COVID-19: Coping and Social Distancing

[Mathman]

Let me get this straight: are you complaining that a store that sells "non-essential goods" can still be open because they sell lotto tickets...

TontoK is complaining that the government has declared by fiat that lotto tickets are "essential purchases," like milk and bread. They are not. By pushing such an obvious lie, the government diminishes its moral authority and risks losing the the support and cooperation of the populace.

 

[moonvine]

TontoK is complaining that the government has declared by fiat that lotto tickets are "essential purchases," like milk and bread. They are not. By pushing such an obvious lie, the government diminishes its moral authority and risks losing the the support and cooperation of the populace.

I've been wondering why the heck they didn't shut that stuff down because my BIL still insists on going out to get tickets. Now I know, I guess. Disappointing.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I encourage everyone who is good at gardening to plant a vegetable garden this year, especially in the USA.

The closing of the Smithfield pork plant points out real vulnerabilities with the way food is produced in this country.

https://business.financialpost.com/...ely-warns-of-meat-shortages-during-pandemic-2

You might want to raise chickens, too.

I have three types of lettuce, swiss chard and onion sets in the ground...any suggestions for more food that grows in northern climes? I CAN grow cherry tomatos.
Its terrible that lettuce producers are plowing under their crops, milk producers are dumping milk down drains, and tomato growers are letting their crops rot....shades of 1930 depression America. Better the governors buy the crops and give them to the food banks.....I can certainly see spot shortages of certain food items for sure. Any country that is "just in time" systems dependant with its food supply is in danger. If it can happen to toilet paper, which is still out, it can happen to bacon.

 

[CoyoteChris]

TontoK is complaining that the government has declared by fiat that lotto tickets are "essential purchases," like milk and bread. They are not. By pushing such an obvious lie, the government diminishes its moral authority and risks losing the the support and cooperation of the populace.

Isnt that the truth! I have lost about all faith in our government of any party and in any state or federal level. I am proud I didnt vote for any of them. A certain southern Governor stated that he wasnt aware that covid was contagious before symptoms and that is why he didnt order a lockdown!!! A Boyscout who listened to Bill Gates in 2015 would have been more prepared.... It is time for politicians to be pushed aside and let science lead the way to answers.

 

[dorispulaski]

https://www.veseys.com/ca/vegetables

@CoyoteChris,
Re what can you raise in cold pockets, we used to live in one.

Vesey's Seeds operates out of Prince Edward Island, Canada. When we lived in northern Vermont, we always did well with anything they sold. The place we lived, Underhill Center, had frosts pretty much throughout May, and was likely to have its last frost in August. Using black plastic over the soil to retain heat worked really well, especially for tomatoes, squashes, green peppers, and cucumbers. (Green tomatoes can be ripened on spaced out on cardboard sheets in a dark, dry place, like under a bed.) We were able to have tomatoes through Thanksgiving most years.

Green beans, broccoli, cabbage, chard, cauliflower, and peas all did well for us, as did radishes and herbs. Sweet corn and potatoes do well, but required more pest control than we wanted to do. Asparagus does well, but we never got into it. So do strawberries, raspberries, and blackberries.

 

[Dafna]

I have three types of lettuce, swiss chard and onion sets in the ground...any suggestions for more food that grows in northern climes? I CAN grow cherry tomatos.
Its terrible that lettuce producers are plowing under their crops, milk producers are dumping milk down drains, and tomato growers are letting their crops rot....shades of 1930 depression America. Better the governors buy the crops and give them to the food banks.....I can certainly see spot shortages of certain food items for sure. Any country that is "just in time" systems dependant with its food supply is in danger. If it can happen to toilet paper, which is still out, it can happen to bacon.

CoyoteChris, you can do a lot more in northern climate. My friend that lives in Worcester, MA, every year plants: onions all kinds, green leaves (spinach, Swiss chards, kale etc), potatoes, green beans, tomatoes, turnips, even aubergine goes very well in her garden. She says peppers don’t do good though. You might want to compare the climate of your city/area with hers Worcester, MA (half hour west of Boston).
I live in Virginia, and here is much warmer. I have put my seeds into germination 10 days ago. Usually I plant tomatoes, peppers and aubergine. After hearing the news 10 days ago, I planned to extend my garden with many more vegetables. I wish I knew how to raise chicken, but I don’t know, and I don’t know how my city regulations are pertaining raising farm animals, I am not sure.
As for the farmers letting the tomatoes rot, reminds me (I spent part of my life in Europe), French vine makers used to throw vine away in the sea, the years with extra production, and Italian farmers used to put in the ground tomatoes with big excavators, sorrounded by huge mountains of tomatoes.... all these images fresh in my mind like it was yesterday. I am talking Europe in the 80s.
But Doris, thank you for your advice! We all are thinking about that. Has anybody any other way of producing our own food?

 

[el henry]

Regarding Lotto tickets, I don't know about other states, but in Pennsylvania the state lottery tickets are sold at convenience stores and gas stations. Convenience stores and gas stations are essential because they are selling food and gas, not because they are selling lottery tickets

No one has said the state lottery is essential. But unless the state is going to police every sale inside a gas station or a convenience store, the lottery will continue. (and yes the state could shut down the system? Why? To prove a point?)

Politicians are people, I have faith in some, and not in others, but I can say without delving into partisan politics that I try my very best to vote in every election ever, from local primaries to national elections. It's the least I can do

Growing vegetables. Sigh. I'll just be feeding the squirrels, rabbits and birds, but I can give it a try

 

[Mathman]

and yes the state could shut down the [state lottery] system? Why? To prove a point?)

Here in Michigan the point that the governor is making is that gas stations and convenience stores cannot enforce the social distancing guidelines for all the customers queued up at the lottery window. There are never any long lines of people trying to buy gasoline or food -- and if there were, that would just make it worse because they would have to bunch up with the lottery customers in a confined space. Hence it makes sense to allow people to go to these stores to make essential pirchanses, but not frivolous ones.

 

[TallyT]

Regarding Lotto tickets, I don't know about other states, but in Pennsylvania the state lottery tickets are sold at convenience stores and gas stations. Convenience stores and gas stations are essential because they are selling food and gas, not because they are selling lottery tickets

They're sold at newsagents here. A lot of shops are still open, and blessed if I can work out the whys and wherefores of those that are (ice cream???? I saw three yesterday, all open and serving). Home handyman places like Bunnings and craft shops, books/music/games, all seem to be doing well, not surprisingly.

And yes, the newsagents are selling lots of lotto etc.

Growing vegetables. Sigh. I'll just be feeding the squirrels, rabbits and birds, but I can give it a try

I think the wildlife would laugh and any effort of black-thumbed me... we got some free seedlings from one of the stores late last year, and managed a handful of small and, err, interestingly shaped tomatoes and radishes, one beetroot and a late and healthy crop of kale which we don't like and can't give away!!! On the other hand, our mini citrus trees - lemon, lime and mandarin, look like having a bumper crop.

 

[el henry]

Here in Michigan the point that the governor is making is that gas stations and convenience stores cannot enforce the social distancing guidelines for all the customers queued up at the lottery window. There are never any long lines of people trying to buy gasoline or food -- and if there were, that would just make it worse because they would have to bunch up with the lottery customers in a confined space. Hence it makes sense to allow people to go to these stores to make essential pirchanses, but not frivolous ones.

I’m so confused. So the MI lottery is shut down? That is definitely a good point about lines for lottery tickets, in the stores I saw pre-shutdown they would do a business? I guess since I have never bought a lottery myself, (well when I was a working stiff I would chip in for the office tickets, but that was just to join in the fun) I should not opine.

 

[Mathman]

I’m so confused. So the MI lottery is shut down?

I think the details are still being worked out. A week ago there was a certain amount of public pressure on the governor to limit lottery sales in various ways. But this week the tide seems to have turned and now there are protests that the governor has gone too far with her lock-down restrictions. Meanwhile, on-line lottery sales are going strong.

Home handyman places like Bunnings and craft shops, books/music/games, all seem to be doing well, not surprisingly.

Here it varies from state to state. In Michigan, our big home improvement stores can sell "essential supplies," but not their usual full range of products. The only problem is that they are out of "essential supplies" like cleaning products and disinfectants that people might want to buy.

Today I spent several hours driving around town trying to find thermometers. My wife is making coronavirus kits for all of her friends including home-sewn face masks . We found one "Dora the Explorer" thermometer for children at a dollar store and otherwise had to settle for those meat thermometers that you stick in your beef roast to make sure it is cooked thoroughly. (I am not sure where humans are supposed to stick them, but they do seem to work. You need a thermometer to make sure that you really are good and sick before you head off to the Emergency Room.)

 

[CoyoteChris]

https://www.veseys.com/ca/vegetables

@CoyoteChris,
Re what can you raise in cold pockets, we used to live in one.

Vesey's Seeds operates out of Prince Edward Island, Canada. When we lived in northern Vermont, we always did well with anything they sold. The place we lived, Underhill Center, had frosts pretty much throughout May, and was likely to have its last frost in August. Using black plastic over the soil to retain heat worked really well, especially for tomatoes, squashes, green peppers, and cucumbers. (Green tomatoes can be ripened on spaced out on cardboard sheets in a dark, dry place, like under a bed.) We were able to have tomatoes through Thanksgiving most years.

Green beans, broccoli, cabbage, chard, cauliflower, and peas all did well for us, as did radishes and herbs. Sweet corn and potatoes do well, but required more pest control than we wanted to do. Asparagus does well, but we never got into it. So do strawberries, raspberries, and blackberries.

You know, I used to do radishes.....and we still do herbs like Basil.....I am spaying up my last garden so I will give it a thought.... One store is out of seeds and yeast is hard to find, actually. But I really like cherry tomatos....They have to go into the ground around the end of May and I buy big plants....Late in the season, we cover them and sometimes bring plants into the base ment in 5 gallon buckets.....

 

[CoyoteChris]

CoyoteChris, you can do a lot more in northern climate. My friend that lives in Worcester, MA, every year plants: onions all kinds, green leaves (spinach, Swiss chards, kale etc), potatoes, green beans, tomatoes, turnips, even aubergine goes very well in her garden. She says peppers don’t do good though. You might want to compare the climate of your city/area with hers Worcester, MA (half hour west of Boston).
I live in Virginia, and here is much warmer. I have put my seeds into germination 10 days ago. Usually I plant tomatoes, peppers and aubergine. After hearing the news 10 days ago, I planned to extend my garden with many more vegetables. I wish I knew how to raise chicken, but I don’t know, and I don’t know how my city regulations are pertaining raising farm animals, I am not sure.
As for the farmers letting the tomatoes rot, reminds me (I spent part of my life in Europe), French vine makers used to throw vine away in the sea, the years with extra production, and Italian farmers used to put in the ground tomatoes with big excavators, sorrounded by huge mountains of tomatoes.... all these images fresh in my mind like it was yesterday. I am talking Europe in the 80s.
But Doris, thank you for your advice! We all are thinking about that. Has anybody any other way of producing our own food?

Mass is down there at 42 degrees North....I am up at about 49 but I will take some of Doris' suggestions!

 

[TontoK]

I’m so confused. So the MI lottery is shut down? That is definitely a good point about lines for lottery tickets, in the stores I saw pre-shutdown they would do a business? I guess since I have never bought a lottery myself, (well when I was a working stiff I would chip in for the office tickets, but that was just to join in the fun) I should not opine.

You should always opine because I like you.

As I understand it, the main point of contention is that a person can enter a store a find that some items are "not for sale" because they didn't make the governor's cut as an essential item. So a person can be in a store, see the product, literally reach across a police-tape-type of barrier, and put it in the cart. However, they cannot purchase the item, because it is non-essential.

For example, one of the non-essential items is paint, although other home maintenance supplies did make the "OK List." I think that some people at home might think, "Gosh, honey, we're locked in the house anyway, now would be a good time to paint the kids' rooms." So, they head to a store to pick up "essential items" but learn that they can't buy the paint.

So the family thinks, "Who decided that paint is not essential, but lottery tickets are?" And for that matter, alcohol? And marijuana from the local dispensary?

Also.. "We've got a cabin in the woods. We should go there to isolate ourselves and keep the kids safer." Sorry, you can't travel between residencies... but if someone from out of state owns the cabin near yours, then they CAN go to the woods and stay in their cabin.

There was some confusion about buying seeds, that angered people who wanted to get their gardens started early indoors. The last I heard there was a lot of finger-pointing among government officials as to who made that rule, and I still don't know if that has been clarified or not. However, critics cry that the governor doesn't even want people growing their own food.

I'm not a citizen of Michigan, so I'll leave them to hash it out, but the rules seem arbitrary. Some of the questionable items seem like they are revenue-generators for the state... lottery, alcohol, pot... but if that's the basis for their inclusion, it's hard to make the case that public safety is at the heart of the essential/non-essential debate.

Edit: I realize that what I consider essential or non-essential is not what someone else would think. And that's the point. What's essential for one person isn't for someone else.

 

[el henry]

You should always opine because I like you.

As I understand it, the main point of contention is that a person can enter a store a find that some items are "not for sale" because they didn't make the governor's cut as an essential item. So a person can be in a store, see the product, literally reach across a police-tape-type of barrier, and put it in the cart. However, they cannot purchase the item, because it is non-essential.

....

Thank you my friend and likewise. Even when you're wrong (Not that I am ever wrong)

I think governors have a hard road to hoe and I am willing to cut them slack. As you say, what is essential to you may not be essential to me. When all this first started, because I tend to be a sanguine person and for no other reason, I was not as troubled. "Cancel Worlds? Why cancel Worlds?"

But I can be convinced, and I am now convinced, and really, kwitcher bitchin' (not you, in general) and get on with life as it is now. Truly, is there anything that someone just can't order from Amazon? I know you can get seeds from Amazon, I've done it

However, I am selfish and I really would like to see a skating season in the fall. I don't know.....

 

[Mathman]

It is getting quite nit-picky and convoluted in Michigan. Marijuana is "essential" but only for curb-side pickup. No instore sales.

Liquer stores are "essential" and open. But restaurants cannot include alchoholic drinks even as part of take-out meals. (In fact, a group of restaurant owners has sued the governor over this, suit pending.)

On today's news they showed some rallies against the governor, complete with "Lock her up" chants. Some bar patrons were recently fined $1000 apiece for not following the rules (whatever they are?) about drinking in bars.

I think the bottom line is that the state government is committed to stopping people from gathering together in violation of social distancing guidelines. It's not so much whether marijuana or liquor is essential or not, but rather, how to keep people from massing together to buy these commodities.

 

[TontoK]

Truly, is there anything that someone just can't order from Amazon? I know you can get seeds from Amazon, I've done it

However, I am selfish and I really would like to see a skating season in the fall. I don't know.....

A point of disagreement, and a point of agreement.

I work in partnership with K-12 and post-secondary schools. One of the things that has become abundantly clear during this situation is that while we assume that just about everyone has some sort of computer proficiency, that is not the case at all.

It's hard for a parent to help a young student at home when that parent may have no idea of basic computer use. I had to communicate with one mother through Facebook messaging because she didn't have an email account and didn't know how to use it. She just had Facebook because it was pre-loaded on her phone when she bought it and a friend helped her set up an account. I share this NOT to disparage this person, but to illustrate my point about computers and internet literacy. There have been numerous other times when I've had to stop myself from wondering how this person managed to navigate the modern world.

My own dear mother and father passed away a few years ago. My mother would have been fine ordering supplies online. My father would not.

On the second point, I agree. I'm ready for skating.

Edit: Many households near me do not have a computer in the home or any sort of internet connection. Schools are printing assignments for these students, and parents are picking them up and dropping them off at the lunch pick-up sites. Many of the students here are from economically disadvantaged homes. I can't imagine driving everyday to pick up a free ham and cheese on white bread for my kid every day, but the free lunch program must continue because it is important to so many families.

 

[el henry]

whole post...

We do agree that the capacity to transact business online and the capacity to even access the internet is not at all equal. Trying to hard to stay within the boundaries here, in my state, much of the pushback is from a "Don't Tread on Me" perspective and not from insufficient resources perspective, so that colored my response.

The current crisis brings those insufficient resources home.

 

[CoyoteChris]

They're sold at newsagents here. A lot of shops are still open, and blessed if I can work out the whys and wherefores of those that are (ice cream???? I saw three yesterday, all open and serving). Home handyman places like Bunnings and craft shops, books/music/games, all seem to be doing well, not surprisingly.

And yes, the newsagents are selling lots of lotto etc.



I think the wildlife would laugh and any effort of black-thumbed me... we got some free seedlings from one of the stores late last year, and managed a handful of small and, err, interestingly shaped tomatoes and radishes, one beetroot and a late and healthy crop of kale which we don't like and can't give away!!! On the other hand, our mini citrus trees - lemon, lime and mandarin, look like having a bumper crop.

You cant give away kale??? I make this fantastic Portugese Kale soup...and my wife just stir fries it and ads some red wine vinegar...
In the states, ice cream is considered a basic food group. :agree:

 

[CoyoteChris]

We do agree that the capacity to transact business online and the capacity to even access the internet is not at all equal. Trying to hard to stay within the boundaries here, in my state, much of the pushback is from a "Don't Tread on Me" perspective and not from insufficient resources perspective, so that colored my response.

The current crisis brings those insufficient resources home.

Some day someone will realize that the internet is a utility, like electricity...needed for a normal life.
https://www.kut.org/post/austin-isd...bjgM1LRibp3SAQuQi0CrMGHECFH05824Lxaok9God24X0