Discussion - Is Sasha's Skating Brittle or Fragile?

[Peggy]

No, it's not that I don't appreciate how "amazing beautiful her skating is", it's just that I DO grow sick and tired of the portrayl, by so many of her fans, of Cohen being the most amazingly gifted artist on ice ever, when in fact there are so many other skaters whom I consider much superior in that aspect yet are much more underhyped.

Sasha's fans should be able to Express their feelings about Sasha without fans of other skaters Knocking their opinion. I could care less who you like but I don't like all the Vicious Comparison. Her skating moves me and I don't need someone else telling me I'm stupid for liking her the best.
You have a right to like whoever you want and so do I. Really, no offence intended.

 

[Peggy]

Maybe some people don't appreciate how "beautiful" her skating is because not everyone sees it as beautiful. To me, beautiful skating is deep, steady, quiet edges, total confidence in what one is doing, real connection to the music and with the audience. Sasha's lines are beautful and her spin positions are nice, but overall her skating does not meet my own criteria of beautiful skating. That's not to say that I think everyone should use these criteria, they are just the things I like to see when I watch skating, and that I try to incorporate into my own skating.

I don't care if you like her but I do and she meets my criteria and I want the world to know it so you will probably hear it again. Be honest, wouldn't you love to have Sasha's extension and spins in your skating or are perfect edges all that count to you? There are a lot of people, like me, who connect with Sasha's skating. That seems to bother people and thats what I object to.
Best wishes in your skating. .

 

[Skate Sandee]

Sasha's fans should be able to Express their feelings about Sasha without fans of other skaters Knocking their opinion. I could care less who you like but I don't like all the Vicious Comparison. Her skating moves me and I don't need someone else telling me I'm stupid for liking her the best.
You have a right to like whoever you want and so do I. Really, no offence intended.

And Michelle fans, Irina fans, Rochette fans, Kirk fans, etc - should be able to express their feelings without fans of Sasha or other skaters knocking their opinion.

Color me baffled. I have read all 9 pages of this thread. The original poster posed the question about whether Sasha is brittle or fragile. Some called her the most exquisite skater ever. Others disagreed. I have not read one out-of-line comment (well the mental illness one was a bit ???). Nor have I seen anyone being called stupid for liking Sasha the best. This thread is strangely out of proportion in terms of sentiment from Sasha fans BASED ON THIS THREAD ALONE. I think the sensititivity from other threads on other boards where over the top Sasha bashing occurs is spilling into this discussion. If you read this thread in an of itself, the debate has been conducted in a fairly reasonable way that hasn't even come close to "viscious comparisons". I swear this thread is the equivalent of one group of people playing darts, and the other group responding with machine guns.

 

[Peggy]

And Michelle fans, Irina fans, Rochette fans, Kirk fans, etc - should be able to express their feelings without fans of Sasha or other skaters knocking their opinion.

I have not read one out-of-line comment (well the mental illness one was a bit ???)

I swear this thread is the equivalent of one group of people playing darts, and the other group responding with machine guns.

I don't recall saying anything about a particular skater but I agree that everyone has a right to like, be moved, etc, by any skater they choose. I just don't particularly like Sasha getting hammered unjustly. After all she is the World silver medalist so she has something the judges see and like.

I don't get the darts and machine gun statement.
Do you feel the mental illness statement was the machine gun???

 

[Mathman]

Sasha is the prettiest skater this side of Yukina Ota. All performers have their strong points. To me, Sasha's are the exquisite (I'm not afraid to say balletic, although I don't dance myself) positions of her upper body, and the extension which she attains on her spiral, spins and moves in the field. IMHO, her jumps and edges are good but not outstanding.

With respect to "musicality." relating to the audience, and all that, I think that falls into the "eye of the beholder" category. She is looked up to and admired by thousands of little girls, and I have no doubt she is the imaginary girl-friend of more than a few little boys. Two world silver medals is not too shabby. She has as good a chance as anyone in Torino.

As for me, Michelle owns my heart; but Go Sasha!

Mathman

 

[SusanBeth]

I wouldn't use "brittle" to describe her skating. However, from what I observe, it might be a good word to describe her mindset when she competes. It seems that she goes out with a rigid plan. It's like she's thinking "I am going to do exactly this or that." The problem is she does have some technical flaws that keep her from following her plan. Her mental approach doesn't allow the flexibilty needed to recover. IMO, her concentration doesn't break, it shatters. So, brittle is a good word for it.


Of course, I am not a mindreader and armchair psychology is just a cheap hobby of mine.

I think Sasha has many beautiful qualities and I really hope she has the skate of her life at Torino. It would be a joy to watch Sasha skate a program that does justice to her talent. That would be a thing of beauty without doubt.

 

[Peggy]

Sasha is the prettiest skater this side of Yukina Ota. All performers have their strong points. To me, Sasha's are the exquisite (I'm not afraid to say balletic, although I don't dance myself) positions of her upper body, and the extension which she attains on her spiral, spins and moves in the field. IMHO, her jumps and edges are good but not outstanding.

With respect to "musicality." relating to the audience, and all that, I think that falls into the "eye of the beholder" category. She is looked up to and admired by thousands of little girls, and I have no doubt she is the imaginary girl-friend of more than a few little boys. Two world silver medals is not too shabby. She has as good a chance as anyone in Torino.

As for me, Michelle owns my heart; but Go Sasha!

Mathman

Mathman,
You are so endearing--I'm so glad you are a moderator here.
Sasha is my favorite but I hope both Michelle and Sasha have the best skate of their life in Turino, the judging is the best ever, and everyone is satisfied with the results. <G> It would be such a treat to see them both skate well and be satisified with their performances.
My heart goes out to Michelle for trying again and come what may, I hope she has fun, makes a fortune, and is satisfied with whatever medal she gets. She is definately a champion no matter what happens.

 

[brad640]

Mathman,
You are so endearing--I'm so glad you are a moderator here.
Sasha is my favorite but I hope both Michelle and Sasha have the best skate of their life in Turino, the judging is the best ever, and everyone is satisfied with the results. <G> It would be such a treat to see them both skate well and be satisified with their performances.
My heart goes out to Michelle for trying again and come what may, I hope she has fun, makes a fortune, and is satisfied with whatever medal she gets. She is definately a champion no matter what happens.

Peggy, I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. I agree with you that Sasha is disproportionately criticized on this board. I don't know of another skater that inspires posters to repeatedly explain why they don't like that skater's style.

 

[mzheng]

Peggy, I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. I agree with you that Sasha is disproportionately criticized on this board. I don't know of another skater that inspires posters to repeatedly explain why they don't like that skater's style.

Now there is one, MK got far more criticizing than Cohen from some. I agree what skatesandee said.

 

[Grgranny]

What I think would be great, and I can't think anyone would disagree, I would be so excited if everyone skated their very best and the judges would give everyone their fair scores.

Again why can't anyone learn to spell DEFINITELY. No a's!!!

 

[dancindiva03]

I don't care if you like her but I do and she meets my criteria and I want the world to know it so you will probably hear it again. Be honest, wouldn't you love to have Sasha's extension and spins in your skating or are perfect edges all that count to you? There are a lot of people, like me, who connect with Sasha's skating. That seems to bother people and thats what I object to.
Best wishes in your skating. .

I'll be honest and tell you that according to my coach, my extension is just as good as Sasha's already. But I'll attribute that to my 18 years of ballet training prior to taking up skating! My spins aren't quite up to par, but hey I've only been skating 2.5 years so I guess that's okay. Did you bother to read my post, perfect edges are NOT the only think that count to me. But they are very important. But, I like ice dance better than freestyle so thats probably why edges are important to me. Good for you that you love Sasha, go on and tell the world. Its your opinion and that's fine with me. But don't think I'll ever change my opinion on her.

 

[Peggy]

Peggy, I have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. I agree with you that Sasha is disproportionately criticized on this board. I don't know of another skater that inspires posters to repeatedly explain why they don't like that skater's style.

Brad, Thank You!!! I'm sure there will be some disagreement with your statement but it is the truth.

 

[Peggy]

Again why can't anyone learn to spell DEFINITELY. No a's!!!

You got me!

 

[gezando]

. To me, Sasha's are the exquisite ...

Actually no one in this thread said Cohen is not exquisite, but some uber Cohen fan has to insist that she is the most exquisite, and when others described her as one exquisite among many that is not enough.

Sasha is the prettiest skater this side of Yukina Ota

Stating that as a fact or opinion. Many disagree with you and think Cohen is no where near pretty as .....In fact according to a current GS poll, Tanith is kicking Cohen's butt

Anyway what does being "pretty" has to do with ice skating a sports? Not surprise that a lot of my friends do not consider ice skating a sports, just beauty pageant on ice. If "pretty" is so important then, IMO Mai Asada should win Japanese nationals, and get a spot in the olys team, and she does not even have to skate, and be given an olypic gold.

 

[gezando]

. I agree with you that Sasha is disproportionately criticized on this board. I don't know of another skater that inspires posters to repeatedly explain why they don't like that skater's style.

Thanks for the Read any current pre and post 02 olympics Hughes threads? Pre olympics 2002, a GS poster Sashagold wished "Hughes and Kwan fall and break something"

How about Weiss.

Michelle Kwan is the only skater who had the honor of having threads here at GS dedicated to "Anyone but Kwan to win nationals 2003" At the top three thread, a poster stated she hates to see Kwan http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9631&page=2win.
.

 

[gezando]

I'll be honest and tell you that according to my coach, my extension is just as good as Sasha's already.

Nice for you to share your experience. What amazes me is how some fans keep up with the "Honestly wouldn't you love to have her extension?" or "I will bet my life that many skaters will trade their edges for her line" To quote Sandra Loosemore, skating is about edges (at least a big part is about edges), so as a skater will you give up your edges training just for the lines? Do you think a young aspiring skaters like Mao Asada will trade her triple axel for lines? IMO what is disproportional is the disproportional exaggeration about the importance of lines and extension claimed by some . Yeah, I know they will quote Dick and Peggy, I don't know how many times Dick and Peggy had criticized irina, "her extension is no where near Sasha Cohen". I am very sure Irina will trade her edges for line

 

[Peggy]

I'll be honest and tell you that according to my coach, my extension is just as good as Sasha's already. But I'll attribute that to my 18 years of ballet training prior to taking up skating! My spins aren't quite up to par, but hey I've only been skating 2.5 years so I guess that's okay. Did you bother to read my post, perfect edges are NOT the only think that count to me. But they are very important. But, I like ice dance better than freestyle so thats probably why edges are important to me. Good for you that you love Sasha, go on and tell the world. Its your opinion and that's fine with me. But don't think I'll ever change my opinion on her.

Congratulations on your extension, not too many people can compare to Sasha in that area!!! I think extension is as important as edges for a free skater. Now for ice dance, edges are almost the most important thing. I happen to think all elements are important and that no skater is the best at it all.

I don't write about Sasha to change anyones mind about her skating. Sorry, I thought I made that perfectly clear.

If you are going to skate competively I hope to see you someday especially if you have extension as good as Sasha's. Keep working, I'm sure your spins will get there. Best wishes in your skating.

 

[Mathman]

Many disagree with you and think Cohen is no where near pretty as .....In fact according to a current GS poll, Tanith is kicking Cohen's butt

Anyway what does being "pretty" has to do with ice skating a sports? Not surprise that a lot of my friends do not consider ice skating a sports, just beauty pageant on ice. If "pretty" is so important then, IMO Mai Asada should win Japanese nationals, and get a spot in the olys team, and she does not even have to skate, and be given an olympic gold.

I meant that "pretty" is an adjective that I would use to describe Sasha's skating. Tanith's style is not "pretty" so much as, maybe, "splendid." Jenny Kirk (another strikingly lovely lady) is "sparkling."

Mai Asada is "enchanting."

MM

 

[emma]

IMO what is disproportional is the disproportional exaggeration about the importance of lines and extension claimed by some . Yeah, I know they will quote Dick and Peggy, I don't know how many times Dick and Peggy had criticized irina, "her extension is no where near Sasha Cohen". I am very sure Irina will trade her edges for line

I agree that edges are key...there's not figure skating without them, right (i mean otherwise no curves, no edge jumps, spins etc). I also agree that superb edging makes the for overall superior presentation, flow, power (i.e. in stroking, cross overs etc), and potentially ice coverage.

Now, not referring to gezando, but to other posters and just generally, I strongly DISAGREE with the idea that extension and lines mean nothing. I do think, that is my very own personal opinion, that good lines/balletic lines and great extension are stunningly beautiful...understanding full well that not all people would agree. But more importantly, I totally disagree with the 'gumby' attitudes (respectfully of course)...stretch/extension is never simply/only genetic and not 'freaky'. It requires constant work to maintain; strength/endurance to perform (particularly with the weights on the feet that are skates), and concentration to execute properly. Good extension can turn text book perfect moves into totally amazing WOW moves and that, to me, is cool. Key here too, though, is part of 'text book perfect' is proper edge.

 

[Skate Sandee]

I don't get the darts and machine gun statement.
Do you feel the mental illness statement was the machine gun???

I'm saying this thread as a whole has been a healthy debate (with very few minor exceptions), but I still see you upset about "viscious comparisons". I'm baffled as to where the viscious comparisons are in any of the posts. I've seen a lot of posts about Sasha's exquisite line, beauty, balletic quality, flexibility and undeniable talent. I've seen counter-arguements that she two-foots jumps, is prone to being unfocused, inconsistent, not reaching out emotionally, and questionable jump technique that cause wobbly landings. That's an analysis of her skating, not attacks on Sasha herself. Where's the viscious comparisons? It's seems an out of proportion to me (i.e. machine gun).

And in response to Kyla's post that "it can't be argued to the contrary and be taken seriously", I responded by saying such a view was scary, because it eliminated the possibility of debate. And then I posted my "dart" where I said that I appreciate Sasha's stunning positions and flexibility, but that emotionally she doesn't reach me. The (machine gun) response to my post was that "the only things that scares me is when you refuse to recognize other skaters attributes".
Hello? Again, color me baffled. I didn't realize acknowledging Sasha's stunning positions and flexibility was a refusal to acknowledge other skaters attributes. An out of proportion response.

And yes, suggesting someone has a pychiatric problem is a machine gun response to a dart-like point of view they don't agree with.

All I'm saying is that this thread has been very balanced. So I get nervous when I read a generalization that poor Sasha is being attacked. The whole origin of this thread is to discuss our opinions about whether she is brittle or fragile. There's no blanket Sasha bashing on this thread to justify some of the wholesale "Sasha is always criticized". It's a debate-style question that was posed, so of course there will be many opinions. The greatest irony is that 95% of us (including those that wouldn't consider themselves Sasha fans) said she is neither brittle or fragile.

Anyway, I wasn't going to post anymore on this subject. But you asked me to clarify what I meant, so hopefully I did. I'm done. Flame away!