a role in getting Kristi a shot at being on the television program Dancing with the Stars, and with Sasha’s appearance on Celebrities’ Hidden Talents.

Michelle Kwan’s long time business agent is Shep Goldberg. Goldberg is a one-man show, as opposed to a big agency (although he had an association with Tom Collins’ Champions on Ice Tour at one time – at least he shared an office with them.) Prior to Michelle, Goldberg’s most famous client was Olympic gymnast Mary Lou Retton. He was quite successful, I believe, in finding a lot of opportunities for Retton as a motivational speaker, long after her athletic career was over.

IIRC, Goldberg was recommended to Michelle’s family by Michelle’s coach Frank Carroll when Michelle decided (against her coach’s advice) to jump to seniors at age thirteen. It was clear to Mr. Carroll that Michelle was going to be big time and would have need of an agent to handle both business opportunities and the press. In fact, one of Goldberg’s duties was to shield the very young Michelle from being hounded by newspaper and television people. He has recently taken on Caroline Zhang as a client, in a similar role. He attended almost all of Michelle's major competitions, to guide her through press conferences, etc.

I’m not sure what role Mr. Goldberg and other agents play, for instance, in negotiating with the USFSA and private sponsors for skaters’ participation in cheesefests and shows. I read once, when Michelle was at the peak of her popularity, that Goldberg’s office was routinely deluged with requests for Michelle to make appearances on behalf of various charities. After filtering these, Goldberg would call Michelle and ask her which ones she wanted to do. According to the account I read, Michelle, of necessity, became very decisive, sometimes talking to her agent while riding her stationary bike: “Yes, I’ll do this, No I won’t do that, Bye till tomorrow.”

I presume that the agent plays a large role in securing those million dollar endorsement deals that skaters like Michelle and Mao are able to land (I wonder what the agent’s percentage is on a million dollar deal.) For skaters who are not that big yet, I would assume that they must pay a fee to the agency to take them on at the beginning -- after which all parties hope for the best.

 

[JewelInTheSun]

Hey,
I'm from Germany and I think, it's a shame what the German Skating Union does with Savchenko/Szolkowy and their coach Ingo Steuer. Aljona and Robin are at the moment the only team that can win medals for Germany. And not only this, they are currently the best team in the world.
Just of Ingo Steuers Stasi past they don't be encouraged. It should come already for a long time to an agreement but nothing happens. In winter 2007 a conversation should have been made but the DEU canceled it because they would not have Steuers counsel with them.
Besides, I think it's very unfair for Aljona and Robin. They must live on sponsoring from a car dealer and Robin was thrown out of German armed forces because he would not parted company with Ingo Steuer...
It's ridiculous what happens in German figure skating.

 

[Medusa]

It's ridiculous what happens in German figure skating.

I honestly don't think that the matter is handled well in Germany, but we are not talking about a simple thing here, it's not a DUI (not that DUI is harmless) - it's about a man who some time ago (between 1985 and 1989) agreed to spy on others, who was paid for spying, who apparently reported several fellow skaters to the GDR-secret-service, who was valued as a good and reliable spy. This is not insignificant. Yes, he was young and yes, he grew up knowing nothing but this communistic regime - but not everyone who grows up in bad times turns out to be someone who is ready to betray his colleagues and friends.

When Steuer joined the army (2003) he lied about his past, saying that he was never involved with the Stasi. He was also playing down his role, saying that he didn't harm anyone, that it was a different time etc. - not really acknowleding his mistakes. He admitted that he agreed to work as a spy because it seemed normal to him and because he was afraid that his career would end if he refused.

For anyone who is able to read German, these two articles shed some light:
Süddeutsche Zeitung
MDR

As I said, I don't think it's being handled well, but I don't think that it's ridiculous either. And to say that we should ignore his past - just because he happens to be successful with S/S right now - seems rather opportunistic to me. Put yourself in the place of the NOK and DEU - what would you do? Of course we also allowed Furtwängler and Karajan to continue with their careers despite their membership in the NSDAP - but there was and is no evidence that either of them ever worked actively against colleagues etc. (they didn't work against the Nazi-regime either - but it's pretty difficult to punish that).

It's a difficult problem and shouldn't be ignored just because he happens to be successful right now. The problem needs to be discussed, there has to be a way to find a sensible solution, perhaps there should be an official explication and apology by Steuer etc. That would be the best way - but I don't know if there is a solution. This is not just a political formality, for some it's very personal - I have friends and relatives from the Ex-GDR who somehow managed to live through that time without ever betraying their friends and colleagues - and who are pretty satisfied with the fact that one of the guys who was part of the secret service that scared and bullied the population - doesn't get to represent the country with the blessing of the government / official institutions.

 

[Hsuhs]

Besides, I think it's very unfair for Aljona and Robin. They must live on sponsoring from a car dealer and Robin was thrown out of German armed forces because he would not parted company with Ingo Steuer...It's ridiculous what happens in German figure skating.

I, too, think it's ridiculous: all that blackmailing and treating a couple of excellent skaters that way. In a recent interview with Aliona I read that she and Robin'd had to buy their own Olympic gear before they headed to Torino. I think this even tops the USFS/ Johnny Weir and JFS/ Nobunari Oda issues.

 

[cassieandcheetah]

I, too, think it's ridiculous: all that blackmailing and treating a couple of excellent skaters that way. In a recent interview with Aliona I read that she and Robin'd had to buy their own Olympic gear before they headed to Torino. I think this even tops the USFS/ Johnny Weir and JFS/ Nobunari Oda issues.

Can we hope that things will change though now that they're world champions? I feel so bad for them that they have to be treated like this. At least they don't have to battle for Ingor to come with them before every competition like they used to....and yet I find it so touching that they have stayed with him through thick and thin....

However, l also agree with Medusa in that I think what he did in the past is not insignificant...So I guess the question is, HOW should we deal with the past? Has he been punished enough, or is it right for Germany not support the team indefinitely? I have no answer to that, but we'll see how they're received by the government after this season.

 

[Ptichka]

Medusa, great post!
I, too, agree that it wasn't handled the best way possible by the federation; however, Steuer did not handle it well either. Perhaps I would have had pity for him if he came out right away with an admission and an apology; as it is, he continued to deny it as long as he could, and only relented when he had no other choice. Alyona and Robin suffering for all that, of course, is a whole different story.

 

[Audrey19]

I think we all share the opinion that it was not right what he did, and that he should have apologized. However, the real problem is that they made such a big deal out of it. As a GDR citizen, you had to be obedient, otherwise, you were at worst sent into prison. So when Steuer was asked to spy for the STASI, he didn't really have a choice. If he had disagreed, he surely would have had to abandon his career as a skater. Maybe others would have spied on him. And he grew up under this system, it was even kind of normal to be involved with the STASI for a lot of people. If everyone who once joined the STASI would have been punished this way, a large amount of people would have had similar problems like loosing their job due to their past. And that definitely is not the right solution.
I think we shouldn't blame him now after so much time has passed.
The DEU should focus on bigger problems, like the lack of novice skaters.

 

[Medusa]

As a GDR citizen, you had to be obedient, otherwise, you were at worst sent into prison. So when Steuer was asked to spy for the STASI, he didn't really have a choice. If he had disagreed, he surely would have had to abandon his career as a skater. Maybe others would have spied on him. And he grew up under this system, it was even kind of normal to be involved with the STASI for a lot of people.

Yes, it surely was a tricky situation. That's why lots of former Stasi spies weren't punished. One of the reasons the NOK decided to pursue the Steuer-case was the fact that his file proved that he was a very good spy, that he denunciated lots of colleagues, that he was ready to involve himself even more than the Stasi wanted him to!

MDR
Die Stasi-Akten erzählen möglicherweise etwas anderes. Über die Berichte, die der Trainer Ingo Steuer geschrieben hat, sagt der Historiker und DDR-Experte Hubertus Knabe: "Ich habe selten so offene Denunziationen und Spitzeleien gelesen."

Auch die Bewertung der Birthler-Behörde fällt sehr kritisch aus. Sie hat den Trainer Ingo Steuer aufgrund der Stasi-Akten als "eilfertigen und beflissenen Mitarbeiter der Stasi" eingestuft. Es gibt Beispiele, die das verdeutlichen: So schwärzte IM "Torsten" u.a. einen Paarlauf-Kollegen bei der Stasi an, er würde mit Videokassetten handeln, die "harte Pornos" enthielten. Steuer wollte sich in den Handel mit einklinken – doch lehnte sein Führungsoffizier diese Art Recherche ab.

It's possible that the Stasi files tell another story. The historian and expert on DDR-history Hubertus Knabe said about the reports Steuer wrote: "I have rarely read such explicit denunciations."

The evaluation of the Birthler-institution is also very critical. Because of the Stasi-files they classified him as an "assiduous and hasty coworker of the Stasi". There are examples that make that clear: For example denunciated IM "Thorsen" (his Stasi codename) one fellow pair-skater to the Stasi, because the skater was apparently dealing with videos, that contained "explicit pornographic material". Steuer wanted to get involved with the business - but his leading officer didn't approve of this kind of investigation.

And excuse me please but "I had to spy because otherwise my career would have gone downhill" is a rather lame excuse. It is also no reason for his excellent spywork - the NOK found 9 people who worked for the Stasi among the hundreds of coaches they investigated before Torino 2006. 6 of them weren't punished because they just did some minor stuff for the Stasi. That proves that the NOK didn't say "You were working for the Stasi - no more Olympics for you" - they really investigated every single case.

There were not many people who said no to the Stasi - but there were some.

Süddeutsche Zeitung
Er sagt: Zu behaupten, jeder habe gespitzelt, verhöhne all diejenigen, die sich der Stasi verweigert haben. 1985, als Steuer seine Verpflichtungserklärung unterschrieb, ging die Stasi im Bezirk noch weitere 1995 Personen an. 175 sagten "nein".

He (a historian) said: To say, that everybody spied, mocks all those who refused to work for the Stasi. 1985, when Steuer signed with the Stasi, the Stasi asked 1995 other people in the area for help. 175 of them refused.

The DEU should focus on bigger problems, like the lack of novice skaters.

I am sorry, but the last time I checked figure skating was just a sport. The lack of novice skaters is - to me - entirely unsignificant.

Wherelse the history of the Stasi and its "coworkers" seems to be a fundamental problem in our history and politics - to me it's a question of National identity. And of course I am somehow sorry that Steuer had to become the poster-child for this problem, especially because S/S suffer from all of it despite being innocent bystanders. But in my opinion the problem is not solved by saying "it's all in the past, let's forget about it".

 

[sorcerer]

So skating federations must think of the sport in the long run, guarding the sport's ethical legitimacy. ..Must be one of their missions.
In this limited sense this S/S case and Oda's DUI case seem to have similarity.

At the same time the feds' task is primarily to make the best out of skaters' potentials.
Then it shouldn't be the skaters' but the feds' responsibility to find a way to make such two tasks of feds compatible.

F'rinstance if I were JSF, I'd have at least let Nobu participate in the GP series, under a condition as punishment that if he doesn't medal twice there, then no Nationals for him.
Of course there should have been a much better idea than this.

 

[hockeyfan228]

F'rinstance if I were JSF, I'd have at least let Nobu participate in the GP series, under a condition as punishment that if he doesn't medal twice there, then no Nationals for him.
Of course there should have been a much better idea than this.

I disagree with this completely: it's saying that if you are a world-class athlete, the law does not apply to you, if you can perform well enough in competition.

If they had said, "You must be alcohol free for the duration of the season and complete any legal requirements, and if you qualify at Nationals, we may choose you for the team," then that would have taken his offense in mind. However, in the hierachy of values of the JSF, he had disgraced himself and them, and he was going to be punished, which makes it a different cultural reaction than ours..

 

[Mathman]

I disagree with this completely: it's saying that if you are a world-class athlete, the law does not apply to you, if you can perform well enough in competition.

I think many Americans would take this view: Yes, the Law applies to Oda, but the Japanese Skating Federation is not the Law.

However, in the hierachy of values of the JSF, he had disgraced himself and them, and he was going to be punished, which makes it a different cultural reaction than ours.

Oda himself felt such shame and disgrace that he voluntarily punished himself beyond the penalty that the Japanese federation meted out, and far beyong any considerations of law.

The Japanese Figure Skating Federation would have allowed him to skate at Nationals and try to make the World team. But Nobunari was so ashamed that he could not show his face.

 

[sorcerer]

Nobu fulfilled the legal requirements by paying fine and being suspended of his driver's license for some time.
This has nothing to do with being a top skater.

What Mathman has written, the fed is not the law to skaters, would be so in any country.

I'm saying, beyond the law, that if whatever a skater did outside the skating domain offended the sportmanly ethic, the fed that govern the sport should meet both needs, the need to guard the grace of the sport and the need to promote the skater's potential, both on the fed's responsibility.

Punishment by the fed is okay but that's nothing legal, it inevitably turns out to be adhoc and arbitrary.
Since it's arbitrary-fated, then punishments should be in proportion with the skaters' intension behind the ethical offence, whether of carelessness or of evil mind.

If out of carelessness, the punishment should show that carelessness costs huge care and positive effort in return.
It shouldn't show that carelessness in return brings negative denial to your chance to make up for it.

BTW it wasn't disgrace that was in question, it was the resposibility to play the role model for the society in question (especially the younger generation). Athletes show what effort really means, they bring hopes for the better, gives you courage and energy. They are in a way demanded to be the ideal of diligence. ...Though exaggerated, a bit characteristic to Japan, maybe?

Anyway, cleaning the river-bed as a volunteer for some months was way enough as punishment, IMO.