Czisny Suffers Another Training Setback

[chloepoco]

My personal posting philosophy is not to say anything I would say to that skater/coach/poster's face in person. I know its bothersome when people attack me via voicemail, email or Facebook comments (I work in a job where such an opportunity exists), knowing that those people really wouldn't say that to my face.

So I wouldn't like it if someone told me to quit my job w/o knowing my personal situation, so I avoid doing so here.

Thank you, Mrs. P; I totally agree with you, and cannot believe some of the things I'm reading in this thread!!

 

[Mathman]

As for her knowing when to quit I disagree her results and inability to manipulate COP was clear by her world placements as well she sort of petered out at the end and sort of just faded - like to the point we have no idea when she really called it quits.

Michelle gave everything she had. They had to carry her off the battlefield on her shield.

 

[meem]

IMO Kwan didn't know when to call it quits. She was too injured to compete at '06 Nationals (and had been injured for quite some time already at that point) yet she refused to step back and allow another American skater, Sarah Hughes, to be a part of the opening ceremony in Torino, have the thrill of walking behind the flag (sure Sarah eventually got to Torino to compete but it would have been nice if she'd had the whole experience). Michelle had already competed in two Olympics, and yes, we were lucky to see several beautiful performances for the next couple of years. But even after she couldn't compete at Nationals she still wouldn't face reality that her body was "done". I've always been a fan of MK but that decision of hers really bothered me.

Snip. Some would say that Kwan should have retired after Nagano, then she gave us three more gloriuos years. Some said that she should have retired after Salt Lake, then she gave us those beautiful National programs. By the time Torino arrive there wasn't much of her left. I bow to her for knowing when to call it quits.

 

[skateluvr]

"I like Elegie" and "You should quit now, get a job, and try to pay back the money that your parents threw down the toilet on your so-called skating career" are not exactly comparable, IMHO.

I said I like Elegie BUT NEVER SAID QUIT NOW GET A JOB, PAY THE MONEY BACK! Please fix that MM and do not scapegoat me-an apology would be in order.

Quote the correct people, please! And quick. How unfair to put someone else':disapp:s words in my mouth! Ethics?

 

[skateluvr]

The post dissapeared. trying to delete posts-no deleting as the one i responded to is gone.

 

[coolboogie22]

They should give the spot to Kaetlyn Osmond. Seriously, I know that sometimes it is strategic and that the USA want to maximize their chance to get a spot to the GPF, but it is not fair to let Alissa Czisny in the group and call a WITHDRAW in the last minute.

Even if the U.S. wants to protect their skater for the Grand Prix Final. Kaetlyn Osmond will be there at 4CC and Worlds and the USA will be forced to compete against her anyway in the future.

Giving the spot to Kaetlyn Osmond instead of Czisny would be very interesting and politically correct because in the competition, NHK, will determine the best ladies who deserve the GPF and will confirm the showdown : Suzuki vs Osmond. After this challenge of Osmond, we would see if Osmond is really better than Suzuki in a second times.

 

[demarinis5]

IMO Kwan didn't know when to call it quits. She was too injured to compete at '06 Nationals (and had been injured for quite some time already at that point) yet she refused to step back and allow another American skater, Sarah Hughes, to be a part of the opening ceremony in Torino, have the thrill of walking behind the flag (sure Sarah eventually got to Torino to compete but it would have been nice if she'd had the whole experience). Michelle had already competed in two Olympics, and yes, we were lucky to see several beautiful performances for the next couple of years. But even after she couldn't compete at Nationals she still wouldn't face reality that her body was "done". I've always been a fan of MK but that decision of hers really bothered me.

Snip. Some would say that Kwan should have retired after Nagano, then she gave us three more gloriuos years. Some said that she should have retired after Salt Lake, then she gave us those beautiful National programs. By the time Torino arrive there wasn't much of her left. I bow to her for knowing when to call it quits.

I think you have the Hughes sisters mixed up. It was Emily not Sarah who took Michelles' spot in Torino. Sarah won 2002 Olympics.

 

[noskates]

Maybe I have a short memory but I really don't remember Michelle ever embarassing herself in her last couple of years. I think she pulled the plug when she knew it was time. She had more to her life than skating and wanted to pursue her education, etc. And on that - she's done remarkably well!

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

IMO Kwan didn't know when to call it quits. She was too injured to compete at '06 Nationals (and had been injured for quite some time already at that point) yet she refused to step back and allow another American skater, Sarah Hughes, to be a part of the opening ceremony in Torino, have the thrill of walking behind the flag (sure Sarah eventually got to Torino to compete but it would have been nice if she'd had the whole experience).

Maybe Kwan was in denial, but certainly she earned the right to give it her best. She put her life on hold after SLC for another shot at the Olympics and won 3 national titles and a world title during that period. If she was close to being able to perform well she had every right to try until the last minute, which she did. I'd prefer her to determine herself that she had no chance to compete than to take herself out early and regret not giving it a shot, especially since a clean 6 triple LP would have won her the gold. This is in contrast to our current group of skaters who do NOT withdraw in time and perform poorly while injured.

 

[Mathman]

I said I like Elegie BUT NEVER SAID QUIT NOW GET A JOB, PAY THE MONEY BACK! Please fix that MM and do not scapegoat me-an apology would be in order.

Quote the correct people, please! And quick. How unfair to put someone else':disapp:s words in my mouth! Ethics?

The part about get a job was posted by Sk8boi in post 15. I was contrasting what you wrote (post 23) with a contentious post upthread (post 15 by Sk8boi).

Since Sk8boi's post dominated the discussion (causing several subsequent posts to be deleted and edited for guideline violations, by the way) I did not expect any confusion to arise about who said what. I am sorry if any readers got the wrong impression.

Anyway, what I was trying to say, however clumsily, was this. Should skaters read Internet forums? Sure, if they encounter happy thoughts like, "I love your exhibition number, I hope you make it into a competitive program," as posted by skateluvr. Not so much if they read about how horrible a skater and how a horrible a person they are.

 

[R.D.]

...yet [Kwan] refused to step back and allow another American skater, Sarah Hughes, to be a part of the opening ceremony in Torino, have the thrill of walking behind the flag (sure Sarah eventually got to Torino to compete but it would have been nice if she'd had the whole experience). Michelle had already competed in two Olympics, and yes, we were lucky to see several beautiful performances for the next couple of years. But even after she couldn't compete at Nationals she still wouldn't face reality that her body was "done". I've always been a fan of MK but that decision of hers really bothered me.

You're referring to EMILY Hughes, of course- Sarah was the one who won in SLC.

 

[R.D.]

Maybe Kwan was in denial, but certainly she earned the right to give it her best. She put her life on hold after SLC for another shot at the Olympics and won 3 national titles and a world title during that period. If she was close to being able to perform well she had every right to try until the last minute, which she did. I'd prefer her to determine herself that she had no chance to compete than to take herself out early and regret not giving it a shot, especially since a clean 6 triple LP would have won her the gold. This is in contrast to our current group of skaters who do NOT withdraw in time and perform poorly while injured.

:think: Here's the thing though: A "crappy" skate by MK was still considered better in the judges' eyes than a good/great skate by any of the other Americans not named Sasha Cohen. Now, it can be argued whether that fact still made it right for her to keep trying and hanging on, but she usually did respectably, if not great. 2005 worlds was sub-par for her and she still managed 4th. I bet even Wagner would love to end up 4th if she had a bad skate(s).

To get somewhat back on topic, contrast that with Czisny's best and worst performances. At her best she managed ~5th; at her worst, well, don't need to draw that picture for you as you already saw what it looked like. I'm not sure what MK was thinking in heading to Torino in the shape she was in, but eventually she did the right thing and pulled out in time for Hughes to go. Also consider that the level of national competition is significantly higher now than it was during the Kwan years: back then it was MK, Cohen being top 4 in the world and 3rd best American (Jenny Kirk) could only muster 16th at best, let alone everyone else. Now, perhaps the top 5 or 6 at Nationals could potentially place in the top 10 at worlds at their very best, but they all lack consistency. So, I think now our ladies are much more "exchangeable" than they were. That is a key point that played out with the Flatt drama in 2011 and the Czisny drama last season. If Czisny pulled out, Zawadzki could have easily done better than 22nd (I don't think she would have done well enough for the 3 spots, but that doesn't matter now). Zhang too. Heck, even Gao, Flatt and Nagasu could (going all the way down to 7th at nationals)!!

 

[Mrs. P]

They should give the spot to Kaetlyn Osmond. Seriously, I know that sometimes it is strategic and that the USA want to maximize their chance to get a spot to the GPF, but it is not fair to let Alissa Czisny in the group and call a WITHDRAW in the last minute.

Even if the U.S. wants to protect their skater for the Grand Prix Final. Kaetlyn Osmond will be there at 4CC and Worlds and the USA will be forced to compete against her anyway in the future.

Giving the spot to Kaetlyn Osmond instead of Czisny would be very interesting and politically correct because in the competition, NHK, will determine the best ladies who deserve the GPF and will confirm the showdown : Suzuki vs Osmond. After this challenge of Osmond, we would see if Osmond is really better than Suzuki in a second times.

Are you saying that the USFSA is having Czisny wait until the last minute to withdraw so Kaetlyn can't get the spot? Considering that USFSA can't monitor its own athletes to make sure the best U.S. Skaters go to Worlds, I doubt they have the time or resources to plan something that calculated.

 

[skateluvr]

Never said it was solid evidence, but doesn't it seem a strong likelihood that so many FANS liked it but also booed his win Pattrick's, at Worlds. Dai was who many there and watching around the world of skating felt was golden that day. So it seems smart to go with what the fans like. And they loved Elegie on the boards. I am sure he got other feedback, but please the fans and it affects the judges. Since time immemorial it seems to work this way.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

My personal posting philosophy is not to say anything I would say to that skater/coach/poster's face in person. I know its bothersome when people attack me via voicemail, email or Facebook comments (I work in a job where such an opportunity exists), knowing that those people really wouldn't say that to my face.

So I wouldn't like it if someone told me to quit my job w/o knowing my personal situation, so I avoid doing so here.

Thank you. It's so easy to hide behind anonymity, but the internet mob mentality is insane.

Are you saying that the USFSA is having Czisny wait until the last minute to withdraw so Kaetlyn can't get the spot? Considering that USFSA can't monitor its own athletes to make sure the best U.S. Skaters go to Worlds, I doubt they have the time or resources to plan something that calculated.

I've heard it mentioned. I've also heard it mentioned that Polina Shelepen WD early enough to allow Nagasu to get the spot providing that the US Federation doesn't WD Czisny. The extent to which you believe that is entirely dependent on the extent to which you want to, imo.

 

[skateluvr]

I think there is a lot of pressure here to be PC, pollyanna, a cheerleader, and "positive." sometimes you cannot turn a silk purse into a sow's ear. Czisny should withdraw because she is injured, has not competed in ages, and could not do a show. Why wait. Everybody has loved Alissa to death and we even put consolation threads. Some posters are blunter than others, but should we be fearful of speaking our minds within the guielines? Even then one gets dinged.

Sorry MathMan. I did not carefully read your post and took it the wrong way. Thank you for correction. I thought someone elses thoughts were being attributed to me.

But honestly, there is no money in skating, and more and more you will see people quitting fairly young. jenny Kirk was great, yet she couldn't get a break in the Kwan years. But there was more money and people hung around. I just assume todays's skaters are by and large wealthy or they have parents who will sacrifice everything and go into debt. In the 90's we saw older skaters come back to pros -for fun-and for the crazy money. Paul Wyle has two really posh houses. Patrick Chan is gonna need to go to law school to get that. No money for WC's!

So now I think people look at resources and feel for sacrificial parents like Zhang's. Caroline has no great future internationally. Is that fair? So skate for fun at nationals, or quit to put money toward college. Some girls have it all, like Gao, and don't need to make a choice.

I can understand both sides of the debate.

 

[Tonichelle]

The post dissapeared. trying to delete posts-no deleting as the one i responded to is gone.

nothing's disappeared. it's on page 2 of this thread.

 

[skateluvr]

Thank you...I realized that and tried to delete that post or two but it would not delete. ???? sorry, not sure why.

 

[Mathman]

I've also heard it mentioned that Polina Shelepen WD early enough to allow Nagasu to get the spot providing that the US Federation doesn't WD Czisny.

!!! I love it! :yes:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Are you saying that the USFSA is having Czisny wait until the last minute to withdraw so Kaetlyn can't get the spot? Considering that USFSA can't monitor its own athletes to make sure the best U.S. Skaters go to Worlds, I doubt they have the time or resources to plan something that calculated.

I doubt this is the case. I don't think any federation is afraid of Kaetlyn at this point, as she has only skated one good event internationally. And I agree the USFSA isn't that calculated, especially when they can't even properly manage their own athletes' condition.