Discussion - Is Sasha's Skating Brittle or Fragile?

[dancindiva03]

Congratulations on your extension, not too many people can compare to Sasha in that area!!! I think extension is as important as edges for a free skater. Now for ice dance, edges are almost the most important thing. I happen to think all elements are important and that no skater is the best at it all.

I don't write about Sasha to change anyones mind about her skating. Sorry, I thought I made that perfectly clear.

If you are going to skate competively I hope to see you someday especially if you have extension as good as Sasha's. Keep working, I'm sure your spins will get there. Best wishes in your skating.

LOL the only way you'll ever see me is maybe at adult competitions, because I'm nearly 25 and just started skating a few yearrs ago, so I'm doing the adult track. Don't expect to see me at Nats or anything!

 

[Peggy]

LOL the only way you'll ever see me is maybe at adult competitions, because I'm nearly 25 and just started skating a few yearrs ago, so I'm doing the adult track. Don't expect to see me at Nats or anything!

Hey, I won't tell you how old I am but you're still very much a spring chicken to me. I wish I was 24 again and had some talent for skating. Best wishes

 

[CzarinaAnya]

Peggy said

"I don't get the darts and machine gun statement.
Do you feel the mental illness statement was the machine gun???"

Were you referring to my ADD comment? I don't know if you were, but to just clarify(in case you were), add isn't a mental illness.
It's just little lack of focus. I should know, I get distracted easily, myself, lol. Nothing to be ashamed of. It is majorly annoying to start daydreaming in the middle of a conversation while someone's talking to you, but it's not a mental illness.
I didn't mean what I said in a derogatory way towards her at all. I just want people to realize that it's hard to be consistent when your mind is trying to focus on something important, but it keeps jumping to other subjects. Alexei Y. said sometimes while he does jumps, his mind wanders. I would love to see Sasha's consistency improve, because she got help focusing. Then people would be quiet about it. Anyways, it was just an opinion. Not a fact about her.

Annie(one of Sasha's #1 fans)

 

[jesslily]

Jumping consistency is not easy to achieve for any lady skater. Some skaters could acieve for one season, and next season they could not. Some skaters could keep for a couple of years and left eligible quickly. Michelle is(I would say was) the only lady who can maintain a few years consistency at key events. But she can not keep the standard anymore. One or two jumps not putting in the program at nationls and worlds is much worse than falling on one jump. I just got a copy of Sasha's book. After reading I still feel she is a hard worker. Figure skating is a very demanding sport. If you are not 100 percent focused and put in 2 or 3 hours a day, the triples could be lost easily. Sasha's only problem is no matter what she's not as strong as Irina, Michelle, and many others. One thing I feel every body needs to realize that getting good edges is harder than getting triples. There are many skaters who can do all triples, but just very few skaters have great edges.

 

[gezando]

. Sasha's only problem is no matter what she's not as strong as Irina, Michelle, and many others.

No one stays at the top forever, there comes a time when a great champion will have to step down / off podium. But great champions achieve age appropriate greatness, e.g. Tara winning olys at 15, MK winning worlds at 15, Irina being a junior world medalist at 14. I agree with slutskayafan, Cohen is mentally fragile. She is at an age 20 going on 21 where she should be at the peak, and if indeed she is so gifted, or "God's gift to skating" claimed by some here, being beaten by a 25 y/o Irina is :disapp:

One thing I feel every body needs to realize that getting good edges is harder than getting triples. There are many skaters who can do all triples, but just very few skaters have great edges.

I will settle with reasonably good edges, and noisy scratching sand paper rubbing edges skated to Paus des deux in Marshalls was :disapp:

 

[chuckm]

At 21, and after 6 years of Senior international competition, Sasha has still not won a National or World championship, despite the fact that she has many wonderful qualities as a skater. There are several reasons why this is true, among them emotional fragility, lack of competition nerves, and technical problems which may be due in part to the flexibility that makes her skating so pleasing to the eye.

I think Sasha will finally achieve greatness as a pro. Once she doesn't have to face the rigors of competition and wanting so badly to be #1, she will finally skate with freedom and real feeling. Then and only then will we see the best of Sasha.

 

[mzheng]

At 21, and after 6 years of Senior international competition, Sasha has still not won a National or World championship, despite the fact that she has many wonderful qualities as a skater. There are several reasons why this is true, among them emotional fragility, lack of competition nerves, and technical problems which may be due in part to the flexibility that makes her skating so pleasing to the eye.

I think Sasha will finally achieve greatness as a pro. Once she doesn't have to face the rigors of competition and wanting so badly to be #1, she will finally skate with freedom and real feeling. Then and only then will we see the best of Sasha.

Although a fan of MK myself, but in Sasha's defence she was just "not born in the right time" (in chinese). Had FS run like old ways, the old skaters retired after each Olympics cycles, she'd be two time US champion and at least one time World Champion. That's not to say 'old skaters' should leave the rink to make way for new ones, or make excuses for one. A true champion would always find a way to rise to the occation no matter in what system they are in.

 

[IDLERACER]

And now for an ispired change of pace, here are pictures of the four biggest mouthes in nature:

MOUTH #1
MOUTH #2
MOUTH #3
MOUTH #4
​

 

[jesslily]

Mentle toughness is an important factor for competitive figure skating, but from my knowledge I haven't seen any obvious weakness of Sasha Cohen. Sasha landed her 2axel when she was 12 while Michelle landed all her triples by 12. The jumps needs years of practicing to master. Most Russion top skaters learned triples by 12 or 13.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I really don't care at what age a skater first lands an assortment of jumps. I do care when they land them in competition.

There are at least six ladies at over 20 years of age in the forthcoming Olys trying to prove that age doesn't matter. If one of them wins, will we negate the win because of her learning the triple toe wally too late in life?

Joe

 

[jesslily]

Mastering the thiples thoroughly do take time...20s is not old for figure skating if you have learnd all you jumps at early teens and maintained that level over the years...Landing jumps in competition also needs natural strength and competition experience...Sasha started skating at 7 and moved up one or two levels each year, by age of 15 she was 2nd at national...basically she did not have some other ladies' experience...Sasha does have stamina problem...if she only skate long at pro-am, most likely she did clean...for a Olympic format competition, after short program she seems used up all the energy and not much left for the long...sure she'll fall a 3toe...in her book she talked about how Robin let her take it easy at qualifying round saving energy for the long...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

OK for years I read that MK should retire she is too old. So now over 20 is fine. I always thought it would be.

Jessilly - I was in Dortmund and Sasha skated an exquisite QR. She then went on with an equally beautiful SP. What happened in the LP is totally inexplicable. It had nothing to do with Wagner; nothing to do with TT; nothing to do with Swan Lake. Whatever it was she was not herself. I don't know if that was ever looked into by anyone afterwards.

I thought her LP in Moscow was a big improvement in her overal presentation despite the flaws.

Joe

 

[emma]

OK for years I read that MK should retire she is too old. So now over 20 is fine. I always thought it would be.

Jessilly - I was in Dortmund and Sasha skated an exquisite QR. She then went on with an equally beautiful SP. What happened in the LP is totally inexplicable. It had nothing to do with Wagner; nothing to do with TT; nothing to do with Swan Lake. Whatever it was she was not herself. I don't know if that was ever looked into by anyone afterwards.

I thought her LP in Moscow was a big improvement in her overal presentation despite the flaws.

Joe

My pop psychology view of Dortmund was that Sasha just knew that even a perfect performance - witht he version she had - would likely not beat Shiz that night, hence the deer in the headlights look on her face....who knows if that is true (i'm actually trying to remember now if Sasha actually skated after Shiz or if I made that up after the fact).

And, I totally agree that Moscow Long was an improvement, and I would just add that given the crazy season she had, that says a lot (to me at least).

 

[Kwanford Wife]

And, I totally agree that Moscow Long was an improvement, and I would just add that given the crazy season she had, that says a lot (to me at least).

ITA... The impression I got was that because so many had pretty much written her off, she didn't have as much external pressure on her at Worlds... esp. if she watched a tape of her Nationals performance with commentary... The first time since her debut that Peggy & Dick weren't gushing over how wonderful she is... Also, Mr. Nicks seems to have a calming influence over her... But then, she always does well at the beginning of a coaching change... The true test will come next season ...

my 2 cents.

KW

 

[chuckm]

Arakawa's FS had nothing to do with Sasha's loss at 2004 Worlds. Sasha came into the Worlds FS having won both the QR and the SP. If she had skated flawlessly, she would have won the gold medal, and she did not need to top Arakawa technically: Shizuka's presentation scores left the door wide open for Sasha to claim the World Championship.

The problem is inside Sasha herself. We saw the precursor to 2004 Worlds at 2004 Nationals, where Sasha won the SP but faltered midway through the FS and had to settle for silver. When Sasha has a really strong chance to win, she can't handle the pressure and she's been unable to deliver the solid performance she needs to close the deal.

In Moscow, it was clear after Irina skated a sloppy performance in the SP but still won that segment anway, that Sasha had no chance to win the competition. Since she had no chance of winning, the pressure was off and Sasha's FS, though flawed, was much better than her 2004 Worlds FS.

 

[dwiggin3]

When I think of brittle skating, I think Maria B. and those stiff knees of hers. Sasha is not a brittle skater. I think of Sasha as a powerful skater always on the edge of being slightly out of control.

Maria B...yes, she is brittle. Her knee's lacked the softness in her landings. Hmmm...this is a really interesting thread...

 

[hockeyfan228]

Arakawa's FS had nothing to do with Sasha's loss at 2004 Worlds. Sasha came into the Worlds FS having won both the QR and the SP. If she had skated flawlessly, she would have won the gold medal, and she did not need to top Arakawa technically: Shizuka's presentation scores left the door wide open for Sasha to claim the World Championship.

I don't think she needed a flawless performance at Worlds 2004, or even a less flawed performance. I think if she had some of the fire she showed in the quali and SP, and didn't look like she was being sent to the executioner, she would have beaten Arakawa with unmatched pre scores. I even think she would have fended off Kwan.

 

[jesslily]

In her book Sasha talked about right before 2004 world qualifying round she suddenly could not do 3loop. So Robin told her just do a spiral for that part...so it looked like she did a clean program...I did not pay much attention about her mind set during the long program...if she really skated before or after Shuzuka, it could be very nervious...some skaters are very nervious to skate in front of their formal coaches...Sasha mentioned a few things in her book which can tell she has strong mind to handle unexpected situation, such as at 2002 world she lost her 3 lutz before long, at Olympics, right before long, she realized her tights was lost during the security check. It's amazing that she could handle these emergency. Overall I feel she is a really hard worker, and tried to learn every thing she could considering she started late, slower pace early years, still moved up to senior at 15...for years, even now at local competitions, judges still mainly check clean jumps and rotations to place competitiors, how many skaters and coaches have much extra time to focus or edges? Many skaters just took a few move lessons for a level since they need to pass the freestyle test of the level in order to compete.

 

[Mathman]

That's an interesting insight, Jesslily. Is it unusual for a top skater to suddenly wake up on the day of a big competition and discover that she can't do a loop or a Lutz? Or is this a case of nerves that strikes everybody now and then?

Mathman

 

[emma]

Please know that I DON"T KNOW WHAT sasha was thinking or not thinking...I was just saying that in 'pop phsychology' mode, she looked terrified in the Long...and after such an amazing and yes, feisty, SP, that deer in the headlights look was noticable, and on a personal note, it saddened me FOR HER.

and to clarify, I wasn't saying she couldn't have beaten Shiz that night (although, all would agree I think that Shiz really presented a challenge), I was just saying that it looked like she thought that it would take something so extradorinary, hence why she looked so scared, to win. Maybe she wasn't even aware of Shiz, and just nervous...maybe I'm wrong and she wasn't nervous all...I'm just saying what she looked like to me.

But again, I have NO idea what goes on in any athletes mind, and have no inside connections either.

I said awhile ago, though, that I thought that 2004 world's was a major breakthrough for her, precisely because of QR and SP, and because despite the not so great LP...it was still great enough to keep her on the podium...first time for her at worlds. And I said before and just again in this thread, that I thought she did another kind of breakthrough thing this year with her good presentation and determined 'I will stay vertical" attitude...good for her with that accomplisment! And, I do think she as of now she is major medal contender for next year (of course next year's grand prix's etc. will shed more light), and not just any medal...she has the goods for the gold.