will be held up by the judges, should she and sasha skater their best? I hope this year that Sasha will be who the national judges decide on. It is a decision not based on just how they skate that day, as we all know. Who do you want to be the face of the american oly team this year, so to speak. I hope it is Sasha as IMO, she has a better chance for many reasons, of winning gold than Michelle, Kimmie or Alissa.
Do you think Michelle
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will be held up by the judges, should she and sasha skater their best? I hope this year that Sasha will be who the national judges decide on. It is a decision not based on just how they skate that day, as we all know. Who do you want to be the face of the american oly team this year, so to speak. I hope it is Sasha as IMO, she has a better chance for many reasons, of winning gold than Michelle, Kimmie or Alissa.
If she's healthy I don't think Michelle will need to need to be held up. I think she will win Nationals convincingly. All the reports all summer from very reliable sources had her skating terrifically and those who saw her train had little doubt she'd be very competitive. Michelle + Rachmaninoff's Isle of the Dead + TT + Nationals. No doubt in my mind who'll win. I think MK has mastered COP.
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Actually, I think USFS and its judges have an exceptional record of fairness and honesty at U.S. nationals. Certainly for the last decade, the person won who skated the best, without any hint of controversy or wuz-robbin'.
(That would be Michelle nine times and Tara once, when Michelle crashed in the SP, LOL.)
MM
(That would be Michelle nine times and Tara once, when Michelle crashed in the SP, LOL.)
MM
I think it was tara
who won the LP. For all her detractors, she did win nationals, worlds and oly gold, and i believe the GP final in 97, but I might have that wrong. I don't think Michelle won every nationals convincingly. 2000, her first year, Sasha should have won. EVEN NNN outskated her. I feel a couple years that Sasha should have won the lovefest, but it was like she long ago recived a fax saying "when MK retires, we'll upgrade your silver." This eroded her early confidence. Even with a flaw like a fall, her elements are more difficult and her artistry superior. I'll bet Peg n' Dick agree.
Anyway, she has the best chance to win gold as you all know, the international judges do love her skating. Popularity and Kwan Nation have made her ascension most difficult, IMO.
who won the LP. For all her detractors, she did win nationals, worlds and oly gold, and i believe the GP final in 97, but I might have that wrong. I don't think Michelle won every nationals convincingly. 2000, her first year, Sasha should have won. EVEN NNN outskated her. I feel a couple years that Sasha should have won the lovefest, but it was like she long ago recived a fax saying "when MK retires, we'll upgrade your silver." This eroded her early confidence. Even with a flaw like a fall, her elements are more difficult and her artistry superior. I'll bet Peg n' Dick agree.
Anyway, she has the best chance to win gold as you all know, the international judges do love her skating. Popularity and Kwan Nation have made her ascension most difficult, IMO.
Just the other day I watched 2002's worlds, by all counts, Sasha's spin then no better than Kwan's. Slower and even not centered. Not to mention her edges, speed, ice coverage etc. then.......Sasha was not fully developed until she switched to TT.Bijoux said:2000, her first year, Sasha should have won. EVEN NNN outskated her. I feel a couple years that Sasha should have won the lovefest, but it was like she long ago recived a fax saying "when MK retires, we'll upgrade your silver." This eroded her early confidence. Even with a flaw like a fall, her elements are more difficult and her artistry superior. I'll bet Peg n' Dick agree.
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THREE times?! Wow, I knew that supposedly Kwan did "badly" in this competition but I didn't know it was that bad.
I don't know about MK being held up this time. I felt that she WAS held up a little in Worlds 05, so it's likely to happen. However, this would most likely be overshadowed by more extreme holding up of Russian skaters like Irina. Irina really was held up last year (although she still deserved the win).
I think that the judges at Nats would have given the gold to Sasha in '04 and '05 if she could have held it together in the FS -- Kwan can't be blamed, and the judges should not be called biased -- because Sasha couldn't skate a clean FS. If they both skate well at the same event, then I think the judges might have to call it a tie -- simply because the shock would fritz out the computer. (Sasha and Michelle never skate cleanly at the same event. Even at Worlds '04, where Sasha was clean, Michelle had a timing dediction -- and in '05, Michelle was clean and Sasha had the timing deduction).
Also, considering what happened to the Nat silver medalist in '98 and to the Nat bronze medalist in '02, then IMO, Sasha fans should be hoping like crazy that Kwan wins Nats in '06
Also, considering what happened to the Nat silver medalist in '98 and to the Nat bronze medalist in '02, then IMO, Sasha fans should be hoping like crazy that Kwan wins Nats in '06
Irina won because of her jumps, energy and Sasha's mistakes. I agree the politics are still there and CoP or no CoP, a Rusian sweep seems likely this year.
Personally, I prefer Weir to Plush even without a quad, and Sasha with a fall regardless of how many triples Irina can throw. I think they will hold up Irina 1) because she's world champ and undefeated so far last and this season, and 2) she is ill and they find her so spunky.
Personally, I prefer Weir to Plush even without a quad, and Sasha with a fall regardless of how many triples Irina can throw. I think they will hold up Irina 1) because she's world champ and undefeated so far last and this season, and 2) she is ill and they find her so spunky.
Kathy said:
What makes you think that MK has mastered COP? No body else does. At this point everbody is going on spectulation about Michelle, she hasn't even skated this year. So, how can you say that she has mastered the COP, from a few rumors from the Kwan Camp. At this point we can't spectulate who is going to win. Probably she will win Nationals because their isn't any internation judges there judging her and she will probably be held up because of who she is(talking about judging scandals). Only time will tell with Michelle. What happens to Michelle if the younger skaters beat her in COP? Will she still be able to be on the US Olympic team.
Hope she is feeling better.
attyfan said:
Couple thoughts on this:
I don't think anyone is blaming Kwan or the judges biased because Cohen wasn't able to skate Nats clean. I also don't think the day will come where they will both skate clean. ONE of them is bound to make some sort of mistake because I think if one skates clean it really puts the pressure on the other one and, as a result the other doesn't end up quite putting it all together. This is much more likely to happen at Nats than at either OLYs or worlds.
Also- I think 2006 will be different. I really can't say we have a real contender for OLY gold this time. Cohen might be the only one because she already has a world placement, and we know how predictable she can be when it comes to her skating. Kwan is just the sentimental favorite at this point. The third place finisher (for the sake of argument let's just say it's Kimmie) will most likely squeak in a top 10 finish. But Kwan might be in a better position because she may not be the favorite this time- Cohen might be, and therefore most of the pressure will be on her. I know this is what the Kwaniacs want, so they better hope that Kwan doesn't win. The Sasha fans, like you said, need to hope the opposite because with Kwan being the reigning National Champion, the "three times a charm" articles will start popping up. Esp. if Kwan knocks it out of the ballpark...that could be a blessing in disguise for the other US Ladies (like it was in 98 and 02)...Likewise for Kwan if Sasha ends up having the "skate of her life" at Nats.
Kathy said:
I don't think she's "mastered" Cop (she's only competed ONCE under it) but I agree wholeheartedly with you- Kwan is already our 2006 US National champion (unless she pulls out). Kwan better be competitive (and Cohen too) because they've had all this rest. However, I must say that Cohen is the one who has more experience with the new system so she's at an advantage.
And I don't even think Cohen will do TEB but that's just my assumption. I think she'll pull another Kwan on this one.
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But she didn't. That's not opinion, that's fact.Bijoux said:
In the short. That's why there is a short and a long.
Red Dog, this thread is about Nationals, not the Olympics. The question Bijou is raising is, who do we want the judges to cheat for at U.S. Nationals, Michelle or Sasha?
I think each of us should email his/her vote directly to USFS. I sent mine already: cheat for Bebe!
MM
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- Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:But she didn't. That's not opinion, that's fact. In the short. That's why there is a short and a long.
Red Dog, this thread is about Nationals, not the Olympics. The question Bijou is raising is, who do we want the judges to cheat for at U.S. Nationals, Michelle or Sasha?
I think each of us should email his/her vote directly to USFS. I sent mine already: cheat for Bebe!
MM
I'm cheating for Matt Savoie....and NOT in the Ladies.
On that note- I don't think the judges should cheat for anybody. If anything, I hope and pray for a fair result. Let whoever skated the best be awarded the US title, 2nd best the silver and 3rd best a coveted spot on that Olympic team. (Of course that's boring, so we have to pump in some drama, as always
)But does the question posed assume that the other skated better? Or does it just assume that in a close race, the favored would be given the title?
Regardless of who wins, history will be made. If Kwan wins she'll break the record of 10 titles. If Cohen wins she'll be the first skater since Tara (in 1997) to beat kwan at nats. Which one is more impressive? :scratch:
(The Kwaniacs don't need to answer this. Neither do the Sasha fans.)Bijoux said:
Sasha The Perennial Falling Star who can't get any program together? You must be joking! The only thing she had over MIchelle the past years was her extension/flexibility ("exquisite," as Peggy would keep saying). Technically and artistically, she was always miles away from Kwan.
Now, this season's a bit different. She has more COP experience and her ability to contort her body will actually work to her advantage. But a good Kwan will certainly need no holding up at Nats. If Sasha The Perennial Falling Star actually skates better and wins Nats, good for her. She'll finally have ONE major title to her credit.
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The assumption is they "both skated their best." Presumably this means a close contest.Red Dog said:
I'll answer anyway, LOL. Think about it. "I beat Michelle Kwan!" -- what a remarkable achievement that would be! You could tell your grandchildren about it, The Day I Beat Michelle Kwan! (They probably won't believe you, though.)Regardless of who wins, history will be made. If Kwan wins she'll break the record of 10 titles. If Cohen wins she'll be the first skater since Tara (in 1997) to beat kwan at nats. Which one is more impressive? :scratch:
MM
JanJam said:
May the best skater win. And never say never.
(IMO- the label "perennial falling star" might be seen by some as unnecessary- the point can be made without the handle.)
Kwan doesn't need to be held up at Nats because she has no competition there. I hope someone steps up to the plate this year and at least CHALLENGES Kwan some, even if it is Kwan (yet AGAIN) that ultimately skates away with the title.
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