Elena Tchaikovskaia interview about coaching and Rus team

[zenskate]

Thank you for the translation, dante!

Anyway, we shouldn't meddle with it - we can't help it now, besides, we don't know all the background. Well, I do, you don't.

Elena, you can't leave us hanging like this...

 

[moriel]

So complete and total speculation was behind the assumption of the question? That’s disappointing :confused2:

ETA: makes it difficult to take any of the questions seriously. And one whole style for all of NA???
Like wow

I dunno what wows you, the NA style at least for me is a thing, north american skaters / choreographers have a somewhat distinctive style, visibly different from how russians skate and choreograph.
Keep in mind that this is an interview for russians, so there is many stuff that is based on how russian audience sees things, not how north american audience sees things.

 

[andromache]

I always roll my eyes when it comes to discussions of Russian choreography/skating versus North American choreography skating. For one thing, it absolutely ignores skaters of other nationalities (mostly Chinese, Japanese, and Korean - but don't forget that the rest of Europe exists too). But especially the Japanese, many of whom train with Japanese coaches and choreographers, or Japanese coaches and North American choreographers, or North American coaches and choreographers. Or there is Mao Asada, who also worked with Tarasova.

Marina Zueva has also done plenty of programs for North American skaters - not only ice dancers - and last I checked she is Russian. What about Raf? He is not Russian, but he was born in the Soviet Union and spent time living and working in Russia, but now he coaches skaters of all nationalities and is based in the US. His wife does choreography too (I believe she is also Eastern-European and lived and worked in Russia for some time as well). Is Benoit Richaud a "North American" style of choreographer or a "Russian" one?

All coaches and choreographers have different styles, and they work with skaters of different origins who were originally trained as children by different coaches with different styles.

Not everything is about nationalism.

 

[typeyournamehere]

Keep in mind that this is an interview for russians, so there is many stuff that is based on how russian audience sees things, not how north american audience sees things.

This. Don't forget this while reading almost any russian interview

 

[chopinskate]

Not everything is about nationalism.

You're right. It's not nationalism to acknowledge that there might be different schools of training in different places. I am sure you've heard of the famed "Japanese knee bend", too, unless that's somehow nationalistic.

Not sure why it's hard to acknowledge that someone's choreographic methods might differ based on where they trained their art, either. If a Korean skater works with a Ugandan choreographer who trained in Antarctica, I think it might be reasonable to assume the Korean skater's program might contain some Antarctican influence. I will grant that choreography and a person's knowledge of it is likely ever-evolving, however.

 

[el henry]

He's a generic sports journalist working for a non-sports outlet, so he obviously isn't very knowledgeable in figure skating, while Tchaikovskaia apparently didn't find it necessary to correct him each time he said something moderately stupid. I think the only time she corrected him was when he said Zhenya is the only star in Brian's team.

Thank you for the explanation.

I am jumping off here, and not responding to you, in that I still find it strange to have North American versus anything else style. Of course, that may be because I follow the men most intently.

To say that Rafael A., Tom Z., Christy Krall, Kori Ade, the Cains, Alex O., and Brian Orser all have the same style, in *anything*, because they all coach in NA, I just find

And such a statement could be taken the wrong way, I think, to rouse nationalism Russian v. Canadian v. American v. Whatever, which is not useful:noshake:

 

[Manitou]

Not everything is about nationalism.

You would be surprised...

 

[ancientpeas]

Thanks so much Dante.

I find her comments really interesting. I've been trying to wrap my brain around why some feel so passionately about the way the break up with Eteri happened and I think this helps. I think she is saying that Evgenia could have left Eteri better but she wishes her well with Orser? That is how I read it.

I sense a terrible sadness in that last line about doing all you can and realizing that no matter how hard someone works and you work that there are limitations that sometimes can not be passed.

And of course as a Canadian I'm kind of digging the "Canadian brilliance" line.

 

[moriel]

Thank you for the explanation.

I am jumping off here, and not responding to you, in that I still find it strange to have North American versus anything else style. Of course, that may be because I follow the men most intently.

To say that Rafael A., Tom Z., Christy Krall, Kori Ade, the Cains, Alex O., and Brian Orser all have the same style, in *anything*, because they all coach in NA, I just find

And such a statement could be taken the wrong way, I think, to rouse nationalism Russian v. Canadian v. American v. Whatever, which is not useful:noshake:

No, they dont have same style, but they have a style that is different from the Russian one.
So, for a russian audience, it is not even absurd to talk about north american style, or north american polish, and so on. Yep, those folks are different between them, but they are also different from russians.

 

[andromache]

You're right. It's not nationalism to acknowledge that there might be different schools of training in different places. I am sure you've heard of the famed "Japanese knee bend", too, unless that's somehow nationalistic.

Not sure why it's hard to acknowledge that someone's choreographic methods might differ based on where they trained their art, either. If a Korean skater works with a Ugandan choreographer who trained in Antarctica, I think it might be reasonable to assume the Korean skater's program might contain some Antarctican influence. I will grant that choreography and a person's knowledge of it is likely ever-evolving, however.

There are different schools everywhere, within countries, and many schools have experts who all learned their art from different places. There can be different methods/influences within individual schools. It's much, much more complicated than "X country is like this, Y country is like that."

Mishin's jump technique is very different from Eteri's. Mishin's skaters receive choreography from a number of choreographers and not all of them are Russian. Does Liza skate "in the Russian style"? And is how Liza skates AT ALL similar to how Alina Z. skates? Gracie Gold was trained by a Russian coach and received several programs from Marina Zueva - did Gracie have a "Russian style" in her jumps and choreography?

It is very difficult to boil down any single athlete to a single "nationality" of influence. The one exception to this would probably be the Chinese pairs style - for decades, they have received choreo from the same choreographer (Lori) and were all coached by the same coach who created the program (Yao Bin). And now Hongbo Zhao is in charge, and he learned from Yao Bin.

As for the "Japanese knee bend" - I am interested to learn if there is a specific basic skills program for children in Japan that has knee bend as a major focus, as the vast majority of Japanese skaters do seem to have better knee bend than other singles' skaters, regardless of who their coach is once they begin competing at the junior and senior levels.

 

[andromache]

No, they dont have same style, but they have a style that is different from the Russian one.
So, for a russian audience, it is not even absurd to talk about north american style, or north american polish, and so on. Yep, those folks are different between them, but they are also different from russians.

Could you help me identify what Mishin and Eteri have in common in the style that their students have? And how is it different from, say, Alex O., who is a Russian coach who lives and works in North America?

 

[Manitou]

Could you help me identify what Mishin and Eteri have in common in the style that their students have? And how is it different from, say, Alex O., who is a Russian coach who lives and works in North America?

They call it "Russian soul". You must be Russian to understand it. I asked several Russians who kept bringing this term to me and they said that it's impossible to understand it for non-Russians
So I believe them. I think it can be described best in this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9tTUk5aqqc

With this English translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/kon039-kon-horse.html

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Really folks.....the North American comment was about the least interesting part of the interview seemed mostly intended to be a comment too :handw:

Are threads now 30 pages long :yay:

 

[el henry]

Really folks.....the North American comment was about the least interesting part of the interview seemed mostly intended to be a comment too :handw:

Are threads now 30 pages long :yay:

I’m afraid I must disagree, Sam.

I find the completely different mode of questioning (assuming facts not in evidence, as they would say in my line) to interfere with my understanding of the answers.

And I completely understand that those questions and answers are meant for an audience that is not me, I’m not that silly But if I must understand and respect that cultures’ acceptance of the wording of these questions, then they must understand and respect that culturally I can give less credence to the answers, as interesting as it is to read them.

ETA: and I would also add professionally, which may be unique to little old me. Leading questions bring bad answers, and when you in all probability get the same answer without it, why do it? Very distracting, but I realize that may just be an occupational hazard for me and my ilk

Respect and understanding of cultural differences is of course a two way street.:yes:

 

[vorravorra]

They call it "Russian soul". You must be Russian to understand it. I asked several Russians who kept bringing this term to me and they said that it's impossible to understand it for non-Russians
So I believe them. I think it can be described the best in this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9tTUk5aqqc

With this English translation: https://lyricstranslate.com/en/kon039-kon-horse.html

I am Russian and I am not sure I understand it, to be honest. Nice song, though, but this is like "Singing with the Stars", one professional singer and one celebrity. Severely limits what the professional singer can show. For Pelageya and Russian folk I think this is a much better example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFAuuaZZ3CQ

 

[Manitou]

I am Russian and I am not sure I understand it, to be honest. Nice song, though, but this is like "Singing with the Stars", one professional singer and one celebrity. Severely limits what the professional singer can show. For Pelageya and Russian folk I think this is a much better example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFAuuaZZ3CQ

I know it and I love it, but speaking of the Russian soul I think this one is even better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7339rGkpCo

 

[vorravorra]

I know it and I love it, but speaking of the Russian soul I think this one is even better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7339rGkpCo

Yes, I love this one too; we've organised a Pelageya fan club here :luv17: She has an amazing vocal range and has done some truly interesting work, less pop-folk and more true folk, as well as folk-rock. This is why I hate is to so much when people think Kalinka is what real Russian folk music is like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=380FkErsfyY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OC_YzUcHD8

 

[Manitou]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OC_YzUcHD8

Looks like yet another Russian version of "Beauty and the Beast". I didn't watch this one, but recently I fell in love with another: "I am Dragon" (Он – дракон). I recommend it to everyone. It's available on Amazon Prime. Or was several months ago.
What film is the one on the quoted video? I want to watch it.

 

[lavoix]

I found Elena rather cold in this interview. Ultimately, any athlete can leave their coach if they want, I didn't see her mention how Eteri reacted in a rather immature manner when Evghenia left her.

 

[dante]

They call it "Russian soul". You must be Russian to understand it. I asked several Russians who kept bringing this term to me and they said that it's impossible to understand it for non-Russians
So I believe them. I think it can be described best in this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9tTUk5aqqc

Indeed, there is such thing as Russian soul, as well as English or Chinese soul. But such things are imprinted on our minds at a very early age, and you generally can't express them to someone with just a song, more so performed by a professional singer (using Pelageya as a sample doesn't make sense to me). I like traditional music from various cultures, there's a lot of beautiful music, but only Russian songs sometimes make me feel a very special kind of connection and the weird feeling that I recall things happened long before I was born.

As for skating, I'd rather differentiate European vs American style. American programs on average are more powerful, but sometimes a bit plastic. European programs are deeper, more sensual or meaningful, but often lifeless. To me, this difference is very clear in Zhenya's old and new programs.